Is Toyota still the gold standard in hybrids?

Alluded to in the dealership thread. Swmbos decided she'd like to own a brand new car. She's been talking about it for quite some time as a thought exercise, and then Disney starting paying her what it's worth. She's worked her ass off to get where she is, and quite frankly if she wants a new car, she's earned a new car imo. 

Thus begins the search. She wants a jellybean. She even acknowledges that she wants a jellybean. Initial contestants included the Mazda cx-5/50, the Ford escape, and...I forget what else. Doesn't matter.

We discussed electric, because she really likes the idea of not paying for gas. That was ruled out when she also decided we're moving away from our apartment situation in Orlando, to a rental home....on the other side of Orlando. So full electric could be problematic. 

Enter the hybrid. Admittedly I know very little of hybrid technology. I get it, but I've never paid attention to it because I'm not that fancy. I drive a 20 year old liberty that I paid $500 for three years ago. 

So, we're looking at hybrids. My understanding in the past is that Toyota has been the gold standard in hybrid tech since the days when a Prius had a trunk. Is this true? Her other wants include buttons (she's fascinated with tech in cars. The screens and buttons and E36 M3? Wants all of it) a nice color (Mazda crystal red is VERY high on the list, along with the Toyota single stage concrete gray or whatever it is) . She's kind of a hard limit at rav4ish size. Does not want a third row. It's her, me and three cats- we don't need a ton of space, and I'm still getting an escalade...... eventually. Trying to avoid a cvt if at all possible, admittedly I don't know if that's even possible anymore. No brands really off the table- it's not my car. (Normally I'd say no honda, but I'm trying my damnedest to not be as judgy this year, and not my car). 

Tldr. Swmbo wants a small SUV or tall wagon with hybrid ish for the mpgs, wants it pretty loaded....and that's it. What's out there? 

For the love of god don't move to East or South Orlando for your own sake. Over by UCF/Oviedo, the traffic is off-the-wall. Champions Gate by Disney is even worse. I just moved back after living in Los Angeles and its safe to say that Orlando traffic is worse. 

Also avoid the Toyota dealer near Universal. They've got a minimum $5k markup on everything. $20k+ on the Tundras and Sequoias. 

Anyways the Rav4 Prime sounds like it would be a perfect fit. Plug-in hybrid, has two color options with two red variants and two blue variants, followed by a sea of neutrals. It has a fully digital dash, huge infotainment screen, 42mile electric range, etc. 

It honestly looks pretty comfortable too. 

In reply to DirtyBird222 :

Longwood. We know about the traffic already. We're in 4 corners now and I can't go to target without wanting to fistfight tourists, so it's time to go. 

Edited to add- if that's universal Toyota, we're acquainted with the universal dealership group, and we aren't fans. Their moron techs broke her versa when they put the wrong trans fluid in it. The advisor was an idiot. Asked him what kind of fluid they put in it, he said standard atf. I replied "the car is a manual". Idiot didn't even know the car. 

Following this thread because my little family is due for a new hauler. Ideally a hybrid/plug-in hybrid SUV.

Personally, we've been eyeing the plug-in version of the Hyundai Santa Fe/Kia Sorrento as well as the Hyundai Tucson/Kia Sportage.

We also haven't ruled out the Toyota RAV4 or the new Honda CR-V Hybrid, though we've noticed once you start speccing hybrids and especially plug-ins, that price tag starts to get pretty high.

I know the allure of a new car, did it twice when I was young and had money to burn.  If she keeps the car for a few hundred miles it is OK, otherwise depreciation can easily become the biggest expense of car ownership.  I know nothing but gen 2 prius, but on these forums anyone can say anything, so here goes.  Go to tampa hybrids, look them up.  Visit and buy the best gen 2 they have.  Put the rest of her money in CDs, vanguard funds, money market.  In 10 years the little prius will still be running great and you will have a nice bag of money.  And in 10 years that money will make you smile more than memories of a new car 10 years ago.

Toyota and Ford have nearly identical Hybrid systems. They're a CVT but it's not the Nissan type of CVT, it's just two electric motors and a planetary gear set. They're known for brutal efficiency and reliability.

