is this challenge legal?

Yea, it sounds like with some creativity with a pen, paper and a few wrenches, you'll be just fine. Bring it on!

Per (Challenge Ogre)

SVreX wrote: I'm missing your point. He bought the parts truck for $200. He sold $600 off it. He's over budget, but he won't ever be able to reclaim more than the $200 he spent, regardless of how much he pocketed or which parts are on the truck. How's he gonna lower his budget by having less on the "good" truck?

What I am trying to figure out:

Did he start with buying the Good Truck for $2009, buy a 200 dollar parts truck and THEN sell 600 dollars worth of parts off of it which he then poured back into the Good Truck? If that's true, then yeah, he's over budget.

But I couldn't see where he'd spent 2009 dollars. If I buy a GRM car for 500 bucks (because that's all my wife will let me spend) then buy a parts car for 200 dollars, (that's 700 dollars total budget spent) then sell 1309 dollars worth of E36 M3 off the parts car, I have not exceeded my budget. I have not exceeded Recoup. I've just used my parts car for some quick cash. I could have done it and not counted it in my budget at all, because it's none of GRM's business where my "initial" 2009 dollars came from It looks to me, at a glance, that that is exactly what's happened here. The parts truck has been used to finance the build, but isn't necessarily exceeding recoup limit.

But without an itemized list of what's been bought and sold and for what price, it'll be hard to determine if that's the case.

no imput on challenge legalness... but I REALY am enjoying your build... REALY makes me want to talk to mema (wifes grandma) about getting her s10hasn't run in 3 or 4 years, was used more as a farm truck... but with some work would be super fun

therex wrote: What I am trying to figure out: Did he start with buying the Good Truck for $2009, buy a 200 dollar parts truck and *THEN* sell 600 dollars worth of parts off of it which he then poured back into the Good Truck? If that's true, then yeah, he's over budget. But I couldn't see where he'd spent 2009 dollars. If I buy a GRM car for 500 bucks (because that's all my wife will let me spend) then buy a parts car for 200 dollars, (that's 700 dollars total budget spent) then sell 1309 dollars worth of E36 M3 off the parts car, I have not exceeded my budget. I have not exceeded Recoup. I've just used my parts car for some quick cash. I could have done it and not counted it in my budget at all, because it's none of GRM's business where my "initial" 2009 dollars came from It looks to me, at a glance, that that is exactly what's happened here. The parts truck has been used to finance the build, but isn't necessarily exceeding recoup limit. But without an itemized list of what's been bought and sold and for what price, it'll be hard to determine if that's the case.

But you cannot recoup more off of any item than you spent on it. So - even though the parts vehicle wwas $200, and more than $200 was realized from selling parts, only $200 goes into the recoup budget.

Yes - for real, the other money goes into your pocket, but you cannot count it to the budget.

i still havent had a chance to sit down with a pen and paper and figure this out. ive been really busy with the family.

the way i set it up in my build thread was that i took money off the total expenditures as i sold stuff off the parts truck, therefore exceeding my recoup limit.

i dont know where i stand otherwise quite yet.

i do know that i plan to be at the challenge this year regardless, if i can aford to come.

hopefully this week i can get the budget stuff sorted out, as well as come up with a challenge price/parts list.

michael

GSmith wrote: But you cannot recoup *more* off of any item than you spent on it. So - even though the parts vehicle wwas $200, and more than $200 was realized from selling parts, only $200 goes into the recoup budget. Yes - for real, the other money goes into your pocket, but you cannot count it to the budget.

Yes, I realize this.

Which is why we need an itemized list before a determination can be made. Sounds like Duster will get it when he can. :-p

therex wrote: But I couldn't see where he'd spent 2009 dollars. If I buy a GRM car for 500 bucks (because that's all my wife will let me spend) then buy a parts car for 200 dollars, (that's 700 dollars total budget spent) then sell 1309 dollars worth of E36 M3 off the parts car, I have not exceeded my budget. I have not exceeded Recoup.

No, that's $500 total budget spent, which includes $200 worth of recoup claimed and $1109 additional money in your pocket which can't be used for Challenge budget purposes.

Dusterbd13: I'm still pretty convinced we can help you, if you put the numbers up. I agree with therex that you have probably not exceeded you budget.

the simplest way i now understand the recoup law is that you can only break even on parts cars. and profit is good, but you can only subtract from the actual budget to the break even point. not beyond.

