Is Pontiac gone?

P71 wrote: GMC trucks are to Chevy trucks like Cadillacs are to Chevys. Dumping GMC and/or Chevy trucks will result in sales losses, so it won't happen.

How is a GMC 1500 series different than a Chevy 1500 series?

I honestly think that my father in law owned his truck for two years before I noticed it was a GMC Sonoma, not a Chevy S-10.

The differences are amazing! [/sarcasm]

Tyler H wrote:

P71 wrote: GMC trucks are to Chevy trucks like Cadillacs are to Chevys. Dumping GMC and/or Chevy trucks will result in sales losses, so it won't happen.

How is a GMC 1500 series different than a Chevy 1500 series?

+1. I know of no difference outside of the grille.

It may be too expensive to pay off all the dealers http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/09/04/060904ta_talk_surowiecki

Maybe they sould go back to the way it used to be, Chevrolet= low cost car. Pontiac= first step up Buick (Olds)= next step up, doctors car. Cadialc= for those who have arived.

I keep wondering, why do they have so many models ?

DILYSI Dave wrote:

Tyler H wrote:

P71 wrote: GMC trucks are to Chevy trucks like Cadillacs are to Chevys. Dumping GMC and/or Chevy trucks will result in sales losses, so it won't happen.

How is a GMC 1500 series different than a Chevy 1500 series?

+1. I know of no difference outside of the grille.

GM did 'Realignment 2000' back in the 1990's. What this came down to was a wholesale change in marketing etc. Chevy was to be the 'work truck' brand and GMC the 'upscale truck' brand. The thinking was that if someone wanted a truck gussied up past the Chevy specs they were to be steered to a GMC dealer instead. GMC got lumped in with Pontiac and Buick, if you look around you'll see that GMC has almost no stand alone dealers and that's the way the brass at GM wanted it. I think that backfired to a certain extent as I see some pretty loaded up Chevys occasionally. Mechanically, they are exactly the same truck except for badging.

Now, GMC had a big ol' attitude bump. Back when GM was having major valve stem seal problems (springs would break and the seal come off of the guide), if we called the Buick or Chevy warranty folks they would generally assist with an out of warranty repair. I called GMC's version of that and was turned down flat 2500 miles out of warranty. I said something to the effect that 'Chevy has covered these' and the guy said 'We are GMC, not Chevy'. And GM wonders why people take a dim view of their products.

Having lots of models isn't a bad thing, but having every brand have every model doesn't really make sense to me. Aside from Pontiac being the only brand with a G8 based car right now, are there ANY brand specific models?

GMC's have more "stuff" standard, and more options available. Plus the "Denali" line. Go look at them side-by-side, especially the interiors. Yes, mechanically they are the same.

There are plenty of brand-specific models at GM. The SLR is far enough removed from the Corvette for both to be considered stand-alone. Pontiac has the Vibe (Toyota Matrix) and G8 (Holden Commodore). Technically the G6 'Vert and folding-hardtop are stand-alone as well. Caddy has the CTS, DTS, and STS. The Chevy Impala and Buick Regal share no body panels or interior designs even though they are both W-bodies. The Malibu is stand-alone.

In fact, the only obvious re-badgings are the Chevy Cobalt/Pontiac G5 and Chevy Aveo/Pontiac G3 along with the aforementioned Sierra/Silverado and Canyon/Colorado trucks.

mtn wrote:

Lugnut wrote: I had a good dinner conversation on this very topic. Reduce the redunancy. Keep Saturn and make it the entry-level GM, much like Scion. Keep Cadillac and allow the Escalade to be the one multi-branded vehicle. Kill Buick in the US (sure, it's big in China, but do they really care whether we have Buick here?). Kill Pontiac, kill Hummer, sell Saab for whatever they can get. Either kill GMC or keep GMC and move all trucks to GMC. So now we have Saturn, Chevrolet, GMC, and Cadillac. Saturn gets to keep the Aura and the Vectra and the Vue, move the Aveo/G3 to Saturn, loses the Sky. Chevy keeps the Malibu, loses the new Impala, gains the G8 and renames it Impala, keeps the Vette, gains the Solstice and new Camaro, loses all trucks. GMC gets all the trucks except the Escalade which is allowed as a special case for image purposes. Slim, trim, and each division has a purpose.

