Is the Chevy Sonic the old Sentra SE-R reincarnated?

Adrian_Thompson wrote: The SE-R is a great car, but are we viewing it though rose tinted glasses. How's this for a magazine article suggestion. Might work for Classic Motorsport as well as GRM. Take hot hatch icons from the past. Say MkII Golf GTi, SE-R, Civic SI, R50/53 and compare them to either the Sonic or preferably the Fiesta ST which seems to be the current darling of the press. Find A1 condition stock examples of each and take them to either Ocala Grand Prix or the FIRM and compare times on an autocross and a small track. I think you will find that the modern cars wipe the floor with the older ones in objective terms, but not necessarily subjective.

I looked up some performance figures for the cars, because I was curious.

Motor Trend had the 91 SE-R with these numbers.

• 0-60mph - 7.6sec
• 1/4 mile time - 15.8 @88.3mph
• Slalom speed - 63.1mph
• 60-0 Braking - 128ft
• Lateral G's - 0.82g

This compares to R&T reviewed numbers of the Sonic LTZ

• 0-60mph - 7.8 sec
• 1/4 mile time - 16.2 @86.9mph
• Slalom speed - 69.4mph
• 60-0 Braking - 126ft
• Lateral G's - 0.84g

So despite being about 400lbs over the Sentra it seems to hold it's own. I think on a track it would be a closer match than most think. As clean SE-R's are getting thin on the ground I think the Sonic fills the void left by them nicely. Add in a little more boost, get it on a little diet and you've got something.

I like the Sonic RS and it has something over the non ST cars being debated - rear disc brakes. I know the argument light car, FWD, drums are fine, blah blah blah. I want four wheel discs on any car I purchase.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: The SE-R is a great car, but are we viewing it though rose tinted glasses. How's this for a magazine article suggestion. Might work for Classic Motorsport as well as GRM. Take hot hatch icons from the past. Say MkII Golf GTi, SE-R, Civic SI, R50/53 and compare them to either the Sonic or preferably the Fiesta ST which seems to be the current darling of the press. Find A1 condition stock examples of each and take them to either Ocala Grand Prix or the FIRM and compare times on an autocross and a small track. I think you will find that the modern cars wipe the floor with the older ones in objective terms, but not necessarily subjective.

Like this http://www.topgear.com/uk/tv-show/series-21/episode-1 but more objective less frivolity. Though frivolity is funny.

In reply to nocones: My Fiesta has a USABLE back seat.

I have had passengers back there.

Besides, how often do you have a passenger back there ?

I keep telling everyone that my Mazda 2 is the 83 GTI reincarnated. Up on a lift it looks eerily similar in layout too. I think it's a better handler though. Haven't had a chance to compare it and my 83 GTI IT car at an autocross yet. That will be fun.

Back to OP, I like the look of the little sedan but am a hatch guy all the way. That being said I prefer the Sonic sedan to the hatch. Back end of hatch looks awkward to me. Anyone look up CD or R&T road tests from the past to compare?

This would make a good comparison article BTW as was already mentioned.

t25torx wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: The SE-R is a great car, but are we viewing it though rose tinted glasses. How's this for a magazine article suggestion. Might work for Classic Motorsport as well as GRM. Take hot hatch icons from the past. Say MkII Golf GTi, SE-R, Civic SI, R50/53 and compare them to either the Sonic or preferably the Fiesta ST which seems to be the current darling of the press. Find A1 condition stock examples of each and take them to either Ocala Grand Prix or the FIRM and compare times on an autocross and a small track. I think you will find that the modern cars wipe the floor with the older ones in objective terms, but not necessarily subjective.

