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codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
6/4/20 9:33 p.m.

You're right to focus on the brakes.  Audis are heavy and the drivetrain layout isn't doing them any favors as far as weight distribution and handling go, so they are comparatively slow through the corners.  My experience is that running them at the track punishes the brakes, badly.  I took my B5 S4 to Laguna Seca when it was brand new (man that was 20 years ago), 4 sessions later the brakes were on fire and the tires were chunked.  Now, that track is particularly hard on brakes and the B5 had fairly lousy brakes from the factory, but it went to the dealer the following week for a complete set of front brakes at 8K miles. :)

One of the things I'd suggest is to turn all of the "nannies" off -- stability control, traction control, they work by using the ABS hardware to actuate the brakes on specific corners of the car to make it do things, and this dramatically increases the amount of heat that goes into the brakes.  I didn't do that.

I don't want to scare you off track days (they're a ton of fun, I was at Laguna again today!), and by all means go dip your toe in the pool with the S4.  Just keep in the back of your mind that if you get bitten by the bug and want to make it a regularl hobby, it's probably cheaper to buy an already-built mid-pack Spec Miata than it is to build an S4 into a car that can run hard at track days without destroying brakes and tires.

As for specific questions:

- I've never heard anyone care about tint at the track.  Passing signals are typically done with an arm out the window (windows must generally be down), so that's not really an issue.  Audi Club does point-bys using turn signals (ugh).

- As for helmet I agree with the people recommending closed-face helmets.  I like Bell, but there's no substitute for going to the store to try them on to see what fits your head.  And yes, most track day groups no longer accept Snell Motorcycle helmet certifications (IMHO this is dumb, but whatever).

- Most tracks have fuel available, albeit at a higher price than the typical street gas station.  For your first track day, though, I'd recommend just buying it there.  Toting fuel jugs around in the back of a pickup or in a trailer is one thing, but personally I wouldn't put them in the trunk of my Audi.  

As for what else to bring, one thing people haven't mentioned is a folding chair.  Generally you're hanging out in the paddock, which is basically a giant parking lot -- chair is very nice to have.  Bring it to the drivers' meeting too, they're usually really long. :)

 

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/4/20 11:24 p.m.

Umbrella and a pop up tent with the chairs noted above. 

Tyler H (Forum Supporter)
Tyler H (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
6/5/20 7:53 a.m.

All good advice above. A couple of other points--

If you're going to go off the track, drive straight off and don't reenter until you calm yourself and you're sure that traffic is clear.  Yanking the wheel over off-track can cause a rollover.

If someone else in your run group lacks situational awareness and isn't pointing by, then exit the track, drive though the hot pit (slowly,) and wait to be cleared to re-enter.  No reason to get flustered, and this happens frequently. Even in advanced run groups, I do this often if I'm in a low horsepower car and someone is holding me up.  I don't want to have to 'race' them  by passing under braking or spend 3 laps figuring out where I need to put the car to set up a pass.  Just drive through and reenter.  

 

Cactus
Cactus HalfDork
6/5/20 8:19 a.m.
GPz11 (Forum Supporter) said:

Another thing is to try different instructors, I had one who would not shut up and talked about the corner that already passed instead of talking about the one coming up.

As an instructor, that's a really easy trap to fall into. Call your instructor out on that behavior, they will be more proactive. Happened to me Monday, he called me on it, and them we made some real progress. Now my only post-turn comments are things like "see how much faster that line feels?"

MrLittle
MrLittle Reader
6/5/20 8:50 a.m.

You folks are the best. I've done a lot of coming and going from GRM depending on where I was in life and what hobby I was focusing on and this has always been the best place to ask these types of questions. 

 Thank you for all of the tips!

I honestly do have a goal of turning this S4 into a dedicated race car which I know won't be the cheapest option. I got a hell of deal on it from my mother in law who had it sitting in her pole-barn for 7 years and only driving it 7k miles. One of the stipulations was I drive the hell out of it because she never did. Drive the hell out of it I plan to do.  

drock25too
drock25too GRM+ Memberand New Reader
6/5/20 10:07 p.m.
MrLittle said:

You folks are the best. I've done a lot of coming and going from GRM depending on where I was in life and what hobby I was focusing on and this has always been the best place to ask these types of questions. 

 Thank you for all of the tips!

I honestly do have a goal of turning this S4 into a dedicated race car which I know won't be the cheapest option. I got a hell of deal on it from my mother in law who had it sitting in her pole-barn for 7 years and only driving it 7k miles. One of the stipulations was I drive the hell out of it because she never did. Drive the hell out of it I plan to do.  

Remember the first time out, be smooth and predictable. Your not trying to win LeMans,,, yet. If you point someone by, let them by. Don't "race" them into the corner. And have FUN ! 

GPz11 (Forum Supporter)
GPz11 (Forum Supporter) Reader
6/7/20 10:13 a.m.

Not sure if this has been mentioned but you can get track day insurance from Hagerty.

 

https://www.hagerty.com/insurance/track-day-insurance

hybridmomentspass
hybridmomentspass New Reader
6/7/20 12:40 p.m.

I just paid for my first track day!

SCCA Track Night in America at the Roval in Charlotte

drock25too
drock25too GRM+ Memberand New Reader
6/7/20 4:09 p.m.
hybridmomentspass said:

I just paid for my first track day!

SCCA Track Night in America at the Roval in Charlotte

The Roval is a bucket list track for me. Have fun.

MrLittle
MrLittle Reader
6/12/20 7:12 a.m.

Question about rotors. I did a forum search and it looks like the last time someone asked about this was like 8 years ago and naturally the internet as a whole has conflicting views. 
 
