It is illegal to do major repairs on your car in your garage in Sacramento County

nutherjrfan said:

alfadriver said:

In reply to nutherjrfan :

Seems like more reasons to get involved. 

Time to stop blaming the system, understand how it works, and not pass the buck. As you say, it’s about people, be one of those people. 

Not to be dick but I'll continue to disagree.

The Feds were brought about by the States and power was divvied up between the three branches to balance out the chance of tyranny.

You simply don't have that at the local level.

It's great when you live in a locality where you have rational actors in control that think somewhat like you.  Makes agreeing with one another pretty easy.

When that's not the case at the local level there is no balance of power.  There is no alternate power base to balance out over reach.  

I wish it were.  Put simply you have to move to an area where you agree with people nowadays and for the most part of history that is what humans have done.

Agreeing with every single person you meet where I live is a point of pride and intense self-congratulating.  Lots of navel gazing but very little critical thought.

If this were a locality in the Deep South maybe he'd stand a chance of appealing to the more yeoman Jeffersonian residents but in California? 

Ok that last point was a generalization so I could be way off the mark. 

And as long as we all accept that, the situation will never, ever change. 

At some point, if you want the system to change, we have to stop waiting for someone else to do it. 

wae said:

In reply to No Time :

Based on that list it looks like things that would be consider major repairs would be:

- gluing your rearview mirror back on
- replacing your stereo or speakers
- putting new pedal pads on
- installing a new soft top on a convertible
- installing a new gas cap
- replacing the antenna
- applying or removing window tint film
- replacing a fuse or relay
- replacing wiper blades
- replacing the shifter boot
- using a home A/C top-off kit
- filling the washer fluid bottle
- installing new wheelcovers/hubcaps
- programming a remote lock keyfob
- replacing the air filter
- replacing the cabin air filter
 

From the Sacramento city code:

 For the purposes of this chapter, the following definitions shall have the following specified meanings:

             “Major vehicle repair” means any maintenance, repair or replacement not listed in the definition of “minor vehicle repair” including, but not limited to, the removal of engines, rebuilding of engines, repair of the internal components, repair or removal of transmissions, repair or removal of differentials or axles, dismantling of vehicles, and body work.

             “Minor vehicle repair” means maintenance, repair or replacement of the alternator, generator, starter, water pump, fuel pump, battery or, brakes, or parts thereof; minor tune-up (which consists of distributor cap, rotor and spark plug replacement); change of oil and filter, fan belt, or hoses; lamp replacement; repair of flat tires; lubrication, spot painting.

             “Vehicle” means a self-propelled device by which any person or property may be propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved exclusively by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks. (Prior code § 25.15.400)

So, I can replace the water pump in my ms3, which is just about removing the engine, but I can't swap the radio in my corolla, which is.....4 screws? Seems legit. Eh, whatever. I'm just here for the popcorn anyhow. 

Can we kill this thread now?

Appleseed said:

Can we kill this thread now?

Why?  Politics infringing on your hobbies is cool so we should just ignore it and hope it’ll go away?  Sure maybe the OP has a messy place, but it’s still his right?  I think this thread might be super appropriate given it’s July 4th weekend.  

A few regular players are turning this into something else. Its quickly moving beyond responsible discord. It will devolve into name calling of the lowest common denominator or slowly drift off after the loudest players run out of breath. This is not the first thread to do this. Just watch.

nutherjrfan said:

Agreeing with every single person you meet where I live is a point of pride and intense self-congratulating.  Lots of navel gazing but very little critical thought.

I had a job interview that I knew right away I was going to say "no" to the job, but the business owner kept talking and I kept nodding my head and saying "sure".  The more I agreed with him, the more he talked.  Mostly I learned that I was very smart to decide not to take the job in the first five minutes.

I mean, it was like talking to HST if he were a Sovereign Citizen and a con artist.  I tried not to laugh when he mentioned giving speeches to Saudi princes, I tried not to cringe when he mentioned that he had twelve Social Security numbers, I tried not to giggle when he started going on about the US running on the money that the World Bank deposited into your personal account when you were born.  Basically, my poker face grew three sizes that day.

In reply to Appleseed :

Can we kill this thread now?