+1

+2

GMC trucks are to Chevy trucks like Cadillacs are to Chevys

My father has ALWAYS owned GMC's. If you ask him why, he'll say "I know they are the same truck, but I SWEAR that they get the parts with higher standards". Things like the sound quality of the bose stereo system, interior pieces, he seems to think that GMC gets the "better" parts while Chevy gets the "castoffs" (kind of like how lots of things you buy at Canadian Tire like batteries didn't meet certain standards but were still good enough to sell). I don't know what it is, but I've been in enough GM pickups to feel this small but quantifiable statement is justified.

HiTempguy wrote:

GMC trucks are to Chevy trucks like Cadillacs are to Chevys

My father has ALWAYS owned GMC's. If you ask him why, he'll say "I know they are the same truck, but I SWEAR that they get the parts with higher standards". Things like the sound quality of the bose stereo system, interior pieces, he seems to think that GMC gets the "better" parts while Chevy gets the "castoffs" (kind of like how lots of things you buy at Canadian Tire like batteries didn't meet certain standards but were still good enough to sell). I don't know what it is, but I've been in enough GM pickups to feel this small but quantifiable statement is justified.

Don't know if it still the same but years ago my father-in -law worked at the plant that built the S-10/Sonoma twins. Once a year GM had an open house for friends and families so we would go up there and take the tour. Both trucks would come down the same line with literally the only difference being the badging put on at the end. Yup, same identical truck.

I bet the GM bigwigs are hoping (behind closed doors) that the federal government lets them kill a few brands. The last time they did that (Olds), it was an expensive fiasco. Their hands have been tied by franchise laws. If they can dump these brands at no or little cost, they'll be gone tomorrow.

The desireable options offered in axed models can be made available on other existing models. You'll be able to get a Cobalt with red gauges and a big wing. Or a Chevy C1500 with a laptop-holding center console (for those professional-grade contractors).

If they get rid of both Pontiac and Saturn, The Solstace/Sky could very quickly become a Chevy. Note that they made Chevy Metros and Chevy Trackers for several years after the Geo name went away. Putting Solstace/Skys next to Corvettes and letting them share in the heritage may not be a bad idea from a marketing standpoint either.

In a strange way, letting Saturn go makes sense. It is no longer what it started out to be, and some GM brass never liked what it started out to be. Chevrolet and Saturn are both entry level brands. Why have two? They could make Saturn the new Geo, an umbrella name for imports brought in from different countries, but that didn't seem to work the first time they tried it. On the other hand, maybe GM needs to re-invent itself as what Saturn used to be to survive and get rid of the brass that is against that sort of thing.

As for Pontiac, again you have two. Performance Chevy vs. Performance Pontiac. You could have them build upscale sports sedans like BMW, but isn't that what Cadillac is trying to be now?

And GMC? Maybe it made sense at one time, but when you can order a Chevy with all the luxury options a GMC has, and you have a Cadillac SUV with a more prestigious nameplate than GMC, what's the point? Do you really need a middle range of trucks? Drop GMC and make a pickup version of the Escalade instead.

How about this? Scrap every project and car that GM makes as a conglomerate. Then make the following: a small car, a medium car, a large car, a small truck, a big truck, a fast sports car, and an SUV. Keep all the brands - hell, even bring back Oldsmobile. Then begin making all of the aforementioned cars for each of the brands. Change nothing except the badge. Cadillac can have leather. You can call the fast sports car the Corvette for Chevy. Don't even bother naming the rest of them - GM sucks at that. Just call them what they are - "Small Truck" for example.

Whadda ya think of that?

I have a better idea. Slap a Toyota badge on everything they sell and watch consumer perception pick the sales up. Man people are out of touch...

P71 wrote: I have a better idea. Slap a Toyota badge on everything they sell and watch consumer perception pick the sales up. Man people are out of touch...

They used to put Chevy Nova badges on Corollas.

P71 wrote: I have a better idea. Slap a Toyota badge on everything they sell and watch consumer perception pick the sales up. Man people are out of touch...

I'm not sure that would work. GM sold Cavaliers in Japan as Toyotas. They didn't sell many.

