Keep S2000 vs NC Miata? Beginner Looking for Track/Weekend Car

Hi Everyone!

I'm new to the forum as a member but have benefited from the knowledge and resources on here for a while :) Great community.

Here's my current situation: I used to have an s2000, which I drove as my daily for about 2.5 years. It was super clean and low mileage, so I never wanted to put a roll bar in or tear up the interior in order to track it. A baby came along and I sold the s2000 and purchased a mk6 Golf R. Last year, I finally was able to drive on track for my first two track events (VIR ) with the Golf R.

Suffice it to say, I had an absolute blast and want to do as much track driving as possible! I always dreamed of driving my s2k on the track, and I'm not comfortable continuing to track my daily, so I bought what I thought was a good deal AP2v2 s2000 (2006 with 109k miles). Turns out it needed more work than I thought, and now I have more money into the car than I planned (over $16k at this point, and still haven't put roll bar in or done any mods).

As a corollary to that, I keep reading how it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, etc, and how much better it will be as a beginner to learn how to drive with a more neutral handling, somewhat slower car compared to the s2000.

So I've been considering selling the s2000 and buying an NC miata. If it was purely budgetary, I would go NA miata and be done with it. However, a big part of it is also wanting a fun car for the weekend with some creature comforts, since I will only visit the track maybe 5-6 times a year. The NC is more comfortable than the NA, and has a nicer interior, so that's my preference. Basically it's either NC miata or S2000. Here are my two options, and I'd really appreciate your insight and advice:

1) Keep the s2000, put a roll bar in, and enjoy it for what it is. Pros:

• Already have the car! And spent good money fixing up many items.

• Great track car by all accounts, should be enjoyable and reliable.

• Should hold it's value relatively well, even with a roll bar.

• Faster; will be harder to outgrow as a track car and could keep me satisfied for a longer time

Cons:

• Not neutral at the limit and limits can be more difficult to find, leading to a steeper learning curve.

• I may not push it to 10/10ths all the time due to fear of overstepping the limits and fear of destroying a more valuable car.

• Cost of parts is getting higher

• More $$$, with 111k miles will need new suspension soon, might need new diff sooner than later due to poor maintenance of prior owner, might eventually need seats and harnesses which adds even more $$$.

• Will eventually cost me > $20k just to have the car set up in the long run if I am tracking it regularly. Tearing it up may reduce value substantially. With roll bar and suspension, I'd already be well over $20k. Add seats and harnesses to that.

• Staggered tires means more tires needed (going square would require wheels + suspension, so still $$$)

NC Miata: Pros:

• By all accounts, an easier car to drive at the limit and to learn on

• Cheaper; I'm looking at $11-12k for the car, Ohlins suspension, and roll bar all in. Even adding seats/harnesses I'm under what the s2000 cost me stock, and that would make me feel safer

• Balling it up would be far less stressful, allowing me to push it and have more fun

• More toy like, more fun to drive on the street. I was surprised at how much fun I had on a brief test drive. Won't be worried about maintaining the value of the car as much

• Easy and relatively cheap paths to upgrade power if I decide I need to (2.5 swap or supercharger)

• For thousands less, I will have a car with a properly set up suspension for track work vs stock 10 year old suspension on s2000

Cons:

• I have to sell the s2000, and would likely lose some money there

• Power is down compared to s2k, so I might get bored with the car sooner

• I may end up preferring the s2k and end up buying a third one, and they're becoming fewer and further between!

I know that cost is a factor here, but it's not the main factor. I am a beginner driver looking to learn how to drive better and want to optimize my time on the track as well as optimizing the fun factor. The s2000 is a sunk cost at this point, but if I am going to sell it and go miata I'd rather do it now than later.

Am I making too big of an issue out of the learning curve issue?

Anyone have experience driving both cars on track, especially as a beginner? I feel like finding the limits is a huge part of learning to drive early on.

Any input or advice is greatly appreciated! And I'd be lying if I didn't admit that having a different car is part of the desire. Also, after having to fix so many things in the s2000 I am also worried about what's next? I feel like more repairs might pop up (although compression test was very good and all the little things that should have been done are fixed now). Biggest one is diff, which is another $1000+ if it goes.

Right now I'm probably 70% leaning towards selling the s2k and getting a miata. Thanks everyone!