I looked up some performance figures for the cars, because I was curious. Motor Trend had the 91 SE-R with these numbers. * 0-60mph - 7.6sec * 1/4 mile time - 15.8 @88.3mph * Slalom speed - 63.1mph * 60-0 Braking - 128ft * Lateral G's - 0.82g This compares to R&T reviewed numbers of the Sonic LTZ * 0-60mph - 7.8 sec * 1/4 mile time - 16.2 @86.9mph * Slalom speed - 69.4mph * 60-0 Braking - 126ft * Lateral G's - 0.84g So despite being about 400lbs over the Sentra it seems to hold it's own. I think on a track it would be a closer match than most think. As clean SE-R's are getting thin on the ground I think the Sonic fills the void left by them nicely. Add in a little more boost, get it on a little diet and you've got something.

There's also the difference 24 years of tire technology makes in this comparison. I know which car I would rather commute in, but just comparing performance numbers the SE-R was a pretty fun/potent package.

vwcorvette wrote: I keep telling everyone that my Mazda 2 is the 83 GTI reincarnated. Up on a lift it looks eerily similar in layout too. I think it's a better handler though. Haven't had a chance to compare it and my 83 GTI IT car at an autocross yet. That will be fun. Back to OP, I like the look of the little sedan but am a hatch guy all the way. That being said I prefer the Sonic sedan to the hatch. Back end of hatch looks awkward to me. Anyone look up CD or R&T road tests from the past to compare? This would make a good comparison article BTW as was already mentioned.

the biggest complaint I've had with my Sonic hatch, is the vacuum effect the rear hatch shape creates … I've never had a rear window get covered with dust / spray as this one does … the little flat lip spoiler that's there to help with this problem doesn't do squat … or maybe it does, and things would be even worse without it … hard to imagine it being worse … plus I'm pretty sure the shape contributes to the lower gas milage of the hatch v. the sedan

About 5 years ago I was looking for this car. I wanted a cheap little econo-hatch that was new enough to last me a long time, but sporty enough to keep me entertained. In 2010, I was looking at 2008 models. Under 40k miles, under $10k, manual, hatchback, ~30 mpg, not-corolla handling. I looked at overpriced Golfs, yawn-worthy Versas, okay Fits, and fugly 2nd-gen Focuses (Foci?). Then I found this.

2008 Saturn Astra. 15k miles. Manual. What the berkeley is an Astra? Basically a carbon-copy of the Vauxhall/Opel Astra. They sold it for 1.5 years until GM orphaned it. If you've ever rented a cheap economy car in Europe and thought "wow, this thing handles", that's what this thing feels like. It's not crazy sporty, but surprising firm and responsive. GM got lazy and changed basically nothing from the European model. Probably for the best.

Oh, and it regularly beats a Sonic turbo at the local SCCA in H-stock

The Sonic barely keeps up with the nearly 25 year old SE-R, let alone sharing the relative bang-for-the-buck performance and equipment that largely made the SE-R so notable in comparison to its contemporaries...Aside from generally not sucking to drive, the Sonic bears little resemblance to a modern SE-R equivalent, IMHO.

I'll just leave this here.

mazdeuce wrote: Also take the current bottom of the barrel. Something like a manual Versa sedan and see how it compares. It's interesting to see how our old heroes compare to new heroes, but also to current crap. Sort of a re-do of the famous minivan article from the past.

Please do this. When you do make sure the bottom of the barrel car is something like a base Fiesta, Fiat 500, xB or something else that the SCCA in their infinite lack of wisdom has ruled too dangerous to austocross stock

mazdeuce wrote: Also take the current bottom of the barrel. Something like a manual Versa sedan and see how it compares. It's interesting to see how our old heroes compare to new heroes, but also to current crap. Sort of a re-do of the famous minivan article from the past.

I totally agree with this as a great idea for an article in my favorite magazine! I drove a Sonic RS 1.4T hatch the same day as the FR-S and I really liked it. If I "needed" more practicality or better MPG's it might be in my driveway instead of the FR-S. Heck, if SWMBO takes the FR-S in a few years I might pick up a Sonic...

How does the Fiesta ST fit in this equation ?