You can get that hybrid system in Rav4 Hybrid or Rav4 Prime (Plug in hybrid with 42 miles of all electric range):

You can also get the same type of hybrid system in a Ford Escape hybrid and Escape PHEV (with 37 mile all-electric range):

The Hyundai Sante Fe also offers a standard hybrid and a PHEV option with 30 mile EV range, but it's a slightly different design. Rather than the eCVT setup that Toyota and Ford use, Hyundai's hybrids use an electric motor sandwiched between the ICE and a traditional automatic transmission:

There's also a CR-V hybrid (currently no PHEV option):

Honestly, for less money than most of these, you can probably get a Bolt EUV (assuming you can charge at home and/or work). They're full electric, with 247 miles of rated range but most people get more than that, especially with lower speeds if SWMBO might be in traffic a lot:

Mndsm said:

In reply to DirtyBird222 :

Longwood. We know about the traffic already. We're in 4 corners now and I can't go to target without wanting to fistfight tourists, so it's time to go. 

 

Edited to add- if that's universal Toyota, we're acquainted with the universal dealership group, and we aren't fans. Their moron techs broke her versa when they put the wrong trans fluid in it. The advisor was an idiot. Asked him what kind of fluid they put in it, he said standard atf. I replied "the car is a manual". Idiot didn't even know the car. 

Ah good choice! Grew up there and we run our champcar operation out of that area. I'll be buying another home in that area once interest rates become reasonable again. 

Toyota of Orlando is the one I was thinking of.

Also what Colin said about the Hyundai/Kia offerings. 

porschenut said:

I know the allure of a new car, did it twice when I was young and had money to burn.  If she keeps the car for a few hundred miles it is OK, otherwise depreciation can easily become the biggest expense of car ownership.  I know nothing but gen 2 prius, but on these forums anyone can say anything, so here goes.  Go to tampa hybrids, look them up.  Visit and buy the best gen 2 they have.  Put the rest of her money in CDs, vanguard funds, money market.  In 10 years the little prius will still be running great and you will have a nice bag of money.  And in 10 years that money will make you smile more than memories of a new car 10 years ago.

I'm well versed in depreciation. We were going to drive the versa until the wheels fell off (and I still might). 

It's hard to quantify without understanding exactly what she's done to get where she is, but if she wants a brand new shiny car with all the things that go with it- that's what she's gonna get. That being said- I am not opposed to a Prius in any fashion, other than she wants a trucklet. 

STM317 said:

Toyota and Ford have nearly identical Hybrid systems. They're a CVT but it's not the Nissan type of CVT, it's just two electric motors and a planetary gear set. They're known for brutal efficiency and reliability.

 

I think this is a very important distinction. I am still not onboard with the "typical" CVT transmission with a flexible steel drive belt found on many CVT's but the design used with the Hybrids mentioned above should be very reliable and  I would include them in my search criteria despite having a CVT.

Mndsm said: That being said- I am not opposed to a Prius in any fashion, other than she wants a trucklet. 

If an actual trucklet is an option, then you can get a Maverick Hybrid that will get 42mpg in the city and can still do truck things. It shares a platform with the Escape, so might be a comfortable size for her:

Also worth mentioning that most of these vehicles can be exceedingly difficult to actually find these days. They're extremely popular and aren't being made in super high numbers yet.

In reply to STM317 :

Been looking for RAV4 primes all morning. There appear to be precisely 0 currently in the state of Florida and Toyota isn't showing me an option to build one. 

We're not planning on being serious about it til q4 this year...but I want to start now- so I can get all the information possible to present before she signs 50k away. Nothing like buying a new car and having the engine fall out (not that I'd know anything about that.....). 

Youre getting great advice in this thread and I agree with it all. 

Yes, the Rav4 Prime is a highly desirable car. The dealerships will be very proud of them...dicks!

The non-prime Rav4 hybrid is great too. Lexus has a small hybrid called the UX that's worth a look also. Toyota Venza is the fancy Rav4 hybrid. Nearly Lexus level...nice. 

STM317 said:

Mndsm said: That being said- I am not opposed to a Prius in any fashion, other than she wants a trucklet. 

If an actual trucklet is an option, then you can get a Maverick Hybrid that will get 42mpg in the city and can still do truck things. It shares a platform with the Escape, so might be a comfortable size for her:

 

Also worth mentioning that most of these vehicles can be exceedingly difficult to actually find these days. They're extremely popular and aren't being made in super high numbers yet.

I love these small unibody trucks; but, damn if I'm not sad that Utes didn't make their way here. A revival of the El Camino and Ranchero would have been very welcomed in my household. 

