I've owned all 4 generations of The Answer. The NC is my favorite.

Between my wife and I, we've now owned all 4 generations of Miata. Over the years, we've owned quite a few Miata's: 

-1990 NA6
-2004 Mazdaspeed NB
-1992 NA6
-2018 ND1
-1994 NA8
-2009 NC2

Out of all of them, the NC is my favorite. In some circles I might be burned at the stake for speaking such blasphemy. 

To give some context, I'm 6'2", 210 lbs. The NC has by far the most space for my frame, which certainly plays into this equation. The NC has nearly the same amount of space as my S2000, despite being 300+ lbs lighter than my AP2! In order of which one do I fit it: 

1. NC. It's not even close, both in the headroom and legroom departments (although I do occasionally get jabbed by the door handle/cup holder in my left leg). 

2. NA. The NA's simple interior offers me the 2nd most space; especially after a mild foamectomy and door pull straps. 

3. ND. The ND isn't terrible, but my NA's felt far more spacious/less cramped inside. The ND was by far the hardest to get in and out of with the top up and felt the most claustrophobic, both due to the intruding door trim and windshield that sits close to my face. Once inside, the legroom was pretty good; the headroom was tight with the top up. Not sure if it matters, but we had the Club trim with the Recaro seats. 

4. NB. For whatever reason, the NB was always the tightest fit for me. I had a hard time getting comfortable in that car. Not sure if an NB1 would have been better, but the NB2 was a tight fit. 

Car prices are incredibly high right now, but prior to this madness, with the prices on NC's getting so low, I haven't understood why the NC wasn't the track junkie machine that the NA/NB have turned into. On equal rubber, the NC is substantially faster than the NA/NB in any contest I can think of. The torsional rigidity/chassis stiffness of the NC is more than double what the original NA was.... it's so much more solid and direct vs the NA/NB. The chassis feels like it could take considerably more power without falling apart. 

I hear the arguments of the NC being a "boat" and I guess I just don't understand them. According the Mazda, the Miata has had the following curb weights: 

1990- 2116 lbs (base, completely stripped out car)

-Package A (power steering, etc) 2182 lbs

-Package B (cruise, power Windows) 2189 lbs

-A/C was optional (added weight)- about 40 lbs
-ABS was 

Actual weight when you added in power steering and A/C was likely closer to the 2220 lbs range. That was with either 5.5" or 6" wide wheels. 
 

In 1992 Mazda updated their curb weight (unknown trim) to 2216 lbs. 
 

In 1994 Mazda updated the curb weight (unknown trim) to 2293 lbs. That was with the addition of the 1.8L engine, updated safety/airbag requirements, the bigger rear differential and a bit of chassis bracing to help it feel like less of a limp noodle. 
 

With the intorduction of the NB in 1999 Mazda rated the car at 2299 lbs. 

In 2003, Mazda added wider 6.5" wheels, sport brakes, additional chassis bracing, (VVT engine was added in 2001), etc. The result was that the 5MT weighed 2443 lbs and the 6MT weighed 2454 lbs. It remained roughly the same through 2005. 

When the NC1 debuted in 2006, the stripped out Club spec weighed only 2441 lbs. It was literally rated at weighing less than the NB2 it replaced... if you added in A/C or stepped it up to the Touring trim, it weighed 2474 lbs. The 6MT with 17" wheels weighed 2498 lbs. Weights for the updated NC2 in 2009 went up a whopping 6 lbs on average. 

Essentially, the NC and NB2 were almost identical in weight... despite the NC being a far stiffer, more capable chassis. The NC came with a substantial power bump, heavy use of aluminum (aluminum front control arms, rear hubs and chassis bracing), wider wheels, strong brakes, standard ABS (optional on NB), a more comfortable interior, bigger fender wells and it still came with hydraulic power steering. 

