JG in the F500

JG, does getting into your race car involve shoehorns and butter?

I laughed so hard I feel kinda bad about it XD

So, compared to Auto-Xing something hot and Japanese, how was it?

Tell us more. Lap times in F500/600 cars indicate that they are seriously fast--but what are they actually like to drive?

I want to comment, but at 6'2 270lb I'm the LAST person who should comment. I resemble the struggle. Spec Miata isn't like a kart, it IS a kart.

Hey guys---- J.G. is in Germany currently. I'm sure he'll chime in when he gets a chance, but it may take a bit.

jj wrote: My co-worker is selling one of these for 3k including the trailer. How are they to drive?

Where does your co-worker work?

Well I will take up the torch as JG can't comment and I purchased an 87 Novakar last August after having driven a friends 2006 Novakar. First the acceleration is very very good, 750-800lbs with driver and 100hp at the wheels, so 0-60 times are in the 3 to 3.5 second range. Cornering force is up to 2Gs on an Autocorss course. I paid $2000 for the car plus $1400 getting it and all the spares shipped from Michigan to Vegas. The cars use isolastic rubber pucks for suspension, the design is such that you can change spring rates and damping by changing the pull rod positions or puck durameter. My car was set up for road racing so it's needed some serious set up changes. Event 1 I ran it as purchased, heavy understeer on corner entry but I was still 4th. For event 2 I moved the pull rod position to soften the front this made the understeer manageable I was 3rd , I might have nabbed 2nd but didn't realize how much fuel the car used (2 gallons minimum) and it starved for fuel on my last run. Event 3 I raised the rear ride height to get more front bite I pushed the car too much, through away me best runs which would have snagged FTD but ended up 4th (again) about 4 tenths back. The F500 community has been great, the cars builder Jay Novak has given all sorts of tips (the car is the 3rd of the original 5 prototypes) and in most recent post on F500.org national champ Jeff Colgrove also gave me some advice on alignment; whereas I have 1/8 inch toe in and -1 degree of negative camber I should be running 1/8 toe out, -2-2.5 camber and I need to raise the rear ride another 3/4 of an inch. The big deal on these cars like most single seaters is to NOT attempt to drive around issues but instead change the set up. So what are the like to drive? First you will end up looking twice as far as you are used to in a street car; in a 5 cone slalom I'm working cone #5 while the car is clearing the first cone, the limit to slalom speeds is pretty much how fast you can steer, brake 15ft later than you think you should, as you can see the tires in relation to the cones you can cut them within millimeters but don't forget about the back tires.......this is how I trashed my best runs. The CVT drivetrain is awesome for autocross, left foot brake preload the throttle and the car leaps off corners. Having started road racing small bore 2 stroke GP bikes I really like 2 stroke engines, they pick up revs like not 4 stroke can, they are cheap to run and should you break it cheap to fix as you won't be pounding any valves into the head. Basically you preload the throttle right below the clutch engagement RPM, gas it, as the clutch grabs let off the brake and the car launches off the line, as you arrive at a gate brake hard, pick up the throttle as you're easing off the brake then as soon as you start turning in, roll on the gas and throttle steer it through as it builds lateral force. When it's pointed in the right direction unwind the wheel get to full throttle quickly and let the car go where it wants.......hopefully that is where you want.....as mentioned lots of planning. When you get it right the view out the helmet looks just like Lewis Hamilton's on board camera shots, when you get it wrong the view is first year drivers Ed student film, the difference between right and wrong is about 1/2 mph corner entry speed......even when you get it wrong they are still huge fun. About a decade ago I had a D-Sports Racer so the corner speeds were something I'd experienced. A F500 should be 3-4 seconds faster than any production car and quite capable of FTD, 135-140 mph top speeds are common on road courses so for autocross they have more than enough power. The other bonus is tires are about $170 each and you'll get a full season out of them if not more. Additionally the motor, Rotax snowmobile engines, must remain none stock. Including tires you can run one for $900 a year, my understanding is the folks running Nationals buy two sets of tires for the year. I have traditionally had a love hate relationship with single seaters, love driving them hate owning them but with the F500 there are no shocks in need of rebuilding, no need for the latest trick motor part or close ratio gear sets. You need some jets, stock Polaris clutch springs & fly weights which are cheap. If you get a chance to drive one, do it, you'll be amazed at how much performance they offer for so few dollars. Fast time of day for the price of what people are spending for a 15-20 year old Miata.

