It's no flyin miata but...

Turbo Miata for Sale

I am thinking about my next track car. I am seriously considering a salvage C5 or a C4 as the one thing I did not like about my old miata was the power and the soundtrack. However I know how easy Miatas are to drive/fix/modify and still do have a love for them. This car seems nicely modded but I know nothing about the reliability of these turbo kits.

I know the miataturbo forum guys say that iconel studs and something about vbands now are keys to more reliability

Is buying something like this a shortcut? How much does a rebuild cost?

Seems like its a rollbar/hardtop away from being a decent track car unless it needs the rebuild like now

BEGI

Run away. You will spend thousands trying to make that anywhere half as reliable as an NA Miata.

I prefer to start with a clean slate then go in after someone and try to clean it up.

Alright, sounds like I should just stick to my more displacement plan :P

See the "For those who love racing" thread for a reliable, economical, and fast racing car.

Jaynen said:

Alright, sounds like I should just stick to my more displacement plan :P

No, Miata's are fantastic track cars. And the operating costs are going to be much, much lower than a V8 powered car. 

I'm saying THAT car, THAT car, is not worth the time/money/effort to make it reliable. 

I'd look for an NB Miata, roll bar, seats, harnesses, pads/fluid, check the hubs, etc. And go run it.

I have thought about going that exact route. with the NB vs the 1.6 NA I had before but I just want a bit more power and I don't know that even a healthy 130hp NB will scratch that itch.

chaparral said:

See the "For those who love racing" thread for a reliable, economical, and fast racing car.

When I search for those who love racing on the forums I am not getting any hits?

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/for-those-who-like-racing-i-advise-the-karting-and-to-do-it-with-love-and-dedication/122653/page1/

For someone looking for a local SSM autocross car that looks like a great deal!

A set of 275 Hoosiers on it and if I didn't get FTD I'd hang up my spurs as a driver.

Jaynen said:

I have thought about going that exact route. with the NB vs the 1.6 NA I had before but I just want a bit more power and I don't know that even a healthy 130hp NB will scratch that itch.

It's still not going to "pin you in your seat"........but you can follow the 949 recipe of intake/header/megasquirt to open up 15-20hp overstock.

If I was looking to go that route. I'd get a clean enough NB, get the suspension/brakes/safety all up to par while still working on my driving skills then either:

1. Build a reliable turbo BP engine.

or

2. K-swap to gain tons of power and stay NA.

Both of these options are going to cost about the same, "Not Cheap."

But they allow you to spread the cost out over time while still having the ability to go to the track.

BEGI kits are decent quality, but turbo Miata setups in general are typically best for when you need a few short bursts of power. They don't hold up well to long on track use. I agree with KyAllroad's assessment; it's good for autocross but not track events.

z31maniac said:

BEGI

Run away. You will spend thousands trying to make that anywhere half as reliable as an NA Miata.

I prefer to start with a clean slate then go in after someone and try to clean it up.

I somewhat disagree since I ran a similar spec to this for years & the current owner of my old car is plenty happy with its reliability as a dedicated DE/TT car. I agree that it will never be as reliable as a non-turbo with half the power. The devil is in the details.

Nothing wrong with BEGI stuff, I used their inconel studs and other bits. Nothing wrong with MSPNP either.

Yes you will spend several grand to finish this thing. After the motor work/replacement, a clutch, radiator, oil cooler, etc all will cost you.  Make sure the wiring's not hacked. Then move on to roll bar/cage/seat/safety items. It can be done for less than a clean slate start. 

Kirkey on a slider? Harness tied to the stock cross-brace? RS3s have '120' TW? BEGI?

This screams "I don't know what I'm doing."

Run away. I sold my PRISTINE '92 LE with MOMO seats/wheel, 248whp turbo setup, revalved konis, etc etc etc for $7k in 2011? With a hardtop too.

Dashpot said:

z31maniac said:

BEGI

Run away. You will spend thousands trying to make that anywhere half as reliable as an NA Miata.

I prefer to start with a clean slate then go in after someone and try to clean it up.

I somewhat disagree since I ran a similar spec to this for years & the current owner of my old car is plenty happy with its reliability as a dedicated DE/TT car. I agree that it will never be as reliable as a non-turbo with half the power. The devil is in the details.

Nothing wrong with BEGI stuff, I used their inconel studs and other bits. Nothing wrong with MSPNP either.

Yes you will spend several grand to finish this thing. After the motor work/replacement, a clutch, radiator, oil cooler, etc all will cost you.  Make sure the wiring's not hacked. Then move on to roll bar/cage/seat/safety items. It can be done for less than a clean slate start. 

 

 

 

 

TT, is he going out and doing a hero lap and coming back in? That's much different than going out and hammering on the car non-stop for 20-30 minute sessions.

You'll notice I recommended a MegaSquirt, so not sure what that's about. The FS AD doesn't mention Inconel, so I'll assume it doesn't have that or any other reliability type mods. And you agree with it still needs thousands in work.