At only 2332 lbs, the ND is the most capable Miata ever made. No doubt. Prices certainly reflect as much. Although I do wish it retained hydraulic power steering (the EPS box is muted compared to the NA/NB/NC)... as someone who has crawled underneath all 4 generations of Miata, I know a lot of people say it's a more modern NA; to which I would disagree. I would say it's a smaller NC, as it has more in common with the NC- double wishbone front with multi-link rear suspension (like NC, the NA/NB had double A-arms front and rear), aluminum control arms, aluminum chassis bracing, aluminum 2.0L engine, 17" wheels, etc. To me, the ND is like a 3" shorter NC. Ignoring the EPS, the ND feels more like the NC than it does the NA to me. Just a good bit smaller inside, which is my biggest complaint, followed by the lack of steering feel. 

On face value, the original stripped out 1990 NA looks like an absolute featherweight compared to the NC... but when you add in power steering (standard on the NC, and helpful with wide, sticky track wheels/tires), more grip through wider wheels/tires, mandatory modern safety items (airbags, etc on the NB), bigger brakes to aid in track work (like the 2003+ brakes on the NB), chassis bracing to help the chassis feel more stable and a bigger rear differential (added in 1994, drastically improving the rear end reliability, especially on track) you end up with an NB that weighs just about the same as the "boaty" NC. 

With that in mind, I never understood many of the track guys that complained about the NC's weight, all while adding bigger NA8/NB rear diffs into their NA6's... frame rails, butterfly braces, frog arms, etc to add chassis rigidity... bigger brakes for track work... and bigger, wider wheels for more grip... at that point, after owning all 4 generations of Miata, the NC just seems like a better place to start. Well, it would be if it had the insane aftermarket of the NA/NB, which is substantially bigger than the NC's. 

While the NC is certainly no Lotus Elise, at 2400-2500 lbs, it's over 200 lbs lighter than the BRZ/FR-S/86 and 300 lbs lighter than the S2000. Neither of which are considered heavy for modern day cars. 

If prices of an NC are double what they are for the NA/NB, I totally understand saving the cash and getting the NA/NB. If prices start to become close to each other (like they were a year ago), there's no doubt in my mind, I would get the NC. It's faster, it's more comfortable for bigger guys, it's easier to live with and it's actually more fun to drive on a back road to someone like me; not because of the extra speed, but because of the confidence the more solid chassis gives you. 

These are all just opinions from an idiot with too much time on his hands. YMMV. 

We've had NA, NB and NC.  Test drove an ND when they first came out.

The NC PRHT is definitely the best street Miata, IMHO.  No question.  It lacks the purity of the NA, but makes up for it in real world usability.  The ND may be better dynamically, but you can't get a PRHT, and the RF doesn't count.  That gives the win to the NC... and we haven't even talked about transmission failures yet...

On track, stock to stock, the ND would probably edge out the NC.  Both are better than NA/NB stock to stock.  NA/NB are going up in price, and the NC is at/near the bottom of the depreciation curve.  So when you factor price/mods into the equation, NC wins again.  And transmission issues are a definite ND weakness.  

I'm way too far into our NA to change course at this point, but if I were starting over, I would buy an NC for a track car.  Better chassis, room for bigger rubber, more power stock.

We have an NB for the street, mostly because I got it dirt cheap.  But the NC is a better street car.

Just a shame it is the ugliest of the series.  not that I think the D is all that much better.

In reply to mad_machine (Forum Supporter) :

I didn't like NCs for a long time, but an NC3 with big rubber and suspension looks pretty good, IMHO...

IMHO the ND is the ugly duckling of the family... it's really awkward from several angles in person.  The Fiata is much better looking in person.

The NC certainly needs to be lowered with 9" wheels to look good, but they look really good like that. Even the early ones can look pretty good in the right color. I've never driven a NC but it sure seems like it would be the best compromise/all around one. I test drove a ND and liked it but wasn't floored by it. It was definitely more comfortable to be in than my NA, but the cowl shake didn't seem much better. If that 100lbs in the NC went into chassis rigidity that seems well worth the "cost".

