Joeys first challenge pricing question

OK. So I bought my 1992 Miata 5.5 years ago for $4500 with 92k miles on it, and a clean body. Since then, it has now 192k miles on it, serious rust in the lower rockers and front fenders (I never drove it in the salt, stupid PO did) and gotten the rear left corner smeared off it by an old women in a Malibu. Crumpled quarter panel, destroyed taillight, ruined bumper, distorted tail panel. Nasty looking, but still drivable. The car runs pretty well, but the engine is tired. It just feels looser or something than or 1990 with 95k miles on it. So its an ugly, high mileage but still a blast to drive Miata, with Racing Beat sway bars, springs, intake, bosal exhaust, KYB shocks and lots of other goodies. None of the aftermarket stuff has less than 50k miles on it, except maybe the shocks, which may be around 30k, but I'm not sure.

So what, if I took it to the challenge, is this thing worth? Do I put a FMV of 500 bucks on it? I know I would have to think hard on buying this thing for 500, but I'm cheap. I'm not going to sell it, either. I bought another body, a clean 1994 tub from Metalman las year, and will change everything over at some point soon.

What do you all think, if I should ever take it to the challenge?

Joey

Let's see some photos.

I'll buy it for $500. Today. Problem solved!

I am closer and have more money ;)

David, It is roached pretty well the rockers don't, the trailer lights screwed into the quarter sell it!

put it up on ebay with no buy-it-now option, but a relatively high reserve (say, 3k)

whatever it ends at, is FMV. if someone actually wants to pay 3k for it, you can get a better one with the money

bluej wrote: put it up on ebay with no buy-it-now option, but a relatively high reserve (say, 3k) whatever it ends at, is FMV. if someone actually wants to pay 3k for it, you can get a better one with the money

Wouldn't that be the Maximum Value? Just because one guy bid it up higher, doesn't mean most people would buy it for that. I always thought of FMV as being what most people would pay.

Joey

well, sort of. the ending bid wouldn't be the max that one guy is willing, but just a little more than what the next highest to him is willing to pay.

or use crazedlist.org to find ones of similar condition in the same region of the country and go by about 80% of the asking price for those and take an average. wouldn't cost an ebay listing either.

I'll give $800.00 for the Aspire R/T in the background ;)

Just my $.02:

I don't think the purpose of FMV is to devalue stuff that you know what you paid for, but more stuff that you got for free/stuff from the E36 M3 pile that any good OCD "collector" type should have. Not trying to piss on your parade, just taking a stab at what Per would likely say.

While eBay often isn't the best gauge of FMV for cars IMO, as the prices tend to be a bit inflated (have you seen what 1g crx's/3g civics are going for!?-) here is a car that appears to be in similar condition to yours:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___miata-mx-5-1992-fixer-upper-fun-little-soft-top_W0QQitemZ180298178066QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180298178066&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

poopshovel wrote: Just my $.02: I don't think the purpose of FMV is to devalue stuff that you know what you paid for, but more stuff that you got for free/stuff from the E36 M3 pile that any good OCD "collector" type should have. Not trying to piss on your parade, just taking a stab at what Per would likely say. While eBay often isn't the best gauge of FMV for cars IMO, as the prices tend to be a bit inflated (have you seen what 1g crx's/3g civics are going for!?-) here is a car that appears to be in similar condition to yours: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___miata-mx-5-1992-fixer-upper-fun-little-soft-top_W0QQitemZ180298178066QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180298178066&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

I see what you mean. But obviously, this thing is not a 4500 Miata any more. Is it not Challengable? (is that a word?) Because it was bought several years ago for more than challenge price?

Or, lets take it another direction. Start with the 1994 tub I bought for 400 from Metalman. What would the value of my front clip, motor, interior, top, and trans/rearend be? I know what I bought all that stuff for, 4500, but it is now all in pieces, and not worth that.

What to do, what to do.

Joey

BUT you wouldn't be using your engine or transmission... You would be using the $50.00 5.0L and T5!

gimme $50 and i'll post a CL ad for a miata that sounds just like yours, with an asking price of $500. you print out the ad and use that as your FMV justification. now wasn't that easy?!

i keed, i keed!

i would agree with poop if it sounded like you were trying to devalue your car to make it eligible. sounds like time and mileage have truly already devalued it for you.

i think this scenario would be fair: 1. find three ads for same year / make / model, and average them. 2. get insurance estimate for repairs required to make yours "whole" again 3. add up all the aftermarket stuff and divide in half. 4. subtract estimate from average, add half of aftermarket parts value, and that's what yours is worth. 5. (option) If insurance co says yours is totalled, find out what it would cost you to buy it back. make sure the ins co knows about the aftermarket parts, because that could change the buyback.

or:

take a poll of all miatas to ever be in the challenge. average their initial purchase prices, and use that as your starting point.

take a poll of all miatas to ever be in the challenge. average their initial purchase prices, and use that as your starting point.