Isn’t that a lot like the topic of this thread? You don’t like something, disagree, don’t see the value in the discussion, or don’t like the content of the discussion. Fair enough. But why not simply walk away, don’t open the thread. This forum already has rules, politely pointed out above, and moderators to enforce those rules as they see fit. Why do you feel the need to call to close it for everyone?

Sounds kinda like non car people calling to ban people from working on their own cars. 

The City of Sacramento (and all Cities within the county) can have different laws than the County of Sacramento.

The City of Sacramento has also given me a violation for having unregistered cars in my backyard in a house I had in the City,

because the crazy lady across the alley filed a complaint (she was angry I put tire track in the alley between us, and also kicked a dent in my car,

and I called the police when she would not let me leave the alley (Police said she is a well known crackpot).  But that does not stop Code Enforcement

from acting on her complaints.  So 'be nice to your neighbors you won't have a problem" rings hollow.

nimblemotorsports said:

The City of Sacramento (and all Cities within the county) can have different laws than the County of Sacramento.

The City of Sacramento has also given me a violation for having unregistered cars in my backyard in a house I had in the City,

because the crazy lady across the alley filed a complaint (she was angry I put tire track in the alley between us, and also kicked a dent in my car,

and I called the police when she would not let me leave the alley (Police said she is a well known crackpot).  But that does not stop Code Enforcement

from acting on her complaints.  So 'be nice to your neighbors you won't have a problem" rings hollow.

 

Or maybe "do unto others?"  Its been established that your place is a mess, can't really blame the "Crackpot" for wanting things nice.  

I love cars at all levels and most levels of E36 M3headery, but if I was your neighbor I would call code enforcement too.  

SVreX said:

Oh hooray!  A semantics argument!!

Out before the lock. 

If you don't like semantics arguments, why did you make one?

This law is all about money, not unlike red light cameras in Sacto  County.  I have gone to County Supervisor meetings when they are fixing to do something stupid.  I don't have enough money for them to care what I think.

In reply to Appleseed :

Well essentially you just called us all names.  You are actually being the antagonizer right now.  I regret typing this but I'll help you fulfill your prophecy and sod off again.

In reply to Appleseed :

Fair enough.  Name calling will not do anything for this issue.  Tx recently had a reversal of a similar bureaucratic decision made without a vote but it took a lot of concerted effort.  

A lot of “laws” on the books aren’t laws because they were never voted on.  They are unilateral decisions made by people with questionable judgement and knowledge of the issue.

nutherjrfan said:

In reply to Appleseed :

Well essentially you just called us all names.  You are actually being the antagonizer right now.  I regret typing this but I'll help you fulfill your prophecy and sod off again.

Well, if you are one of the loud ones that often gets a thread locked because you moved beyond the original topic to one of personal vendetta,  the yes, I'm talking about you. 

I'm not talking about you.

nimblemotorsports said:

The City of Sacramento (and all Cities within the county) can have different laws than the County of Sacramento.

The City of Sacramento has also given me a violation for having unregistered cars in my backyard in a house I had in the City,

because the crazy lady across the alley filed a complaint .

 

You weren't given these violations "because" people filed complaints. You were given the violations because you -admittedly - are violating laws, zoning, and registration requirements. People calling in on you isn't the cause of the issues. It's just a symptom. 

This reminds me of all the lame threads about people complaining how they got a speeding ticket for going 85 in a 55 "because the cop had nothing better to do." rather than "because I was going 85 in a 55 like a dumbass." 

MSN frontpaged this to my google feed. Danger. 

I've seen links to this discussion on the Garage Journal forum as well as a woodworking site.  For better or worse it's gone viral.

stuart in mn said:

I've seen links to this discussion on the Garage Journal forum as well as a woodworking site.  For better or worse it's gone viral.

The main problem is most people will just read the original post and think that's the whole story........

In reply to irish44j :

Yeah, this one de-evolved rather quickly. 

I hope the “discord” can turn back into “discourse”.

I feel for the OP...  and for his neighbor. Question: did you ever get the electric RX-8 running? 

