Miata is still the answer, right? Well, recent sales figures suggest otherwise.
For the entire month of June, Mazda sold 776 Miatas. In that same amount of time, Toyota sold 1500 GR86s.
This trend of the GR86 outselling the Miata isn’t just localized to June, however, as Toyota sold 7467 GR86s while Mazda sold just 4004 Miatas for the year …
Some more numbers, since I like those.
MX-5 Miata is down 27.4% to 2023.
GR86 is up 41.9% to 2023.
BRZ is down 43.7% to 2023
Make/Model - June/YTD through Q2 - % change since 2023
Chevrolet Camaro - 1732/5306 - <69.4%>
Chevrolet Corvette - 9338/17,914 - 5.2%
Ford Mustang - 13,737/27,444 - 7.7%
Nissan Z - ??/1457 - 50.8%
Toyota Supra - 272/1495 - <7.8%>
Subaru WRX - 1332/9295 - <39.5%>
J.A. Ackley said:Some more numbers, since I like those.
MX-5 Miata is down 27.4% to 2023.
GR86 is up 41.9% to 2023.
BRZ is down 43.7% to 2023
Interesting how largely the same cars (GR86 and BRZ) are experiencing vastly different sales-number trajectories. Maybe enthusiasts drawn to the twins perceive the Toyota to be more sporting? Maybe Subaru clientele aren't looking for a small car like this?
Just a personal thought: I wouldn't kick either one out of my garage, but I've thought that if I kept one long term, it would be the Subaru simply because Subaru technicians are used to flat-four motors and some of their quirks. Whereas in 5-10 years, a Toyota tech may think "damn, not one of those again."
In reply to Coniglio Rampante :
I thought that was interesting, too. I really thought GR86 and BRZ sales would be almost identical.
I guess not.
Mazda went through a model changeover in 2024 to what some call the ND3. Some exterior changes, entertainment, steering rack, LSD and traction control changes. Sometimes manufacturers make fewer outgoing year models. Not sure if that impacted numbers above.
Both are great cars for the track and well supported by the aftermarket and look great.
I shopped for both in late 2023...but could only find an MX5 Club Brembo in my area at a good price...the GR Manuals were marked 5k over sticker if you could find one. Maybe that's a sign of healthy GR demand?
I am very jealous of the back seat of the GR for more storage.
I know the ND3 is shipping, so I was surprised to see how much Miata sales are down. I know it's certainly hard to find a dealer with some inventory on the lot in my area. Autotrader shows 19 RFs and 41 soft tops within 500 miles of me. I know the soft top is available at a much lower price (in theory) because the RF isn't available in the base model.
One thing I came across a while back is that the take rate on automatics is higher on the RF than the soft top. Total is about 1 out of 3.
I've seen several articles about the Toyota/Subaru sales differences. Do you guys think a lot has to do with numbers of dealerships? I'd think there are a lot more and more convenient Toyota deadlers than Subaru
Sorry to get a bit off topic, but only 5300 Camaros YTD?
In reply to Coniglio Rampante :
I think part of it was subaru was a lot easier to deal with when the 2nd gen launched. I ordered mine, got it at msrp, and got the color choice I wanted. It was so easy. When shopping the toyota dealer wouldn't promise I'd get it at MSRP or that I'd even get one at all. It seemed like a lot of the early demand went to the Subaru camp.
By now all readers know I'm a GR86 bigot. A DD soft-top in Florida makes little sense if you plan on owning it a while, and already have enough MOHs surgery scars to show off. For like 6 months I shopped all of them that had a hard top; took a long time to pull the trigger. I'm over 25K miles in the GR86. I'm 5'11" and the Toy was just so much more comfy sitting in it, much roomier, not claustrophobic like the Miata. At Challenge '21 I met a Miata guy my size that had spent like $1K to get a seat lowering kit on his drivers side. I said. "Wat?" I have inches above my helmet, and with a 32" inseam I can stretch my legs out while driving.