SVreX wrote: No, that's $500 total budget spent, which includes $200 worth of recoup claimed and $1109 additional money in your pocket which can't be used for Challenge budget purposes.

Why not? Why can't I use the sale of stuff to finance the initial (not to exceed) $2009. What's the difference if I have a bake sale to make my 2009 dollars or sell parts off a car to make 2009 dollars. Either way I get 2009 dollars to start with, who cares where it comes from?

therex wrote:

SVreX wrote: No, that's $500 total budget spent, which includes $200 worth of recoup claimed and $1109 additional money in your pocket which can't be used for Challenge budget purposes.

Why not? Why can't I use the sale of stuff to finance the initial (not to exceed) $2009. What's the difference if I have a bake sale to make my 2009 dollars or sell parts off a car to make 2009 dollars. Either way I get 2009 dollars to start with, who cares where it comes from?

Why not? 'Cause dems da rules.

When I built my CRX, after I had zero'd out the parts car, I started selling parts off of the main car, and moving them over from the parts car. That way I was able to recoup some of the main car purchase as well.

That's retarded. Who cares where my 2009 dollars comes from? Any thing after that, sure. Are you telling me that if I bought a car for a dollar, sold it for 2009 dollars, that I couldn't use that money to start a GRM Challenge car?

My understanding of the recoup rule (and it's a good rule) is to keep "1 Red Paperclip" cars from competing, and I think that's a good rule. But this seems a little bit of an extreme reading of the rule. (And important for me, because that's how I intended to finance my 2009 dollars, if I ever get a damned GRM car off the ground).

I think it's to further the prevention of what you just said. The 1 red paperclip scenario.

I could easily sell un-needed parts off of my $2010 Challenger to recoup the ENTIRE purchase price, and shed a lot of weight in the process, and then dump that money back into the fund. That would leave me with a free car that runs 12s in the quarter, and $2010 to modify it further. Turns it into an accounting game rather than GRM ingenuity. So therefor, i would end up with a car that REALLY had $2960 (in my case) of my own money into it, rather than the $2010 outlined by the rules.

therex wrote: That's retarded. Who cares where my 2009 dollars comes from? Any thing after that, sure. Are you telling me that if I bought a car for a dollar, sold it for 2009 dollars, that I couldn't use that money to start a GRM Challenge car? My understanding of the recoup rule (and it's a good rule) is to keep "1 Red Paperclip" cars from competing, and I think that's a good rule. But this seems a little bit of an extreme reading of the rule. (And important for me, because that's how I intended to finance my 2009 dollars, if I ever get a damned GRM car off the ground).

Settle down, Beavis.

SVreX said "which can't be used for Challenge budget purposes." That means those dollars can't be put back into your Challenge budget as recoup, which has nothing to do with whether or not they can be spent on Challenge cars or parts. You could be under a freeway bridge giving ZJ's to get your spending money. Don't ask, don't tell. But if you buy a car for X dollars and net 3X by selling parts off of it, you can spend the 3X dollars on anything you want -- car parts, nice dinner with the wife, maybe even get yourself a ZJ instead of just giving them -- but you can only claim X dollars as recoup to the budget.

note: the ZJ reference comes from the movie "Beer Fest". it is included here for humorous intent. i am in no way suggesting that you have at any time given or received a ZJ under a freeway bridge or elsewhere.

Rex: You are getting your panties in a know over nothing. You are correct, no one cares where you get the money to finance your Challenger.

However, you can't list RECOUP money in excess of the amount spent on a specific purchase, nor in excess of $1005 for the whole project.

So, it looks like this:

Challenge car purchase $700. Parts car purchase $200. Parts sold off parts car $1500. Total spent $700. (700+200-200)

Challenge car purchase $200. Parts car purchase $700. Parts sold off parts car $1500. Total spent $200. (200+700-700)

Challenge car purchase $700. Parts car purchase $200. Parts sold off Challenge car $1500. Total spent $200. (700+200-700)

Challenge car purchase $700. Parts car purchase $200. Parts sold off parts car $150. Total spent $750. (700+200-150)

Challenge car purchase $200. Parts car purchase $700. Parts sold off challenge car $250, $1300 off parts car. Total spent $0. (200+700-200-700)

Challenge car purchase $400. Parts car purchase $700. Parts sold off challenge car $450, $1300 off parts car. Total spent $95. (400+700-1005 max recoup)

Its all in the bookkeeping, my friend.