Adrian_Thompson wrote: The SE-R is a great car, but are we viewing it though rose tinted glasses. How's this for a magazine article suggestion. Might work for Classic Motorsport as well as GRM. Take hot hatch icons from the past. Say MkII Golf GTi, SE-R, Civic SI, R50/53 and compare them to either the Sonic or preferably the Fiesta ST which seems to be the current darling of the press. Find A1 condition stock examples of each and take them to either Ocala Grand Prix or the FIRM and compare times on an autocross and a small track. I think you will find that the modern cars wipe the floor with the older ones in objective terms, but not necessarily subjective.

I've got an R53 and I have a 54,000 mile A2 GTI that could be tested....

iceracer wrote: How does the Fiesta ST fit in this equation ?

As the winner takes all

It's smaller, more expensive, lighter, handles better. It's different. I think a Sonic 1.4 is way more comparable to a 1.0 Fiesta than an ST.

Holy crap you guys were right these things are pretty dang cheap. http://poconos.craigslist.org/cto/4913355402.html

Wow, a brand new turbo manual hatchback with attractive wheels already added for 11k? That's kinda great.

My brother spent about that much on a new 09 accent that's nowhere near as cool.

That one looked Ike the best deal to me too, most were about 13k and without the mods. If I had any money I'd be checking that out. And that surprises me as a former owner of a Fiesta and two focuses. But I think this would be a heck of a lot of fun especially if the tunes really wakes it up like they say they do.

I think the Sonic RS hatch has a ton going for it. The hatchback design, good fuel economy, available with three pedals, and that tune mentioned earlier in the thread for cheap make it more attractive. Someone I work with has one in black and it looks really cool except for that low hanging front end. He tells me averages a consistent 35 mpg and sometimes hovers closer to 40 mpg.

Guy who works for me bought a left over 2013 1.8 manual for something like 12k otd. Cheap for anything and good value for a car that's pretty fun to toss around.

This sort of thing could make a good magazine article. Finding the modern replacement to the vintage hot hatch or 3-box or whatever.

wbjones wrote:

the biggest complaint I've had with my Sonic hatch, is the vacuum effect the rear hatch shape creates … I've never had a rear window get covered with dust / spray as this one does … the little flat lip spoiler that's there to help with this problem doesn't do squat … or maybe it does, and things would be even worse without it … hard to imagine it being worse … plus I'm pretty sure the shape contributes to the lower gas milage of the hatch v. the sedan

My Reply,

Actually that little flap lip is doing what it was designed to do. It causes turbulence which also gets the back window dirty. But by doing so it reduces the "station wagon effect" and that improves fuel mileage. With less "station wagon effect" or vacuum to pull to pull around, the less drag your ride has to deal with.

In the case of my Sport Fit, it gets four mpg better mileage on the highway than the standard Fit. However the Fit has a much cleaner back window. The difference, that little flap lip. For 4mpg, I'll use the wiper and washer more.

And without that flap, the mpg difference in Sonic models would probably be even larger than what you have now. (Sorry, I didn't do the cuts correctly to show the difference in your thoughts and mine!)

maschinenbau wrote: About 5 years ago I was looking for this car. I wanted a cheap little econo-hatch that was new enough to last me a long time, but sporty enough to keep me entertained. In 2010, I was looking at 2008 models. Under 40k miles, under $10k, manual, hatchback, ~30 mpg, not-corolla handling. I looked at overpriced Golfs, yawn-worthy Versas, okay Fits, and fugly 2nd-gen Focuses (Foci?). Then I found this. 2008 Saturn Astra. 15k miles. Manual. What the berkeley is an Astra? Basically a carbon-copy of the Vauxhall/Opel Astra. They sold it for 1.5 years until GM orphaned it. If you've ever rented a cheap economy car in Europe and thought "wow, this thing handles", that's what this thing feels like. It's not crazy sporty, but surprising firm and responsive. GM got lazy and changed basically nothing from the European model. Probably for the best. Oh, and it regularly beats a Sonic turbo at the local SCCA in H-stock

Is the Astra plastic? ECU supported by HP tuners?

So, merely for information, which trim levels have the 1.4? LTZ and RS?