Is there such thing as a cheap E36 M3?

Thinking about picking up an E36 M3 after the SVT Focus sells. They seem far too cheap (especially the sedans), and that makes me nervous.

What's going to cause a huge problem and big money on a car in the high 100k mi range? What do the savvy buyers know that I don't? Has this been covered before when I wasn't paying attention?

We have several good independent BMW shops in town, and I actually have some friends in parts at the dealership, plus a couple good friends into BMWs that used to work for the independents. I'm not afraid of doing maintenance and repairs on my own, but this will be a daily, and it will rack up some highway miles pretty quick.

I'll be leaving it pretty much un-modded. At least for a while.

So, advice on a 'cheap' E36 daily will be greatly appreciated.

Typically, the only sedans that sell for "cheap" are automatics. More were made with autos than manuals, and the latter are prized possessions.

I've owned 2 different e36 M3s, both 1995 models, and loved them. I got to 100k on one of them and it ran like a top.

Far as I know, cheap E36 M3 mostly comes from China.

I've been accused of being a cheap E36 M3 a few times.

I LOVED mine, and will buy another some day. Count on spending a bit of money at the front end to make it an awesome, reliable daily. I'd do the cooling system first, since that can leave you stranded. Bushings and dampers will freshen the ride, as will good tires. Then enjoy a practical car that is very capable in the twisties, easily averages 26mpg, and looks good. Interiors don't always age well, but the seats are very comfortable. I do miss mine...

Nathan

Yes, it usually involves lots of cheap food.

Junkyard_Dog wrote: I've been accused of being a cheap E36 M3 a few times.

as have I

I am a confirmed cheap E36 M3

Cheap means different things to different folks, but these cars are at the bottom of their depreciation curve. As others have said, factor in for some deferred maintenance - nothing terribly difficult or expensive - and then just drive and smile.

njansenv, what does 'doing the cooling system' consist of? Are we talking about a coolant flush, or water pump, or something in between? Do you remember what ballpark the cost was in when you did it?

Aside from maintenance - or perhaps because of a lack thereof - is there anything that might bite me in the ass down the line? I ask because I was one of the luck SVT Focus owners to grenade a timing belt pulley and eat all the valves. Is there a failure like that with E36s that is a known but rare issue? (I'm trying to avoid something like that again.)

Basically, what are the issues with high-miles cars?

Is that one of the BMW's that is subject to "The Money Shift"?

Just do it all at once. Water pump/Rad/Expansion tank/Thermostat/Aluminum t-stat Housing/Upper and lower rad hoses/Belts/Idler pulley/Engine fan (or fan delete)/2 gallons of BMW coolant. That should run you around $500 and take no more than 4 hours to complete (half that if you know what you're doing, these things are pretty easy to work on. The hardest part is bleeding the system. Once you do it with the updated parts you are probably good for 100k+.

These kits from Bimmerzone have almost everything you need for a great price:

http://www.bimmerzone.com/parts-special-Cooling.htm

Doing the coolant system means a flush at best... replacing the plastic water neck and plastic capped radiator with all-metal versions at worst.

These guys are a great resource for BMW parts. If you search by chassis code, they often have packages put together for things like cooling system re-do's.

http://getbmwparts.com/

Yes, those cars will eat valvetrains if you shift from 4th to 3rd at redline and cause an overrev. Step one - pay some damn attention when you shift at those speeds. Step two - replace the sloppy old shifter components. A $15 selector rod coupler, $30 delrin shifter bushing, and $75 modified M-Roadster shifter will transform the shift feel (from spoon in a bowl of noodles to rifle-bolt) and pretty much eliminate the risk of the money shift.

Right on. Good information.

What else?

This will probably get me flamed, but I've had both, and as a street car, I liked the SVT Focus better. The M3 was better on track (obviously), but the Focus was just as enjoyable on the street, nearly as much fun on track, and quite a bit cheaper to own.

Issues with the M3 will likely include: electrical gremlins, check engine lights, electrical gremlins, cooling system (discussed above), electrical gremlins, worn suspension bushings, electrical gremlins, window regulators, and electrical gremlins.

Did I mention electrical gremlins?

I may have had a bad example (which would be surprising considering the low mileage and dealer maintenance), but I lost all patience with the car when I was having to deal with more than one electrical gremlin per week. I'm one of those guys who can't stand for something not to be working or to have a warning light illuminated, so this was a deal breaker for me. YMMV.