^Oh durrr.... i totally just screwed my example. Sorry guys.

So i CAN recoup the entire purchase price out of the car, since it was under half. Nifty.

I just want to know what a ZJ is.

Per Schroeder wrote: I just want to know what a ZJ is.

I joined a Jeep Club to do off-roading stuff, I'm learning new words. I call it a Cherokee, they call it a ZJ, older ones are TJs (I think).

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=jeep+ZJ&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=H7tkSuLmEZLWM6DZ-PcB&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4

Per Schroeder wrote: I just want to know what a ZJ is.

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

SVreX wrote: Rex: You are getting your panties in a know over nothing. You are correct, no one cares where you get the money to finance your Challenger. However, you can't list RECOUP money in excess of the amount spent on a specific purchase, nor in excess of $1005 for the whole project.

That's what I said to begin with. :)

I thought that's what I heard you say!

if you run exactly to the letter of the rules, Great, you will be the only one out there that is.

ronbros wrote: if you run exactly to the letter of the rules, Great, you will be the only one out there that is.

flounder?

how many challenges have you run, ron?

therex wrote: That's what I said to begin with. :)

The little item you're missing here is not the $1005 total recoup. It is the exceeding the purchase value of any one item.

In my example I purchased a parts car for $400, I kept the engine, radiator, and a few other components, then ebayed the rest making over $1000 in sales, yet I can only claim the initial $400 for recoup purposes.

That said I can still sell the engine of my challenge car and other parts up to the value paid for that car but not exceeding the $1005 recoup total rule.

The primary reason for this would appear to be to stop someone buying a $10,000 dollar turbo race car then recouping $8,000 from the recaro interior, race cell, cage, etc (or similar road car deals)........This is my take anyway.

Ron ran the first one and is a bit of a cynic.

heres the budget spreadsheet i just worked out. my daughter helped.

please check it over, anddouble check me.

Budget for truck.

Purchase price:15

Plugs, wires, cap, rotor, PCV, fuel filter, seafoam 53.00

        Seafoam:10

Wiper blades 20

Ignition module 26

Interior door handles: 15

        Traded away , used parts truck. Traded parts truck parts for chrome

Seat belts: 22.74 didn’t use

Blazer Seats: 45.24

Door panels: 26.12

a-pillar trim 8.38. didn’t use

taillights: 39.22

fender flares: 20.00

headliner: 10

carpet 15

weatherstripping 15

sub box 37 took out

door panel clips 2.99

console 20 took out

front sway bar 10

front sway bar end links 12

springs 75 coils off, minus 30

AC kit 35

69 fuel pump (didn’t need, was wiring)

6 spray paint back of frame

Steering linkage 83.20

Shocks 40

Steering shaft 9.81

Blazer bumper 38.20

Brevada grille 23.76

Trailer hitch 25.22

Sunvisors 9.58

Fan control switch 20

Rear sway bar brackets: 14

Rear sway bar: 10

Headlight adjusters: 5.00

Paint and tape: 5 sanded off

Pinion shim 45

Irocs with tires: 170 tires-50

Manifold gasket 16.99

Valve cover gasket 9.99

Belt 15.99

Steering box 32

Exhaust 71.96

Batter cables and terminals: 32

Battery tray steel 10

Lca bushings 53

Window weatherstripping 2

Parts truck 200

        416 sold

Sold stock wheels and tires from good truck for 125

Traded wheels for wheels and tires which I traded for tires

Clutch and leaf spring bushings 141.13

Flywheel resurface 35

Interior dye 7

Trans bearings 15

Trans input grease seal 5

Labor for bearing 5

Gauges 102

Lexan 9

Lca and ball joint press 45

Upper ball joints 34

Lower ball joints 44

Studs: 25

Wheel spacers 10

Wiring supplies: 8.62

Apc seats 50

Steel for seats 6

Lowering blocks 30

Paint and body 366.70

Exhaust pipe: 19.26

Total recoup 541 (331 too much)

Total as truck sits: one APC seats no apc seat steel, no spacers, no new fuel pump, no sub, no paint/tape, no shims, no front coils, no trailer hitch, no seafoam, no seatbelts, no interior door handles, no wipers, minus 50 for tires sold from irocs,

1839.52

170 left!!!