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the ND's looks - I find the Fiata has awkward angles while the ND is a more cohesive design. Particularly the RF, when that model came out it became clear the car was designed as the RF and then the top was chopped off. You can get a good angle of the Fiat for pictures but then you take two steps to one side and it gets clumsy. This opinion is worth what you paid for it :)

I think one big reason the NA/NB is the track toy of choice is that it was well established by the time the NC came out. And even more well established by the time the NC got to the point of being the sort of car that became a dedicated track car. They were all over tracks with the ecosystem to match. And the NC1/NC2 "sport" suspension was atrociously tuned so the car just felt all floppy out of the box, giving the car a reputation it didn't really deserve and attracting a demographic that was more interested in the correct car polish than the best track tire. This handicapped the aftermarket out of the gate, as there was no market for performance products. The NC market is still the weakest of the bunch. And then a large percentage of the cars sold were PRHTs, which can't really be fitted with a roll bar.

To me, it's a matter of joy. The NC is certainly capable enough, but there's only one time I've had a truly memorable track experience on one - and that involved a supercharger and some tires that weren't up to the task. The ND brought that back immediately, adding a crispness and playfulness that the NC seemed to lack. 

I've often characterised the NA/NB vs NC as the early cars feel faster than they are, while the NC is faster than it feels. This is great if you're competing, but what if you're just out to have fun?

Keith Tanner said:

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the ND's looks - I find the Fiata has awkward angles while the ND is a more cohesive design. Particularly the RF, when that model came out it became clear the car was designed as the RF and then the top was chopped off. You can get a good angle of the Fiat for pictures but then you take two steps to one side and it gets clumsy. This opinion is worth what you paid for it :)

But have you seen the Fiata from the angle of watching it get towed away on a flatbed? :..(

Rodan said:

We've had NA, NB and NC.  Test drove an ND when they first came out.

The NC PRHT is definitely the best street Miata, IMHO.  No question.  It lacks the purity of the NA, but makes up for it in real world usability.  The ND may be better dynamically, but you can't get a PRHT, and the RF doesn't count.  That gives the win to the NC... and we haven't even talked about transmission failures yet...

On track, stock to stock, the ND would probably edge out the NC.  Both are better than NA/NB stock to stock.  NA/NB are going up in price, and the NC is at/near the bottom of the depreciation curve.  So when you factor price/mods into the equation, NC wins again.  And transmission issues are a definite ND weakness.  

I'm way too far into our NA to change course at this point, but if I were starting over, I would buy an NC for a track car.  Better chassis, room for bigger rubber, more power stock.

We have an NB for the street, mostly because I got it dirt cheap.  But the NC is a better street car.

 

Funny you mention being too far into your NA to start over... my NA8 was my dedicated track car. I got pretty far into chassis upgrades (roll bar, full suspension bushings, extended lower ball joints, R outer tie rods, steering rack bushings, bracing, etc), but when I got to power upgrades, I decided to sell the NA and focus my funds on the NC. At that time, it was either boost (likely some form of Rotrex to keep some reliability on track) or K24 swap it. The K24 swap was appealing, but with the difficulty of the swap, combined with the amount of money it was going to cost (I was budgeting in the $10k range), plus losing hydraulic power steering (KMiata will sell you an EPS unit for $1000, otherwise you have to run a manual rack), the NC just felt like a better place to start. 

With that said, I not-so-secretly hope the NC aftermarket grows into what the NA/NB aftermarket is. If you want big power in the early cars, boost aside, there are engine swaps galore: LS V8, Ford 302 V8, Chevy LFX V6, Honda J-V6, Rocketeer V6, Chevy Ecotec 4, Honda K-series... 

Meanwhile, the NC has only the 2.5L swap (popular, and adds a good bit of extra torque, but not a ton of power over the OEM 2.0L), the LS V8 and somewhat of an LFX V6 swap kit. It seems that the LFX V6 swap for the NC isn't as complete as the kit for the NA/NB. Unfortunately, the more capable chassis doesn't have nearly as many power options. 