I just bought one a month or so ago. Not a great idea considering the couple feet of snow we've got since then. I paid $8k for a 63k mile car largely in great shape. I've spent about $1000 for repair/maintenance items since then- passenger window motor/regulator, driver door seal, front rub strip, windshield trim, rear window trim, various other trim pieces. I just picked up the butterfly brace and Mz3 shifter (best low buck shifter upgrade ~$58 at getbmwparts.com). Parts are generally reasonable- except for one: the door seals are absolutely outrageous: $320 was the best price I could find.

I guess what I have after a month and a half is: Fun, quick car that requires maintenance. I can't believe that for how much the handling is lauded, how slow the steering is and how "soupy" the shifter is (ref above post). My WRX hasn't needed jack in 7 years and 90k miles and is worth about what the M3 is.

I haven't tracked it yet, but hope to soon. Also, I think the money shift is from 5th to 2nd- apparently the Turner motorsports transmission mount enforcers (TME's) really help the cause.

I think you got a real bad one, Billy. Part of the problem is the hyperactive warning light system that won't stop nagging you about things that you know aren't hooked up and don't care, or you've modified intentionally. I've dealt with plenty of warning lights in the 3.5 years I've owned my E36, but the only ACTUAL problem has been a corroded brake light socket, which honestly could happen to any car. I get an OBC warning every time I start it about stuff like the headlights (hid kit shows the wrong voltage), missing outside temp. gauge (wire broke when I pulled the bumper, I'll fix it when it warms up), etc. The only CELs I've ever had were a couple EVAP codes when I didn't tighten the gas cap, and one random cat/secondary O2 code on a below zero day.

I really think once you spend 800 bucks or so (beyond the initial purchase on an otherwise solid E36) and go through the bushings, cooling system, and shifter you can't come close for a daily driver in that price range. I wish you could drive mine, it feels so tight and buttoned down, runs so smooth you'd have a hard time believing it's a 12+ year old, 128k car. I plan to DD it for at least 3 or 4 more years, hopefully longer.

Brust wrote: Parts are generally reasonable- except for one: the door seals are absolutely outrageous: $320 was the best price I could find.

This was my experience with BMW motorcycles, too. Most of the parts (and maintenance) makes you wonder where the reputation for being expensive comes from, but every now and then there's that outlier that makes your wallet hurt.

Good information. Thanks.

I love the SVT Focus. It's pretty much my ideal daily driver. But I'm not willing to gamble another exploded pulley and borked valvetrain in another 40k miles, and I'm simply unwilling to change the pulleys and belt at such an unreasonable interval for a modern car.

My plan until now has been a Duratec ZX3/5 with an SVT suspension swap and maybe some engine bolt-ons, but these M3s are just too damn cheap to ignore.

Brust wrote: I haven't tracked it yet, but hope to soon. Also, I think the money shift is from 5th to 2nd- apparently the Turner motorsports transmission mount enforcers (TME's) really help the cause.

UUC makes those, not turner. I run straight UUC urethane mounts without the TMEs, the TMEs aren't really necessary with a urethane mount. I don't mind the (very minimal) added vibration of the urethane mounts, I'd recommend that over the stock mounts with TMEs (the urethane is generally cheaper and better performing).

Since I'm not really in the position to buy immediately anyway, I'll go ahead and spill the beans. This is the one that got me thinking really hard about an M3 sedan.

http://r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=136100

What do those of you with some experience think about that car specifically?

Unless you all think this is a screaming bargain. In which case: dibs.

E36 M3 maintenance and repair stories don't really scare me because I've already owned a Ford Contour, and the M3 has to be easier to work on.

I love my Contour, BTW, but CELs, window regulators, water pump... It all just sounds familiar, and yet once you sort these things out the car is reliable and extremely enjoyable to drive.

alex wrote: Since I'm not really in the position to buy immediately anyway, I'll go ahead and spill the beans. This is the one that got me thinking really hard about an M3 sedan. http://r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=136100 What do those of you with some experience think about that car specifically? Unless you all think this is a screaming bargain. In which case: dibs.

That car has me rethinking my next DD. :)

With regards to the cooling system, I "think" it was ~$500. But it was EASY to do. I'm always amazed when I work on these cars at how easy things go together and come apart.... knock on wood. I'm in the midst of a C4 corvette purchase, and I fully expect that working on it won't quite be the same.

I should temper my post with the fact that CEL's and other psuedowarning lights don't keep me up at night. I only had the CEL for O2 sensors (there are 4....), but that was it. There was a persistent "coolant low" warning too.

Nathan