And maybe the Toyoburu looks a little more pleasing than the sharp angles of the Miata. But, that is just a taste thing. To each his own.
And Mrs Frog likes it enough that we have taken 3,000 mile road trips. Especially how much luggage you can carry.
Forums tend to tell you the Toyota is more tail happy than the Subaru. I concur.
If they were making new S2000s... or even new NCs... might have been different.
As always YMMV
Even so, the more important sales number is the other cars using the engine. That's what has always kept the Miata reasonable (looking at you s2000). I also know how much effort was put into the 5.0 staying in the F150 so that the Mustang could have a reasonable performance engine.
If the *86 motor doesn't sell well in reasonable volumes, it's days could be numbered.
I haven't driven the GR, just the 1st and second gen BRZ, as well as short drive in an ND2. The Miata definitely felt more special with a more willing and vibrant engine, but I imagine the GR86/BRZ appeals to people who can't justify owning multiple cars. In most cases, a Miata is a second car that gets driven more for recreation than for commuting. The 4 seat cars are always going to be a little more useful on a daily needs basis.
Purple Frog said:Forums tend to tell you the Toyota is more tail happy than the Subaru. I concur.
I've read that in reviews as well. The Subaru supposedly has suspension tuned to produce more understeer when pushed compared to the Toyota.
If sales are the indicator of the answer then the answer is Ford F series. That can't be right.
The ND came out in 2016, it's an 8 year old design whereas the Toyota is only 2 years old. Sure, there are minor facelifts in the ND2 and ND3, but the general public doesn't really see any difference between them. Sales numbers always drop off a lot after the first year or two.
Porsche sales numbers came in:
Make/Model - Q2/YTD through Q2 - % change since 2023
All 911 - 4790/6720 - 18.94%
All 718 - 1315/2112 - 60.61%
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
ND Miata sales in the US don't follow that pattern, though. The best years have been 2017 and 2021. 2022 was the weakest for the platform, then 2023 was the third strongest. It's hard to actually draw a pattern from it.
No Time said:Purple Frog said:Forums tend to tell you the Toyota is more tail happy than the Subaru. I concur.
I've read that in reviews as well. The Subaru supposedly has suspension tuned to produce more understeer when pushed compared to the Toyota.
On the first gen, it was different rear away bars. That's it.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
ND Miata sales in the US don't follow that pattern, though. The best years have been 2017 and 2021. 2022 was the weakest for the platform, then 2023 was the third strongest. It's hard to actually draw a pattern from it.
I suspect the 2021 and 2022 numbers are thrown off significantly by covid. 2017 is probably due to the introduction of the RF, which is significantly different externally.
The usual industry pattern is very obvious in NA, NB, and NC sales numbers so I don't think this is a case of "Miatas are different".
If I were in the market, would I get a better deal on a BRZ than an GR86?
My biggest hangup with the BRZ/GR86 vs Miata, is the disproportionately terrible fuel economy.
In reply to Driven5 :
For comparison, the user-submitted fuel economy from Fuelly.com (there wasn't much data for 2024 models, so I picked 2023 instead):
2023 MX-5
2023 GR86
2023 BRZ
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
I specified NDs for a reason :) They're not following the usual trend, especially in Europe. I'll post the numbers later when I'm not on my phone.
alfadriver said:Even so, the more important sales number is the other cars using the engine. That's what has always kept the Miata reasonable (looking at you s2000). I also know how much effort was put into the 5.0 staying in the F150 so that the Mustang could have a reasonable performance engine.
If the *86 motor doesn't sell well in reasonable volumes, it's days could be numbered.
The FA and its derivatives are used in many of Subaru's vehicles. That said, I'd love to see the 3 cyl in the GR Yaris in the GT86.
I wonder if it's a production thing. You can't sell what doesn't exist. They may not produce what we think is rational due to their bigger picture. I wonder if that also explains 86 vs BRZ.
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