Is there such a thing as a "grown up" Evo or WRX alternative?

thewheelman wrote: Look for a 2007 Mazdaspeed6, or a 2006 that has had the timing chain tensioner TSB performed. If a compression check looks good, buy it, and immediately change the oil to Rotella T6. It'll be an awesome car. I had a 2006 for 7 years, and it never left me stranded. I had the timing chain TSB performed at 69,900 miles (Mazda extended the warranty to 70,000 miles). Other than replacing the thermostat, and two front lower control arms, there were no issues with the car that weren't caused by me. They sound great with a Magnaflow exhaust, and a tune really changes the character of the car.

White or Blue bottle?

Flight Service wrote:

thewheelman wrote: Look for a 2007 Mazdaspeed6, or a 2006 that has had the timing chain tensioner TSB performed. If a compression check looks good, buy it, and immediately change the oil to Rotella T6. It'll be an awesome car. I had a 2006 for 7 years, and it never left me stranded. I had the timing chain TSB performed at 69,900 miles (Mazda extended the warranty to 70,000 miles). Other than replacing the thermostat, and two front lower control arms, there were no issues with the car that weren't caused by me. They sound great with a Magnaflow exhaust, and a tune really changes the character of the car.

White or Blue bottle?

T6 is blue bottle (the 5W-40 stuff).

My brother looked into the Legacy GT and found that some bearing (turbo?) was made of brass, disintegrated, sent brass shavings everywhere, and killed everything in short order. They all do this. He ended up with the N.A. 6 cylinder Outback wagon 3.6R and loves it. For your price range I think you would be looking at a 3.0R six cylinder Legacy. Bonus, they make flat six Porsche noises.

To me, the MS6 is like any other car out there. It has its problems and the community has addressed them all.

I'll chime in again to clarify a few things about my MS6.

1) the timing chain rattle on start up is the VVT (Variable Valve Timing) unit going out. I did the repair myself with $400 worth of parts (VVT, Chain, tensioner, all washers etc.) from Edge Autosport. I buy all of my OEM Mazda stuff from them as well.

2) my car did puff smoke at my first open track day. I switched to the T6 5w40 and it doesn't smoke anymore. I didn't do anything else with it and my car is at about 98,000 miles.

3) I don't think the car was made to launch like mad. I've seen the broken center diff pics online and I just don't need to launch it hard. That's just me. You can use a CX-7 center diff as a replacement and/or use the upgraded bearing caps. The failure point looks to be the cast aluminum caps and the replacements are made of billet machined aluminum. (It requires T-case removal)

4) The rear differential bushing is a piece of crap and will need to be upgraded. I think this is where people would have a twisting read diff and failed rear axel's. You might as well do the lower motor pitch mount as well. I used the $240 Corksport replacement bushing two years ago and its been punished without issue ever since.

5) The stock tune on the cars sucked and there were several early TSB's to correct a host of problems from the factory. Remember, this is an early Direct Injection motor before it became all the rage. I don't know if Mazda ever figured it out, but I believe Cobb has and I run their stock pre-programmed tunes. These cars quickly gained a bad reputation and people that paid a bunch of $ for a turbo AWD Mazda were pissed. That's why I believe no one likes them to this day.
I did two full track days with a bone stock car on all season tires. I thought it was a blast.

My car now has the Cobb AP, Corksport goodies: their upgraded fuel pump internals, high flow top mount intercooler, catless downpipe (that I had thermal heat coated) and full intake. The car pulls all the way through redline and I don't give it a second thought. If you are on the highway and you wind it out through 3rd and 4th gear with your foot to the floor, you'll be sweeping past 115 mph shifting into 5th and the car still pulls like mad. All 3 kids squeal with delight as we hit warp speed. I've never personally tried it, but I think the car is good to about 160 mph.

rslifkin wrote:

Flight Service wrote:

thewheelman wrote: Look for a 2007 Mazdaspeed6, or a 2006 that has had the timing chain tensioner TSB performed. If a compression check looks good, buy it, and immediately change the oil to Rotella T6. It'll be an awesome car. I had a 2006 for 7 years, and it never left me stranded. I had the timing chain TSB performed at 69,900 miles (Mazda extended the warranty to 70,000 miles). Other than replacing the thermostat, and two front lower control arms, there were no issues with the car that weren't caused by me. They sound great with a Magnaflow exhaust, and a tune really changes the character of the car.

