Items found in Challenge Cars

We were working on a potential Challenge car last night, and found a Diamond ring stuck up under the dash. Not sure of the value yet, but I know that the change found in cars has been deducted from purchase prices. How would you handle jewelry?

Hmmm. This is much better than what the GRM crew found in one of their Miatas a couple years back.

I'd say polish it up, have it appraised, apply that toward the budget (that's been done with change, etc found in Challenge cars) and then give it to the wifey so she wount mind having a $2009 car hanging around.

I think you'd actually have to sell it to recoup it from budget. I'm pretty sure that was the ruling when someone wanted to keep some of the parts they got off of a parts car (for another car of theirs) and wanted to recoup what they were worth. No dice, you must actually sell the stuff and list the actual price recouped.

i dunno...if you bought a miata with a hard top for 2500, say fmv of the hard top is a grand, pull the top and you have $508 left in the budget. or maybe that only works if you buy something for the car, but don't end up using it, like a set of tires or something.

Ignoring the fact that you couldn't buy a $2500 car and sell it down(against the rules), I'm pretty sure you'd actually have to sell the top. I could claim FMV on every little part I take off of my car and get it down to zero in no time, actually selling the stuff and recouping the money is a different story. If I could sell everything in my garage for FMV I'd be loaded, but finding a buyer for some of the oddball E36 M3 I've accumulated would be tricky.

Woops. Hope I didn't smack a hornets' nest while trying to make a funny.

Sell it to your wife ;)

I'd take it to a reputable jeweler and have it appraised without it leaving my site, and don't give the backstory until after you have the ring back in hand or you might wind up with a CZ in its place (assuming it's not a CZ already).

93gsxturbo wrote: Sell it to your wife ;)

Or trade it to the wife in return for favors. Apply fair-market-value for services rendered.

Salanis wrote:

93gsxturbo wrote: Sell it to your wife ;)

Or trade it to the wife in return for favors. Apply fair-market-value for services rendered.

that is just wrong, I wanted to say that.

pigeon wrote: I'd take it to a reputable jeweler and have it appraised without it leaving my site, and don't give the backstory until after you have the ring back in hand or you might wind up with a CZ in its place (assuming it's not a CZ already).

You contradicted your self there Pigeon. A reputable jeweler wont "switch" stones on a ring. I have been in the jewelry buisiness for 18+ years and never heard a trustworthy customer who said it happened to them. The jewelers reputation is worth far more than ANY ring brought in.

Just wanted to vent a bit there. I kind of take that as being along the lines of all mechanics ripping off women or anyone else they think doesnt know jack about cars.

Suppose the previous owner was on his way to propose to his girlfriend when he lost the ring under the dash. Assume, therefore, that the evening didn't go as planned and the relationship disintegrated from that point on. Perhaps he is still single to this day.

You just can't place a value to something like that.

16vCorey wrote: If I could sell everything in my garage for FMV I'd be loaded, but finding a buyer for some of the oddball E36 M3 I've accumulated would be tricky.

If you can't actually sell it for FMV, then it isn't FMV now is it? The definition of market value is the amount that people will pay for something out on the open market . This little issue has caused billions if not trillions of dollars of grief in the financial services community over the last few months. No one gives a wet slap what you think it is worth if no one out there will pay that price for it. Add mark-to-market accounting and you have one first-class disaster.

If you actually sell an item for $x, then I say no questions asked you can deduct $x from your budget up to the limit. I would have assumed that if you wanted to keep a part rather than sell it off, it would be on your head to prove that the FMV that you are declaring is legit. Like showing three examples that sold for the same or more money around the same time that you would have been selling it. In my mind (not that it counts for anything) it is equivalent to declaring FMV on stuff you have lying around in your shop - if you are reasonable and can back the value up you shouldn't have any problems.

Now if the powers that be (that would be Per) don't agree, then that is that, but I don't understand how logically we could declare FMV on stuff that we want to put on the car when we can't do the equivalent on stuff we want to pull off. Heck it would be easier just to sell the darn part than to really document an air tight FMV that will get past your auditors! I mean judges.

Apologies for the rant ... I have some pent-up frustrations on this seemingly minor point ...

:)

Thomas

I like your reasoning, Thomas.

Having said that, I don't think it will fly.

The rules have a method for declaring fair market value for parts included. They simply don't define a fair market credit for parts removed. (though I like the idea).

I'm afraid this one would clearly default to the Challenge rule #2, " If the rules do not say you can do something, you cannot do it".

porksboy wrote:

pigeon wrote: I'd take it to a reputable jeweler and have it appraised without it leaving my site, and don't give the backstory until after you have the ring back in hand or you might wind up with a CZ in its place (assuming it's not a CZ already).

You contradicted your self there Pigeon. A reputable jeweler wont "switch" stones on a ring. I have been in the jewelry buisiness for 18+ years and never heard a trustworthy customer who said it happened to them. The jewelers reputation is worth far more than ANY ring brought in. Just wanted to vent a bit there. I kind of take that as being along the lines of all mechanics ripping off women or anyone else they think doesnt know jack about cars.