Keith Tanner said:

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the ND's looks - I find the Fiata has awkward angles while the ND is a more cohesive design. Particularly the RF, when that model came out it became clear the car was designed as the RF and then the top was chopped off. You can get a good angle of the Fiat for pictures but then you take two steps to one side and it gets clumsy. This opinion is worth what you paid for it :)

I think one big reason the NA/NB is the track toy of choice is that it was well established by the time the NC came out. And even more well established by the time the NC got to the point of being the sort of car that became a dedicated track car. They were all over tracks with the ecosystem to match. And the NC1/NC2 "sport" suspension was atrociously tuned so the car just felt all floppy out of the box, giving the car a reputation it didn't really deserve and attracting a demographic that was more interested in the correct car polish than the best track tire. This handicapped the aftermarket out of the gate, as there was no market for performance products. The NC market is still the weakest of the bunch. And then a large percentage of the cars sold were PRHTs, which can't really be fitted with a roll bar.

To me, it's a matter of joy. The NC is certainly capable enough, but there's only one time I've had a truly memorable track experience on one - and that involved a supercharger and some tires that weren't up to the task. The ND brought that back immediately, adding a crispness and playfulness that the NC seemed to lack. 

I've often characterised the NA/NB vs NC as the early cars feel faster than they are, while the NC is faster than it feels. This is great if you're competing, but what if you're just out to have fun?

 

I think you're right about why the market for the NC is so far behind the NA/NB. Hopefully the NC becomes cheap enough one day for them to start becoming more dedicated track cars, so the aftermarket can grow away from the plush, nail polish matching types that have purchased them in the past. 

I agree with there also being too many PRHT's built that can't run a roll-bar... I wonder if the ND RF will one day run into the same problemt? 

With that said, my wife and I have owned both an NC2 and ND1... both came with Bilstein's from the factory... the NC was more fun to drive. The ND1 was the most floaty, body rolling, disconnected Miata we've ever owned. The ND is absolutely the more capable chassis (it's lighter and quicker), but in stock form, I found the NC more engaging and fun to toss around. With aftermarket suspension, the ND felt worlds better than stock, but stock vs stock, I was not impressed with the ND's excessive body roll. It reduced the amount of fun I had in that car. 

On the street, I find the NC to be more fun than my NA's. My short geared MSM was also pretty fun on the street, but the NC is my favorite. I'm down in the Denver area. I know you guys live in the mountains; I do quite a bit of canyon driving and the more planted chassis feel of the NC (stock vs stock) made the NC more fun to drive in the canyons than my old NA's. It's also more fun to drive in traffic (is there a such thing?). I didn't really enjoy my NA much in the canyons until I picked up a bigger front roll bar, replaced all the bushings, put on wider/stickier wheels/tires and got an alignment. Prior to that, they were a bit skiddish. The NC was not. 

Admittedly, I've spent far more time in NA's on track than I have the NC. At the same build level, the NC is more fun to me... but my NA8 was more fun with a more built suspension. I'm curious to see how I feel when the NC is built to the same level. 

This is coming from someone who also has an AP2 S2000, and despite it's EPS, I enjoy the feel of that car, generally over our Miata's. So, maybe just a slight difference in taste? 

You owned an NC2 with Bilsteins and you think the ND is poorly valved? Wow. Our 2006 Sport with 3500 miles was the only car I've ever driven that lost the plot driving in a straight line on the business loop near our shop. Getting those Bilsteins out of the car ASAP was critical. Mazda's made some bad valving choices, but the NC1/NC2 Bilstein was the worst of the bunch by far. Unless it was fixed in the NC2, but I think it wasn't until the NC3 came out that they got it sorted. Put a set of decent shocks on the car and they're so much better.

The ND rolls, by design. It moves over the surface. But it doesn't let the body get out of control like those earlier NCs did. Maybe you would have preferred the earlier valving of the ND's Bilsteins, they were overdamped and harsh. Sure felt sporty but it wasn't as fluid. Not everyone agrees with these dynamic decisions but the current ND2 Club suspension is probably the best one Mazda's ever put under a car in terms of composure on a rowdy road.

There's a roll bar that works with the RF top on the market, has been for a couple of years. I think another one has just been introduced.

The NC is already cheap enough to be a dedicated track car, and magazines are trying to champion it as the next big thing. But the buying market doesn't seem to reflect that. It'll be interesting to see in 5 years if the ND has leapfrogged it or if the BRZ takes the crown instead. 