In reply to irish44j :

You weren't given these violations "because" people filed complaints. You were given the violations because you -admittedly - are violating laws, zoning, and registration requirements. People calling in on you isn't the cause of the issues. It's just a symptom. 

This reminds me of all the lame threads about people complaining how they got a speeding ticket for going 85 in a 55 "because the cop had nothing better to do." rather than "because I was going 85 in a 55 like a dumbass." 

While you are technically correct, I think you are missing the point. The situation is very different than your speeding analogy.

Get a speeding ticket, and you can have your day in  court. You don’t have to pay 150% of the ticket, non refundable, to go to court. You pay the fine and get it back if you win. 

Speeding is supposed to be enforced non discressionally. While not quite the case, at least you have the opportunity to face your accuser. I can’t report a neighbor anonymously for speeding and get him cited. 

If I’m speeding down the highway, I’ve got roughly the same chance of getting a speeding ticket as anyone speeding around me. If I’m doing an engine swap in my garage in Sacramento county, I’ve got about a zero percent chance that a code compliance officer is going to notice, without delegating his power to my neighbors. 

I’ve seen quite a few people back pedal on their support for the O.P. after seeing his messy yard. But he wasn’t cited for a messy yard, he was cited for doing major repairs on vehicles. Back to the speeding analogy, it would be like getting a speeding ticket because “your car looks fast, you must speed.”

Lastly, I think the point of this discussion isn’t about the guilt of the O.P.. It’s about what most of us consider overly broad and burdensome regulation that directly affects our hobby, and for some their basic ability to secure transportation. I know when I was young and poor, I worked on my cars because I had to, not because I wanted to. The prospect of taking my car to a shop was as likely as me pulling the repair money out of my rear end. I worked on my car at friends and relative’s houses, outlawed under this regulation. As I grew more financially secure, I bought a house and got more involved as a hobby- also outlawed under this regulation. I do pretty well now, can afford some land outside the city and could build my dream shop. Guess what- outlawed. 

If you want the speeding ticket analogy to work, it would look like this...

County sets max speed limit for the county at 25mph, but there is no active enforcement. The general population ignores that limit- it’s not posted and everyone drives normally. Everyone is a speeder. A fellow motorist reports you ananomously and you are automatically deemed guilty and fined. Technically you are guilty, and ignorance of the law is not a defense. Do you just pay your fine and accept it? Start driving 25 while everyone else whizzes by? 

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

Technically speaking, yes. Is it a dick move to dime your friend, especially when you're just as guilty? Absolutely. Unfortunately,  the facts are all that figure in here- and in your analogy the facts are- speeding illegal. You=speeding. Everyone else is too, but you happen to be the one caught that time. The means of the catch are irrelevant.  I've been busted plenty of times for speeding, where a billion others going as fast. It sucks that I was the one chosen, but does not change my guilt. I certainly did not help my own situation by driving the car that I did (police do not like tinted windows in mn- and I have quite tinted windows) and could mitigate the problem by not tinting my windows. From this perspective,  OP could mitigate the problem by not having a messy yard and whatever else caused 5-0 to come over. I've had friends have code enforcement called on them before as well, my take is generally it only happens in cases of gross negligence on the part of the owner, or a neighbor being petty. bottom line unfortunately,  is the law is the law. It is a poorly written, and in my opinion,  an absolutely asinine law, but it is what it is.  We can all have opinions on it, but like you said limit is 25mph, 30 is not legal. That's where were at here from an objective standpoint.  

Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to irish44j :

You weren't given these violations "because" people filed complaints. You were given the violations because you -admittedly - are violating laws, zoning, and registration requirements. People calling in on you isn't the cause of the issues. It's just a symptom. 

This reminds me of all the lame threads about people complaining how they got a speeding ticket for going 85 in a 55 "because the cop had nothing better to do." rather than "because I was going 85 in a 55 like a dumbass." 

While you are technically correct, I think you are missing the point. The situation is very different than your speeding analogy.

Get a speeding ticket, and you can have your day in  court. You don’t have to pay 150% of the ticket, non refundable, to go to court. You pay the fine and get it back if you win. 

Speeding is supposed to be enforced non discressionally. While not quite the case, at least you have the opportunity to face your accuser. I can’t report a neighbor anonymously for speeding and get him cited. 