So what you are saying is I should just buy pimpn3's c5 :)

Although a miata with more power would be fun. I would likely do all the other stuff but power which is what I did with my last one. The ecotec miata swap looks interesting also and you can use the SC or Turbo Cobalt SS motors not sure if those are going to be more reliable at 250ish hp than the BP. I think beyond that you start wrecking miata transmissions also.

Living in the south now (North Carolina) I know whatever I get will need to tolerate track duty in the heat and humidity

We ran our turbo ND on the track for 15 hours a couple of weeks ago. No problem with the car.

BEGI stuff varies quite a bit. Some is okay, some is less than perfectly thought out, all is made without jigs. One thing I would definitely do would be pull all the steel IC tubes and make sure they're not rusting internally. On that particular car I would also rip out the utterly crap Mishimoto fans and drive over them with a brodozer. Then install either good fans or at the very least upgrade to stock.

If I were building a Miata track car today, I'd very likely start with a 1.6 Spec Miata. Caged and logbooked and cheap. Slow as molasses in a straight line but that's a solvable problem down the road.

In reply to z31maniac :

I ran DE's & TT's on separate days, 6-8 events a season. Current owner runs 10-12 two day events at multiple tracks over the course of a season, probably twice the hours I ever put on it. Day 1's a typical DE with 4 - 20 minute sessions. Day 2 TT Practice & qualifying are 20-30 minute sessions each. TT's are 1 warmup & 3 hot laps. Open track after TT's are done. My point was the thing sees plenty of track time in a competitive club environment & doesn't blow up.  

The car in question has a lot of stuff to give the next owner a head start, which is what was asked. I think it does & wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. Just go in with eyes wide open.

rough numbers I guess

Lets say at 6k I could have a properly setup NB or like the car above but with rollbar and better suspension. As long as its drivable to the track since I don't have a truck and trailer it only needs to be streetable not a street car. I'm fine with something not inherently super fast out of the box in the fact that I autocrosses a 1.6 miata stock for a year with just star specs on daisies, then I added the wide wheels, coil overs , race seat etc. Then I got to the point where while I could definitely get better as a driver I was able to regularly hit my limit and the cars limits without adding power (on autocross did not get enough track time to be that comfortable on track). For the same money I could buy a salvage C5 like pimpn3's which probably even just with tires would be quite a bit faster than the miata but ultimate speed for dollar is not necessarily the deciding factor.

Let's say a year or two now into the ownership of either car I drop another 3-5 k and am looking at having spent a total of 10kish that 5k spent on the miata above is going to net you out where? if for another 5k you are saying the above miata doesn't really gain you much or can't be made reliable etc then thats a problem.

I like the precaged car idea but harder to find one that can currently be registered?

Dashpot said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I ran DE's & TT's on separate days, 6-8 events a season. Current owner runs 10-12 two day events at multiple tracks over the course of a season, probably twice the hours I ever put on it. Day 1's a typical DE with 4 - 20 minute sessions. Day 2 TT Practice & qualifying are 20-30 minute sessions each. TT's are 1 warmup & 3 hot laps. Open track after TT's are done. My point was the thing sees plenty of track time in a competitive club environment & doesn't blow up.  

The car in question has a lot of stuff to give the next owner a head start, which is what was asked. I think it does & wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. Just go in with eyes wide open.

Oh, you live in MA (and had plenty of stuff done to added to your car this one doesn't). 

Outside of track days in Mar/Oct/Nov, it's usually deep into the 90s in the afternoon. So 5 minutes of "pace" for a TT in a session isn't really representative of hammering on a car for 20 minutes straight when it's 95-105 outside.

Jaynen said:

I like the precaged car idea but harder to find one that can currently be registered?

My suggestion of a Spec Miata was assuming that it would be a dedicated track car, not a street car with a cage. That's not an excellent idea.

I'm not in the position to buy/store tow vehicle and trailer for race car (yet) however registering streetable track car vs registering tow vehicle probably is a wash but having to pay 50-60 a month to park the trailer/race car outdoors is crappy

A swapped FC sounds pretty fun too but might not be a better way to go. On the miata front I find the ecotec swaps really intriguing

In reply to z31maniac :

I stand by my experience & I did exactly what Jaynen intends to do for years.  What experience do you have with running a turbo Miata that makes you an authority on the subject? 

Since it needs a motor rebuild I think that car is overpriced but there's nothing inherently wrong with a turbo Miata for a track toy.  I know of a couple that regularly run 20 min sessions in 100 degree weather with no issues at all.  I can't say the same thing about some other combinations.  A factory stock Z06 for example.

Yeah the fact it sounds like it needs a rebuild is an issue. Car is sold anyway.

In my experience, the issues with BEGI mainly revolve around getting parts delivered in a reasonable timeframe and, once delivered, spending some quality time with your grinder getting them to fit.  Once all that is done, they're reasonably reliable.  So if the car is finished and working that's most of the battle, although it may become an issue finding replacement parts in the future for any issues that *do* crop up.

As far as track turbo Miata reliability (NA/NB), I'd say the solutions are out there to run a very solid 200-250 rwhp car.  You need quality parts, you need to aggressively address areas like the transmission, cooling, and brakes, but that's all fairly straightforward.  Going up from there is less well-charted waters.