The real problem is right now, all of GM's branches have excellent cars I wouldn't want them to kill off, and I don't see fitting anywhere else.

All current GM models:
Buick: Lacrosse, Lucerne, Enclave.
Cadillac: CTS, STS, DTS, XLR, Escalade.
Chevrolet: Cobalt, Aveo, Malibu, Impala, Corvette, HHR, Equinox, Traverse, Trailblazer, Tahoe, Suburban, Silverado, Colorado, Avalance, and the Express (van).
GMC: Siera, Canyon, Acadia, Yukon, Envoy, Savana.
Pontiac: G5, G8, G6, Soltice, Torrent, Vibe, and the G3 is coming soon.
Saturn: Vue, Sky, Aura, Astra, Outlook.

One of these things is not like the other... Chevy. Of the 41 models GM has, Chevy has 15. Most of them are redundent. Chevy must die so the others may live.

Buick: The Lexus/MB fighter. Ditch the Lacrosse, replace it with something built on the Aura chassis. Do not make them sporty and group them with Caddy dealerships.
Cadillac: More sport. 3-series, 5-series, and 7-series fighters. The CTS and STS are fine, but the DTS is going to need some trimming.
Chevrolet: Corvette, but only as a legacy item. These will be sold a Cadillac dealerships.
GMC: Full-sized truck, compact truck, full-sized SUV, compact SUV based on a truck (Trailblazer), subcompact based on a car (take your pick from the 1/2 dozen GM has...). We can even keep the "Denali" package as a step up from the usual. Pontiac: Sporty. G8, G5, A Solstice that looks more like the G8/Sky, and a super-hot-hatch Astra. Throw the Malibu in there somehow, it's so good they can't afford to lose it (maybe as the G7?).
Saturn: Scion is right. Aveo, blander Astra (though you could also have a peppy one, too), HHR (reworked), some sort of "hip" sedan (Cobalt?).

So we lose Chevy and a bunch of crossover-SUVs. We're also down to a trim, slightly-overlapping-but-still-defined 25ish cars. I'll take it!

P71 wrote: The Malibu is stand-alone.

Other than the Aura and G6. And (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not sure here) the 9-3.

mtn wrote:

P71 wrote: The Malibu is stand-alone.

Other than the Aura and G6. And (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not sure here) the 9-3.

Oh E36 M3, I forgot Saab!

Well, GM will be selling Saab (good time for Fiat or Renault to get a foothold...), so my slip is harmless.

Osterkraut wrote: Pontiac: Sporty. G8, G5, A Solstice that looks more like the G8/Sky, and a super-hot-hatch Astra. Throw the Malibu in there somehow, it's so good they can't afford to lose it (maybe as the G7?).

Its called the G6.

mtn wrote:

Osterkraut wrote: Pontiac: Sporty. G8, G5, A Solstice that looks more like the G8/Sky, and a super-hot-hatch Astra. Throw the Malibu in there somehow, it's so good they can't afford to lose it (maybe as the G7?).

Its called the G6.

Hmmm... I thought to G6 was smaller.

Well then! The G6 is ugly and looks like Pontiac's plastic past. The Malibu could fit in with just a tiny bit of cosmetic work. Give it the Impala's SS version, and we've got ourselves a Pontiac!

Osterkraut wrote: One of these things is not like the other... Chevy. Of the 41 models GM has, Chevy has 15. Most of them are redundent. Chevy must die so the others may live.

Chevrolet is the golden child and can do no wrong. They'll never go away.

Just look at all the cars that have outdone the Corvette and gotten the axe shortly after:

Fiero (Axed due to "low sales volume" which sold more than Corvette) Turbo Trans Am (fastest Pontiac Buick ever built) Grans National Syclone Typhoon There's more than just these I'm sure.

Shawn

Ever so slight hijack, but I read something this morning that the Swedish government is not ruling out state ownership of Volvo and/or SAAB.

Snowdoggie wrote:

P71 wrote: I have a better idea. Slap a Toyota badge on everything they sell and watch consumer perception pick the sales up. Man people are out of touch...

They used to put Chevy Nova badges on Corollas.

I remeber those when I was a kid. My step-mom(what a bitch) got really piss'd off when I took my crans to the side of her nova. I think it was her first new car.