White or Blue bottle?

T6 is blue bottle (the 5W-40 stuff).

that works well in a VQ30 and the 1.8 Miata motor....ask me how I know.

I wanted to chime in on the Subaru Legacy GT specB. We bought ours new in 2007 and drove it until last summer when I sold it with 143k for quite a bit more than your budgeted amount. Original clutch, original turbo. I had just spent a bit of money replacing suspension and bushings as I planned to keep it but the kids were getting too big to fit comfortably.

Should you head down this path look for the '06 through '09 as these used the larger R-180 diff as well as the 6 speed manual transmission from the STi without the temperature sensors or active diffs. All specB's used the forged aluminum control arms and Bilstein struts which gave them their name. Other than wheel bearings (two replaced under warranty by Subaru) this car gave us 8 years of trouble-free motoring.

I know its a bit of a porker but what about a Taurus SHO or Lincoln MKS?

In reply to Petrolburner:

My brother looked into the Legacy GT and found that some bearing (turbo?) was made of brass, disintegrated, sent brass shavings everywhere, and killed everything in short order. They all do this.

I've also heard of numerous cases of this happening. The turbo goes, and takes the motor with it shortly thereafter. It leaves me scratching my head, as other than a real catastrophic failure, bad turbos rarely kill the engines in other turbo cars. Yet, the turbo on the Legacy GT is treated like a very expensive preventative maintenance item. I'm scarred to use my "looks perfectly good with no shaft play but high mileage" turbo with my fresh rebuild. Shouldn't most/ all turbo bearing derbis just drop into the pan and get filtered out?

Flight Service wrote: that works well in a VQ30 and the 1.8 Miata motor....ask me how I know.

That stuff works well in everything that doesn't require 0w20 or 10w60. At least in my opinion.

I've run it in the wife's old Acadia, her old X3 3.0, the aforementioned Mazdaspeed6, my 2004 996 C2, my current Golf R, and I'll use it in the wife's new-to-her A6 3.0T when the time comes.

I'm done threadjacking and whoring Rotella T6, I swear...

docwyte wrote: Allroad isn't a track car. They're also the most maintenance intensive Audi ever built.

Have you owned or driven one? Or are you repeating "internet wisdom"? I owned mine for two years and replaced the front air bag shocks and had the timing belt service done. No electric fails. No wheel bearings. No turbos. No differential failures. Just an absurdly overbuilt car that gets a new timing belt every 70 thousand miles.

Compared with the litany of failures and weak spots plaguing the subarus and mazdas that everyone is excited for I really really don't get it.

And don't think I'm just being a VAG fanboi, yes I've owned several. But I've driven lots of Subarus and find them woefully lacking. The Mazda6 I took out last year was a slightly more attractive Camry as far as driving feel.

>rant off<

I've owned two. Plus a b5 a4, two b5 s4's, two b6 a4's, two UrS4's, a b8 s4 and more that I'm sure I'm forgetting.

An allroad isn't a track car. They very maintenance intensive, lots of parts that fail. Often.

I'm a huge VAG fan but I wouldn't recommend an allroad as a winter DD to anyone not willing to do all their own work and have the time to do so.

Plus it'll suck on the track so that kinda tosses it from the running anyways.

2009 to 2015 Acura TL SH-AWD 6spd. Great car. 305 HP Great Engine. Fantastic Shifter. Amazing handling. Drove a lot of miles in a 2015. Torque vectoring is amazing. Makes the car feel much lighter than it is. Neutral Handler. Flies under the radar. The older ones are pretty ugly though.

This popped up on Daily Turismo, and I immediately thought of this thread.

Volvo V70R on eBay

midniteson wrote: 2009 to 2015 Acura TL SH-AWD 6spd. Great car. 305 HP Great Engine. Fantastic Shifter. Amazing handling. Drove a lot of miles in a 2015. Torque vectoring is amazing. Makes the car feel much lighter than it is. Neutral Handler. Flies under the radar. The older ones are pretty ugly though.