John Welsh said:

Youre getting great advice in this thread and I agree with it all. 

Yes, the Rav4 Prime is a highly desirable car. The dealerships will be very proud of them...dicks!

The non-prime Rav4 hybrid is great too. Lexus has a small hybrid called the UX that's worth a look also. Toyota Venza is the fancy Rav4 hybrid. Nearly Lexus level...nice. 

You've got more experience than anyone I know with this type of car. I consider this high praise. 

John Welsh said:

Youre getting great advice in this thread and I agree with it all. 

Yes, the Rav4 Prime is a highly desirable car. The dealerships will be very proud of them...dicks!

The non-prime Rav4 hybrid is great too. Lexus has a small hybrid called the UX that's worth a look also. Toyota Venza is the fancy Rav4 hybrid. Nearly Lexus level...nice. 

Yeah, I was going to suggest the UX250h.  It looks like it's 80-90% of the underpinnings of the new '23 Prius... just with added weight from the Luxury of Lexus.  Probably slightly taller too?

My wife has a '21 RAV 4 Hybrid that we bought new. Make sure your wife drives a few prospective choices before making a decision. My wife found the RAV 4 to be a much, much nicer vehicle than the Kia Whatever it competes with. I have no opinion on that, but I'll note that I find the RAV 4 to be massively underdamped. Like '89 Grand Marquis with bad shocks underdamped. Seriously, it's uncomfortable, and I don't like a super-firm ride. We rented a non-hybrid RAV 4 on a recent out of town trip, and it rode exactly the same. I know you're already focussed on a hybrid, but I'll also note that aside from the identical ride, the Hybrid RAV 4 is much nicer to drive than the non-hybrid. The transmission strategy / tuning on the regular version is just awful, while the hybrid is just smooth continuous power, and it's quieter too.

If you want loaded, get an Audi Q5 e-tron. 365hp, 25-30 miles EV range, and every bell and whistle you can imagine. 

Uncle David (Forum Supporter) said:

My wife has a '21 RAV 4 Hybrid that we bought new. Make sure your wife drives a few prospective choices before making a decision. My wife found the RAV 4 to be a much, much nicer vehicle than the Kia Whatever it competes with. I have no opinion on that, but I'll note that I find the RAV 4 to be massively underdamped. Like '89 Grand Marquis with bad shocks underdamped. Seriously, it's uncomfortable, and I don't like a super-firm ride. We rented a non-hybrid RAV 4 on a recent out of town trip, and it rode exactly the same. I know you're already focussed on a hybrid, but I'll also note that aside from the identical ride, the Hybrid RAV 4 is much nicer to drive than the non-hybrid. The transmission strategy / tuning on the regular version is just awful, while the hybrid is just smooth continuous power, and it's quieter too.

I also agree on the suspension on the Rav4 being not great, although I don't think it's awful and it's no worse than I'd expect to find on most cars made for people that don't really like cars.  SWMBO's mom has one that I've driven a few times (also a '21 hybrid).  And it has the typical Toyota steering feel that I dislike as well (numb and a little twitchy on center, but not as bad as the mid-2000s Toyotas).  The auto high beams are also so bad that I question why they bothered installing them "ooh, that car disappeared behind a tree for a second, high beams on, crap, car, high beams off, ok, they're gone, high beams on, oops, reflective road sign, high beams off".  At least that feature is easy to disable. 

Drivetrain wise, I'd say the Rav4 Hybrid is quite good.  Toyota has improved the hybrid system in leaps and bounds since the Gen2 Prius days.  My complaints with the Gen2 Prius are well documented on here, but the Rav4 shares none of them.  Regen braking is nice and smooth smooth and integrates almost seamlessly with the friction brakes, power delivery is good and has no objectionable engine spool-up lag, etc. 

In reply to Javelin :

Those are extremely neat cars. And they're the right size. Those might be a bit spicy on her price point (self imposed) but I'll point it out. 

I think this guy does good reviews

I've been shopping recently. 
 

I went to a few Toyota dealers before finding one that had a new RAV4, any new RAV4, in stock, so I could check out the interior dimensions. 
 

I asked about the lead time for getting a new one. This may be this one specific dealer, but he said 2-3 months for a gas engine and ONE YEAR for a hybrid. 
 

I ended up ordering a new Honda, but not necessarily for those reasons. But I think Toyota has been having more issues responding to the chip shortage than Honda has.