Tom

Hips, butt and legs go in just fine. That part actually surprised me. Shoulders, no way in hell. I had to cut out the upper part of the cage to get enough shoulder room to autocross the thing properly. Turns out it's actually a pretty common autocross mod for the KBS/Intruder cars. Take out the upper fore/aft bars and turn it from a lay down into a semi-sit-up car. Give you more wheel leverage and better vision, but also gives the whole thing a bit of a circus bear on a bicycle look to it. Greg Shucker has about a foot of height and 100lbs on me, and he was even able to set up his car to fit him nicely. Heck he's almost got more room than me the way his is set up.

Bottom line is in most of these cars—especially in autocross trim, there's TONs of space accessible if you're willing to do a little fab work. I'm living, buttered proof. For road racing it's a bit tougher as the cage rules are a bit more strict, but it can still be done.

Driving wise, the car is awesome. Fun, predictable, and drivable. Tons of usable slip angle from the slicks. The big thing that transformed my car was the right clutch setup. We went with a FormulaX-1.com clutch setup and it made the car way more drivable. Mel at FX1 has been building race snowmobiles forever, so he knows his stuff. He recuts the ramps on the secondary clutch to delay disengagement of the clutch off-throttle (also known as "back shifting"). This gives you a lot more usable throttle modulation in slower corners, and no disengagement of the clutch that you have to compensate for when applying throttle in corners. You don't have to worry about preloading or throttling early.

And despite the spool rear end, the low-speed handling is rather good. We've found ways to tune around it to help it turn better in autocross situations, and we've got more in mind, but we're not sure if we'll be able to implement them.

Consumables are cheap, because there practically are none. I doubt I'll ever have to buy brake pads for the thing. I run race fuel and racing two stroke oil, but five gallons has so far lasted me through several events, so that's cheap as well.

And it tows behind the Roadbastard so well you barely know it's there.

Here's video from the Daytona AutoX a Couple weeks ago. Won FMod, third overall behind two shifter karts, 8th in PAX of 170-odd cars. Not bad for $5k

https://vimeo.com/126760682

JG I have a Polaris clutch but regardless I preload the throttle in pretty much everything I race. I think this is a left over habit from my motorcycle racing. As for cockpit, at 5' 7" and 140lbs I pretty much fit in everything but I usually have to had padding and did in the Novakar. My car still has the AMW motor, which for autocross is not a huge issue, once the spares are used up the plan is to go to a Rotax. The car is still jetted for Michigan so it's a bit fat for Vegas. Looking at the video your courses appear to a little more open then ours. My goal is to beat the shifter karts, fixing the balance should get me very close, if that fails then I'll go to Rotax 593 sooner than planned as it has 17 HP more than the AMW..............and if that fails I shall through my helmet down and stomp my feet...........that should get me a Formula One car.

  Tom

The 593 is intriguing. My car is a 494, which pretty much all of the competitive cars are right now. I've heard good and bad about the 593 as compared to the 494. Conventional wisdom is the 494 is stone reliable and the 593 is not, but it's got a few more horsepower.

Cars also have to run heavier with the 593. 850lbs vs 800 for the 494. That's actually good for me since my car (and the driver) are rather overweight. My car is almost 100 lbs heavier than Darren Seltzer's (actually Greg Shumaker's) reigning championship car. I can trim a few pounds here and there, but for me to make minimum weight both me and the car would have to lose an almost impossible amount of mass. Making minimum with a 593 would actually be doable, though. The question is: is the additional power worth it?

I think for me the answer is to run the 494 until it requires serious money to make it right, then make a decision. If I get to the point where the 494 needs $1200 worth of rebuild, but $1600 would install a 593, that's an easy decision. Not sure if the math works that way, but we'll see.

And this course was a bad example as it was on the Kart track on Daytona's infield. Mostly I run with Dixie Region and their courses are very Nationals-like on a good concrete site.

The weight for the 593 is a concern; as it is I am 60lbs underweight, my son is another 20lbs lighter so we could in theory have to add upwards of a 180lbs to the car.......yikes!!! As for the course, I seem to recall you run here in Vegas a time or two, we tend to have long narrow courses and inevitably there is a 30-40ft diameter hairpin on the course. I should have changed the set up straight away but wanted to try one thing at a time so I could see the effect. This of course has lasted 3 events becuase I or more accurately my ego can't take finishing behind the door slammers. The car is still fun as hell though.

 Tom