The NC is definitely faster. If your fun is measured by your lap time, it's more fun than an NA. 

I've owned an NA8 and driven an NC. If I buy another Miata, it will be an NC.

When the ND came out, I was invited to a small autocross event by Mazda Canada. I was able to compare an end of the line sport NC to the new ND. 

I was asked at the end of the event which one I preferred and I was a little shy to answer that I preferred the NC. Not only was it larger inside, but it felt a lot sharper then the ND around the cones. Haven't tried the ND2, but I would be curious to.

I autocross in my friends well prepared NB and I own an RX8 and I also don't get the NC hate. When I'll be ready to switch to a retirement-mobile, a late series NC will be on top of my list.

Keith Tanner said:

You owned an NC2 with Bilsteins and you think the ND is poorly valved? Wow. Our 2006 Sport with 3500 miles was the only car I've ever driven that lost the plot driving in a straight line on the business loop near our shop. Getting those Bilsteins out of the car ASAP was critical. Mazda's made some bad valving choices, but the NC1/NC2 Bilstein was the worst of the bunch by far. Unless it was fixed in the NC2, but I think it wasn't until the NC3 came out that they got it sorted. Put a set of decent shocks on the car and they're so much better.

The ND rolls, by design. It moves over the surface. But it doesn't let the body get out of control like those earlier NCs did. Maybe you would have preferred the earlier valving of the ND's Bilsteins, they were overdamped and harsh. Sure felt sporty but it wasn't as fluid. Not everyone agrees with these dynamic decisions but the current ND2 Club suspension is probably the best one Mazda's ever put under a car in terms of composure on a rowdy road.

There's a roll bar that works with the RF top on the market, has been for a couple of years. I think another one has just been introduced.

The NC is already cheap enough to be a dedicated track car, and magazines are trying to champion it as the next big thing. But the buying market doesn't seem to reflect that. It'll be interesting to see in 5 years if the ND has leapfrogged it or if the BRZ takes the crown instead. 

The NC is definitely faster. If your fun is measured by your lap time, it's more fun than an NA. 

I'm not smart enough to know if the ND was poorly valved or not. All I know is that our ND1's  body roll was excessive, disconcerting and the car felt disconnected. Take that however you would like my friend! I can't comment on the NC1, as I don't have much experience with it. All I know is that I felt more connected with my NC2 than I did our ND1 and the NC2 felt more fun to drive. 

I've seen all the arguments with why the ND rolls so much... I've heard the explanations by Dave Coleman, who is a brilliant man. I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. On paper, I'm sure it's perfectly valved. In the real world I prefer a car that transitions more quickly and feels more planted. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that way. That's probably why I prefer the OEM suspension on my S2000 over every stock Miata I've ever driven. That's also probably why my Miata's always end up on aftermarket suspension haha! 

Different strokes for different folks. With that said, big thanks to you guys for actually giving folks like me more suspension options!  

Having owned NA and nc I love my nc. 

The NA it was like a little puppy dog around the cones. The NC felt like it knew what it was doing. It was the puppy all grown up and with purpose. I have to agree that the NC does need some suspension to feel like a competent car. It helps to stuff some 245s underneath it. 

fanfoy said:

When the ND came out, I was invited to a small autocross event by Mazda Canada. I was able to compare an end of the line sport NC to the new ND. 

I was asked at the end of the event which one I preferred and I was a little shy to answer that I preferred the NC. Not only was it larger inside, but it felt a lot sharper then the ND around the cones. Haven't tried the ND2, but I would be curious to.

I autocross in my friends well prepared NB and I own an RX8 and I also don't get the NC hate. When I'll be ready to switch to a retirement-mobile, a late series NC will be on top of my list.

The NC does have a very pointy front end, it's baked into the suspension geometry. I can see how it would feel good around the cones on first blush. I know Jeremy at FM likes the NC a lot because of that front end and because he's tall enough that fit becomes more important for him. 