How did I not know this existed! Cool car!

The Acura and the SHO/MKS don't particularly strike me as capable on the track (plus they're all way above my budget), anybody Auto-X'd or tracked one of them?

@MadScientistMatt, that V70R is kinda interesting, I've only ever seen them with slushboxes out here.

You're going to have a really hard time finding a dual purpose awd winter DD/track toy. Your best bet is to keep your MR2 for track duties and buy an SUV for the winter.

Or sell the MR2, the truck, the 996 and any other vehicle and buy a 996 Turbo.

I'm a little surprised that any of these get consideration over a BMW 3 series for the things you want to do. The XDrive AWD cars are a different animal from the E46 AWD cars.

Acura TL SH-AWD

Audi Allroad

Audi S4

Ford Taurus SHO

Volvo V70R

Mazdaspeed 6

Subaru Legacy GT

docwyte wrote: You're going to have a really hard time finding a dual purpose awd winter DD/track toy. Your best bet is to keep your MR2 for track duties and buy an SUV for the winter.

I think that's pretty much the conclusion of this and the WRX thread, although I'm still thinking about replacing the MR2 with something with a Mazda badge and an actually functioning aftermarket. Or an E36 M3.

docwyte wrote: Or sell the MR2, the truck, the 996 and any other vehicle and buy a 996 Turbo.

That would've worked until my wife finally drove the 996 (after we owned it for over a year). She took to that like a duck to water, which is highly unusual for her. She even said it was the first time she jumped into a car and felt comfortable immediately.

Unfortunately she doesn't drive a manual and I'm not buying a 996 turbo with an automatic.

Petrolburner wrote: My brother looked into the Legacy GT and found that some bearing (turbo?) was made of brass, disintegrated, sent brass shavings everywhere, and killed everything in short order. They all do this. He ended up with the N.A. 6 cylinder Outback wagon 3.6R and loves it. For your price range I think you would be looking at a 3.0R six cylinder Legacy. Bonus, they make flat six Porsche noises.

All the journal bearing turbos use brass bearings, at least that i have seen. I have worn out 2 turbos' bearings and never seen any brass bits anywhere.

Maybe there is another issue at play? I have a few subaru owners in the family that dont fix it until it breaks. Oil and filter changes once a year if it convenient... Maybe thats where his came from?

V50 AWD Wagons are starting to show up and for not that bad of money!

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/london/hard-to-find-2005-volvo-v50-t5-6spd-awd-wagon-for-sale/1123272931?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/city-of-toronto/2005-volvo-v50-t5-all-wheel-drive-sport-wagon/1131592662?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

NGTD wrote: V50 AWD Wagons are starting to show up and for not that bad of money! http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/london/hard-to-find-2005-volvo-v50-t5-6spd-awd-wagon-for-sale/1123272931?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/city-of-toronto/2005-volvo-v50-t5-all-wheel-drive-sport-wagon/1131592662?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

These just went on my list, thanks.

In reply to NGTD:

I'm glad they'll listen to someone when that suggestion is made

In reply to captdownshift:

I looked at them a couple of years ago when I ended up buying my Golf. They are good looking and intriguing cars. They were at the top end of my budget back then, even with tons of mileage.

NGTD wrote: In reply to captdownshift: I looked at them a couple of years ago when I ended up buying my Golf. They are good looking and intriguing cars. They were at the top end of my budget back then, even with tons of mileage.

A friend of mine from the Volvo club world bought one of these last year. Coincidentally, it was a car in Florida that I was this >< close to buying a few months earlier.

It's a nice car, but I don't know about making one track-worthy. The prep required to do so would make the car unpleasant for DD duty.

Additionally, my mother has a V50 and I've spent a good amount of time driving it. They're rather small inside. About the same as my '03 Jetta Wagon and the cargo area is smaller as the Jetta is more of a traditional "box" back there.

In reply to Ian F:

Evos and STis aren't exactly huge inside. I don't know how but this thread really turned to soft, high highpoint awd luxo barges for the most part.