If I’m speeding down the highway, I’ve got roughly the same chance of getting a speeding ticket as anyone speeding around me. If I’m doing an engine swap in my garage in Sacramento county, I’ve got about a zero percent chance that a code compliance officer is going to notice, without delegating his power to my neighbors. 

I’ve seen quite a few people back pedal on their support for the O.P. after seeing his messy yard. But he wasn’t cited for a messy yard, he was cited for doing major repairs on vehicles. Back to the speeding analogy, it would be like getting a speeding ticket because “your car looks fast, you must speed.”

Lastly, I think the point of this discussion isn’t about the guilt of the O.P.. It’s about what most of us consider overly broad and burdensome regulation that directly affects our hobby, and for some their basic ability to secure transportation. I know when I was young and poor, I worked on my cars because I had to, not because I wanted to. The prospect of taking my car to a shop was as likely as me pulling the repair money out of my rear end. I worked on my car at friends and relative’s houses, outlawed under this regulation. As I grew more financially secure, I bought a house and got more involved as a hobby- also outlawed under this regulation. I do pretty well now, can afford some land outside the city and could build my dream shop. Guess what- outlawed. 

If you want the speeding ticket analogy to work, it would look like this...

County sets max speed limit for the county at 25mph, but there is no active enforcement. The general population ignores that limit- it’s not posted and everyone drives normally. Everyone is a speeder. A fellow motorist reports you ananomously and you are automatically deemed guilty and fined. Technically you are guilty, and ignorance of the law is not a defense. Do you just pay your fine and accept it? Start driving 25 while everyone else whizzes by? 

 

I wasn't analogizing the OP story to speeding per se, nor was I missing the point of the overall discussion. I was speaking only to how he lays blame on the neighbor for the situation (as many people blame cops for speeding tickets), rather than the people who actually made the law. In both cases, the underlying CAUSE of the situation is violation of the law. How and why the violation is reported or enforced is an entirely separate matter, as is whether the law is fair/unfair/idiotic/etc.  Whether the neighbor is grumpy, or a jerk, or whtaever isn't the point at all, and isn't even worth mentioning, as it's just a distraction. 

I agree the law is idiotic, as are the fines and routes to remediation.

The way I read it, some kind of official viewed his property before giving the fine. They didn't just do it on the say-so of some random neighbor (and I don't recall anything other than an "assumption" that it was the neighbor that called in the first place). 

Okay the speeding analogy is terrible.  Last time I was cited, researched this, fought it and won the word speeding doesn’t even appear in the laws of 40 or so states.  The law says driving at a speed greater than reasonable or prudent in most.  That’s not one number.  It depends on traffic, weather, road surface, lighting, condition of the vehicle etc.  My cars are typically lighter, have better brakes, better tires, and I have better driving skills than most police officers.  I’m also literate.  Reasonable judges also still exist.

Yes, for me, this topic is 100% about bureaucratic overreach without representation.  It is the founding principle of this country.  

Yep the OP is messy and I wonder how many of the projects from that video are in progress.  But that does not mitigate the prime importance of the gov’t overreach in question.  The OP has a very valid arguement.  By the Constitution he also has a right to have redress of the issue without undue and excessive financial punishment ( more gov’t overreach ).

The real kicker here is that the major problem are the people here and in his county taking the bureaucrats side because he is messy.  

Bad neighbor, probably.  Criminal?  Absolutely not.  

You allow things like this to slip and next thing you know you’ll need gov’t licenses to walk dogs....  you already need themfor tons of things in violation of The Constitution, why give in more?  

You’ll need a license to buy motor oil soon enough if you keep looking the other way.  

nimblemotorsports said:

They don't have to provide any evidence whatsoever 

I am pretty certain it is one neighbor, I talked to him before, he was a totally unfriendly jerk.  

If if you’re not immediately calling the Car-Nazi’s on this guy... I mean, what’s good for the goose right?

Let’s see how much he likes $400+ fines and investigations.

(edit: this was my advice after reading only Page 1)

https://www.powernationtv.com/post/sacramento-county-is-saying-its-illegal-to-work-on-your-car-in-your-own-garage 

heads up