Around our local kart track, the ND1 felt less at sea than the NC did with both in stock form. The NC doesn't really roll any less but that pointy front may make it feel better in fast transitions. We also learned very quickly that you needed a proper alignment on the ND to make that steering feel good, although a lot of people do confuse weight for feel and ask for less assist (it's baked into the rack, alas).

The NC never seems to get up on its toes and dance for me without a very specific setup. The ND does, it seems to live for some slip angle. When testing the V8 versions, the NC had a solid feel but the ND was the one that had me sliding it around and laughing within a couple of laps because it just felt so comfortable and familiar. The NC V8 was a great GT that didn't feel at home on the small track in the same way. Very easy car to live with day to day though.

FYI, here's a comparison video I did a few weeks ago.

I haven't spent any time on a track with the ND, but have to agree with the OP on everything else.  My '07 MS-R was just a hoot to drive - forgiving and easy to drive at the limit.  It was just happy on the track and ran well against a bunch of theoretically faster cars (S2K, 350Z, C4s).  The header/intake/tune/etc made a big difference, taking the car from adequate to eager.  It was seconds faster around the home track than my NA8 with similar mods.  Wish I still had it, would be about time for a 2.5 transplant.

double post

maschinenbau said:

Keith Tanner said:

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the ND's looks - I find the Fiata has awkward angles while the ND is a more cohesive design. Particularly the RF, when that model came out it became clear the car was designed as the RF and then the top was chopped off. You can get a good angle of the Fiat for pictures but then you take two steps to one side and it gets clumsy. This opinion is worth what you paid for it :)

But have you seen the Fiata from the angle of watching it get towed away on a flatbed? :..(

Dude, that makes me feel horrible, and I don't own that car....

Ive always liked the NC, it was the first miata I really liked and got me into the miata world. Its also the only miata I havent owned. I ended up getting an ND, but what I really wanted was a turbo NC. At the time my research found you can get a blower or a bad turbo kit. I believe another turbo set up or two have come out and they are very expensive, and tuning options arent great. 

If people start building decent turbo kits for street cars with a good tuning solution, in the vein of the FM2 kit for the NA/NB or the MKturbo stuff for a people on more of a budget, Ill probably hop back into miatas and get w PRHT

Until then the 1LE, serves as a good car, and a toy so no need for a slower cruiser.

In reply to Opti :

What? Fab9 and host of other companies have great turbo kits for the nc. 

roninsoldier83 said: Unfortunately, the more capable chassis doesn't have nearly as many power options. 

That's kind of for a reason though. The 09+ 2.0L are the by FAR most capable Miata engine out of the box when it comes to holding big power made by forced induction. For those that don't know, the 09+ 2.0L in the NC has forged internals. There's 400 whp STOCK block NC's out there. Try doing that with NA/NB/ND/ND2 for more than a few dyno pulls (they won't even make it close). Obviously keeping those alive on track is a different story, but the NC can run more HP reliably in a track situation then all the rest. 

I.E there's less need for swaps when you start with a good engine first. 

In reply to Opti :

I don't have the expertise to say directly, but years of watching the forums leads me to believe that the NC ECU still hasn't really been totally figured out.  There's a couple of  piggyback/reflash type solutions out there, but my opinion is that there's still stuff going on in the ECU that affects the tune and causes problems.   The local guy who bought our NC Club turboed it, had issues, and blew up the motor.  There have been a few other turbos with issues on the forums.  The power scene for the 2.0/2.5 in the NC is way better than it was 4-5 years ago, but there's still not a lot of options.  And there's only a couple of guys nationwide that really have experience tuning the NC.  And at least one of those avoids/ignores any direct/tough questions over on M.net, so I'd be very hesitant to send him my car. 

People who are reflashing are making educated guesses. They've found some tables by reverse engineering and found that if they mess with a particular table, this thing happens. But they don't know if they've found ALL the tables or factors, and it turns out that tuning an ECU is actually quite a difficult thing :) It's easy to do badly. This applies to standalones as well, but at least with standalones you have 100% knowledge of how everything interacts.

Would you HUSH until I can buy one already!