+1. There was no shortage of them there this year. Also, FWIW, looks like a $500 turd to me, assuming the

lots of other goodies.

don't add up to a lot.

The insurance paid me off 3943 bucks for the damage. I think I paid 4500 for the car. That means the car is worth 557 bucks? Never mind the rust and mileage?

Maybe I should go the other way, and build it out of the 1994 body.

???

Joey

ugh, that thing's hideous. i'm with Mr. Shovel, looks like a $500 starting point to me.

agreed as well, $500 turd

Either way, the pics of rust are making me feel a lot better about my rust LOL Have fun with the build, and maybe I will see you at the next challenge!

I'd be good with the $500, but I'm not so happy about the "lot of other goodies." I would have to add those in separately at FMV for them as well.

I wonder how I can write that as a rule that makes sense...as this question does come up a lot.

"Stock cars that are already owned by the Challenge entrant may be used as Challenge cars with a starting budget amount of current fair market value. Any modifications or aftermarket parts that are installed must be also counted separately at fair market value."

Baxter: can you add that into the Challenge rule section under budgets and update the "last updated" date? thanks.

Don't forget to include the price of the wanna be Corvette tail lights on the left side

Per Schroeder wrote: "Stock cars that are already owned by the Challenge entrant may be used as Challenge cars with a starting budget amount of current fair market value. Any modifications or aftermarket parts that are installed must be also counted separately at fair market value."

That actually makes sense to me... when i valued my 924, i went to ebay, craigslist, ect.. to see what they going for. equivalent cars. they needed to be non running (like mine was) in need of some body work (like mine is) and mostly in stock condition and have an intact drive train , suspension etc. (just like mine.) I found plenty, averaged the prices, and also came up with $500, which may be a bit high actually (after all, it is a 924.) but i figured it was better to be a bit high in my estimate, than too low. after adding any necessary new parts at face value plus shipping, i am still well under budget and now with the purchase of a parts car, ill end up with a highly upgraded 924 (mostly stock parts from 924,944, and a very few aftermarket pieces) and still at least $500 under budget.

Yeah, the other goodies, Like the intake, was bought used years ago for 20 bucks, the exhaust was, I dunno, about 50, used. The springs and sways are around 50k old, and they are in rough shape, cosmetically. They still work great, and dont sag, but alot of the paint is peeling off. The AGXs were about 300 on ebay, a few years ago. They seem to be more expensive now, but I could be remembering wrong. They are not fresh and new, by any stretch, though. I couldnt find a set used, tho get a bearing on that, though.

Im probably not coming to the challenge anytime soon, but it would be fun to try to rebuild this car on a challenge friendly budget, in case I do!

Joey

AngryCorvair wrote: gimme $50 and i'll post a CL ad for a miata that sounds just like yours, with an asking price of $500. you print out the ad and use that as your FMV justification. now wasn't that easy?! i keed, i keed! i would agree with poop if it sounded like you were trying to devalue your car to make it eligible. sounds like time and mileage have truly already devalued it for you. i think this scenario would be fair: 1. find three ads for same year / make / model, and average them. 2. get insurance estimate for repairs required to make yours "whole" again 3. add up all the aftermarket stuff and divide in half. 4. subtract estimate from average, add half of aftermarket parts value, and that's what yours is worth. 5. (option) If insurance co says yours is totalled, find out what it would cost you to buy it back. make sure the ins co knows about the aftermarket parts, because that could change the buyback. or: take a poll of all miatas to ever be in the challenge. average their initial purchase prices, and use that as your starting point.

Oops screwed that ^^^ post up.
I think you have to go with the 1 though 5 method, though I admit that I did not read it closely like a lawyer would.
The Challange sets off a lot of BS meters on other sites and everywhere. We have to be careful about being able to back up our numbers. The sucker vette had receipts for everything, and I saw BS meters going off all over the place.

I like the 1 though 5 method. I personally look at Sold Items on Ebay to get my FMV numbers. Sold Items, not current bids.

The Challange sets off a lot of BS meters on other sites and everywhere.

Fat Tony sez: Please list said "other sites" so that I may register and teach them a few things.

I've thought a lot about the BS meters, and have come to the conclusion that since MOST people aren't resourceful, talented, stubborn and drunk enough to take on a Challenge car, they assume nobody is.