I get and understand your point, and I'm sorry if I insulted you. Unfortunately it only takes one bad apple one time to garner a bad reputation for an entire profession. Better safe than sorry though - same reason why we car guys/gals are consulted by friends for second opinions on vehicle diagnoses, right? Without an established relationship or some very strong references from people I trust I wouldn't let my wife's stones out of my sight.

I found a diamond ring in a Taurus I bought at an auction. Among the other items were a picture of a nice couple and a zippo with initials and a date on it. Ring was appraised at $4000. Title search gave me a name but other searches proved futile so I gave up looking. February 9th 2003 while at work (nice restaurant) I recognized the 2 people from the picture with 2 kids coming in to eat. I still had the picture, ring and lighter and had my brother run them over. Turns out that this was her engagement ring that he got from his grandmother. The daughter confessed to playing with it in the car when she was 5 and was scared when she lost it and never told anyone. Date on the lighter was their wedding day and it was now their 10th anniversary. I only paid $65 for the car. Pretty good night for everyone.

Bruce

P.S. I still have the lighter..just got forgotten in the excitement.

I found a moldy thong in my bus.

Devil's Advocate: Would anyone ask to see the receipt of the diamond ring sold? I say I found a $600 item in the car thus reducing my budget by $600, but what if?

Dan

My wife and daughter are both insisting that we try to find the previous owner to return the ring. I really don't think that this is a valuable ring. Possibly worth a couple of hundred but I am sure not worth thousands. The car was bought at auction 10 years ago. I don't even know where to begin to look. We got the car from the guy that bought it at auction.

Egnorant, that's an amazing story.

Sell the ring. Deduct whatever you sell it for from the price of the car. I really don't get why this stuff is so hard to understand.

egnorant wrote: ....... February 9th 2003 while at work (nice restaurant) I recognized the 2 people from the picture with 2 kids coming in to eat. I still had the picture, ring and lighter and had my brother run them over. Turns out that this was her engagement ring that he got from his grandmother...... Bruce P.S. I still have the lighter..just got forgotten in the excitement.

awesome, on behalf of humanity, thanks for not only being honest, but giving a dam as well... there may be hope for humans yet...

....................................... stuff i found in my challenge car...

this guy founds some nuts that didnt agree with him (exactly how i found him!)

snakeskin anyone?

i found another one up under the dash!

found a nice "new" water pump in the hatch as well...guess i bought it before i parked it in the Catskills in y2k...

all i found in the parts car so far were palmetto bugs, still alive... nasty huge (2"+ long roach like creatures.. ) ... and 27 cents...

poopshovel wrote: Sell the ring. Deduct whatever you sell it for from the price of the car. I really don't get why this stuff is so hard to understand.

No E36 M3. Same thing with all the "does xxxx part go on the budget?" thread. Buy a car, sell unwanted stuff and deduct it from budget, buy wanted stuff and add it to the budget. It really is that simple.

You are right.....It's not tough, I get the budget stuff...this was intended more as a "look what I found" thread. I don't care about the ring or the value of the ring. I know that even if I was able to sell the ring for half of the national debt, that I could only count it as half the purchase price of the car, or $1004.50, if I had spent the total allowable purchase price of a Challenge car. Fair market value is a concept that has caused way too much conversation here. In my opinion, fair market value is probably a more expensive price to "pay" for a car or parts than what any Challenger worth his salt would ever pay for something. If you can aquire something for well below "fair market value" why would you use something that you own and have to burden your budget with actual value.

Note: I also understand the difference between "Challenge Budget" and "Personal Budget" The FMV price doesn't actually remove cash from your wallet.

Jensenman wrote: Woops. Hope I didn't smack a hornets' nest while trying to make a funny.

Nope, I just felt like being a stickler.

Sofa King wrote: You are right.....It's not tough, I get the budget stuff...this was intended more as a "look what I found" thread. I don't care about the ring or the value of the ring. I know that even if I was able to sell the ring for half of the national debt, that I could only count it as half the purchase price of the car, or $1004.50, if I had spent the total allowable purchase price of a Challenge car. Fair market value is a concept that has caused way too much conversation here. In my opinion, fair market value is probably a more expensive price to "pay" for a car or parts than what any Challenger worth his salt would ever pay for something. If you can aquire something for well below "fair market value" why would you use something that you own and have to burden your budget with actual value. Note: I also understand the difference between "Challenge Budget" and "Personal Budget" The FMV price doesn't actually remove cash from your wallet.

I know. My responses were more targeted to others in this thread. I thought I'd clarify some misinfo before it spread, even if it was just a joke. I think it's cool as E36 M3 that you found something potentially valuable in a challenge car, as I have not been so lucky. I also think it's cool as E36 M3 that you seem to get it. Well done sir.