I bought some Hawk HPS 5.0 pads I'm going to put on when I do the fluid flush. The rotors on the car are still very good. No shakes and the surface is barely warn. I'm not looking at buying new rotors right now but I'm wondering if I should get them turned. Is this something that should be done every time you change pads if you're not putting on new rotors?

Error404
Error404 Reader
6/12/20 7:20 a.m.

Good luck getting rotors turned these days, they make them thinner dontcha know. 

I'm far from a brakeology scientist but I haven't worried about resurfacing on my cars pre-brake change, I just watch the condition of the rotors. It's worth mentioning that Hawks, and many other performance brakes, need to bed in and leave a layer of stuff on the rotors to be most effective. So if you were to get your rotors turned before a brake change you would need to rebed your brakes.

The HPS are a good beginner pad, they feel like better street pads. I like the HP+ better, they help me spend less time dragging the brakes which means better turns and less heat.

PMRacing
PMRacing GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
6/12/20 7:34 a.m.

In reply to MrLittle :

I don't think Hawks need clean rotors like some other pads do. But I would at least run some low grit sandpaper on them using an orbital sander if you have one.  But always follow pad manufacturer instructions. I know some ceramic pads need a proper bed in or they turn to dust very quickly. 

WonkoTheSane (Forum Supporter)
WonkoTheSane (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
6/12/20 7:49 a.m.

I've swapped HPS onto old rotors with no problems before.  Just follow normal bed-in procedure as Hawk outlines on their site and you'll be fine.  The biggest problem is changing non-like material.  It's most obvious when you swap different grades of race pads, you can tear things up pretty quick.  For most streetable pads, it shouldn't be a problem, but don't toss on race pads when you go to track, swap rotors and pads for that.

I ran quite a few track days on my Rx-8 on HPS before they faded, and when they faded it was quite gradual and understandable so you should be good on those for a while.  S4s are a bit heavier, so just pay attention.  If you had to press harder this time than you did last time, you may need to do a lap or three a bit slower to cool things down.  

My guess is your tires will limit you more than the brakes, though.

dps214
dps214 Reader
6/12/20 8:07 a.m.

I've never had an issue pad slapping performance street pads. I've also swapped between cheap street pads for autocross use and hp+ for track use with no issues.

WonkoTheSane (Forum Supporter)
WonkoTheSane (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
6/12/20 8:47 a.m.
dps214 said:

I've never had an issue pad slapping performance street pads. I've also swapped between cheap street pads for autocross use and hp+ for track use with no issues.

Agreed.  I don't think I'd go "higher" than HP+ without changing rotors, though. 

Error404
Error404 Reader
6/12/20 10:28 a.m.
WonkoTheSane (Forum Supporter) said:
dps214 said:

I've never had an issue pad slapping performance street pads. I've also swapped between cheap street pads for autocross use and hp+ for track use with no issues.

Agreed.  I don't think I'd go "higher" than HP+ without changing rotors, though. 

The jump from HP+ to DTC pads is very noticeable when you look at the graph showing operational temps, DTCs are a different beast in a few ways and rotor wear is just one of them. 

 

At OP:

Like others have mentioned, the S4 is a heavy car and your front brakes are going to be working hard. Don't ride the brakes, use them and get the heck off them or you're just adding heat to the system and they will fade quickly. Also, I think it's been said, your traction control uses your ABS which just adds more heat. HPSs are a good street pad and entry pad but they fade very quickly in heavy cars on track if your braking habits are geared for the street. Do your best to keep the traction control light off, if it comes on you're rolling throttle too soon or too hard. From my experience, I would recommend HP+ sooner rather than later if you intend to make this a track car. 

Tyler H (Forum Supporter)
Tyler H (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
6/12/20 10:43 a.m.
MrLittle said:

Question about rotors. I did a forum search and it looks like the last time someone asked about this was like 8 years ago and naturally the internet as a whole has conflicting views. 
 
I bought some Hawk HPS 5.0 pads I'm going to put on when I do the fluid flush. The rotors on the car are still very good. No shakes and the surface is barely warn. I'm not looking at buying new rotors right now but I'm wondering if I should get them turned. Is this something that should be done every time you change pads if you're not putting on new rotors?

Lots of other good suggestions above, but here's what I do:  get the rotors turned if they are >$50 ea. Under that and I would do new ones. I understand you have the HPS already and encourage you to use them.  (I burned through a set in one track day on my MR2 because I overheated them.  They're not ideal for a heavy/fast car like the S4, but they'll be fine for the first HPDE.)  My go-to recommendation for brake pads is to call Mike at Carbotech (ctbrakes.com) and buy whatever he recommends.  For track days, you'll probably get two seasons out of Carbotechs.  We usually get two 14 hour endurance races out of a set of XP10 front pads.

Probably the most important advice is to start the day with 2/3 front pad life or more, regardless of brand, and a full flush with new brake fluid.

drock25too
drock25too GRM+ Memberand New Reader
6/12/20 10:05 p.m.
MrLittle said:

Question about rotors. I did a forum search and it looks like the last time someone asked about this was like 8 years ago and naturally the internet as a whole has conflicting views. 
 
I bought some Hawk HPS 5.0 pads I'm going to put on when I do the fluid flush. The rotors on the car are still very good. No shakes and the surface is barely warn. I'm not looking at buying new rotors right now but I'm wondering if I should get them turned. Is this something that should be done every time you change pads if you're not putting on new rotors?

If they are not warped and shaking, I would just use a medium scotch brite disc on an angle die grinder and buff the glaze off them. don't get crazy just knock the "shiney" off. Machining them makes them thinner and more prone to warpage. 

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