You'll be doing rollbar/seats/harness/suspension either way, so just buy a backmarker spec miata and get on track tomorrow. Spend the rest of your money on track days and instruction. When you "outgrow" the car, it'll be worth what you paid for it, provided you don't huck it at the scenery.

In reply to calteg:

I agree with you if this was just (or mainly) a track car. However I do want something I can drive to the track and back comfortable, for at least the next two years (If I track the car enough I will buy a car that can tow and get a trailer). I'd much rather spend 4+ hours to VIR in an s2000 or NC miata vs an NA.

Also a big part of my purchase is to have a convertible. Having a NA miata fully track prepped means no more soft top, and bolted hard top. Not convenient if I want to commute in the car sometimes and enjoy the weather, etc.

Those are the reasons I'm moving away from NA miata and prefer the NC/s2k. If I wasn't set on a convertible then a whole host of options are opened up, but having a convertible is a main factor in my fun car.

Thanks!

So you have never tracked a S2000 right? The later S2000's are just as neutral as a miata and I know some folks that track theirs on a square tire setup with stock suspension.

While it is wise to start tracking with a slow car, an NC wil be as fast as a S2000 on a tight track. You really need a long stright for the extra power of the S2000 to make a difference.

I would just stick with your S2000

Just leaving this here.

You're already sunk financially on the S2K and it's a nice car. Keep it for commuting/weekend drives/nice summer car duties.

Find a street legal NA with track mods (not necessarily a spec Miata level prep) and track that. The risk of balling up a 20K car isn't something I'm willing to take but a beater $2,500 NA with $3K worth of bolt ons (that can be salvaged from the car if the worst happens) is much more liberating on track.

***A friend of mine stuffed his S2K at mid Ohio two years ago, it cost many many thousands to put it back together.

I like the idea of keeping the S2000 as a fun street car and getting a cheap NA for track stuff. Yeah you don't want to be miserable driving to the track but if you're talking about suspension mods, roll bars and seats how much more comfortable will a track prepped NC or S2000 really be anyway?

In reply to KyAllroad:

I agree, it's a balance. If I end up going NA my mechanic is likely selling his track ready 91 which is just about prepared for spec. Again, loses the convertible aspect of it. But it would likely cost $7k+, because the car has <70k miles on it and is ready to go and well maintained - but it has seen a fair amount of track time. If I didn't want a convenient convertible, that option makes the most sense and I would likely be able to sell the car for around $6k in a couple years, provided I didn't wreck it.

I'm not really willing to have 3 cars at once. In the long run I would plan on getting a trailer and making my car more of a dedicated track car and getting something for weekends/fun, but that's several years off. For now having two cars is plenty! That's why I feel the NC miata is a good compromise. About $5k-7k cheaper than the s2000, and parts are a bit cheaper as well if something goes wrong/accident.

But again maybe just better to drive the s2000 for a year or two and see where I want to go from there.

Another concern I didn't mention is that I may not pass a broomstick test in the s2000 because of a long torso. No real easy way to lower the seats either. I'd be safer and more comfortable with racing seats and harnesses, but that adds another significant expense to a car which will only see the track a few times a year.

I'm more willing to do that with a miata than with the s2000.

As the weather warms up I'll probably just put the s2000 up for sale. If I can get a good price for it, I'll sell it and go for a miata. If not, I'll drop a roll bar in and go from there. For what I think I can get for the s2000, I can get an NC1 with full aftermarket suspension installed, roll bar, seats, harnesses, and new tires and brakes.

In reply to BlueInGreen44:

A fair point! But see above - I definitely don't want to have 3 cars. If I go NA or NC, I will be selling the s2000. I'm totally ok with that.

I suppose I need to find an NA to test drive, which can be a bit of a challenge.

If you aren't competing, most sanctioning bodies grant a pass of the broomstick test to the S2000. I've had mine out on track dozens of times without an aftermarket roll bar. SOLO rules allow it as well.

"I don't want three cars."

Dude, have you looked around this place? I have FIVE and I'm seriously amateur hour compared with some of these nut jobs. (Looking at you Cotton )

One thing that sucks about the S2000 is that you need to cut up the unibody to fit a track-legal roll bar and it is easy to mess up. Once you go down that path its value is forever compromised and you will probably only be able to sell it to someone else who will track it. Not a big deal if you plan to keep it forever, but worth considering.

pointofdeparture wrote: One thing that sucks about the S2000 is that you need to cut up the unibody to fit a track-legal roll bar and it is easy to mess up. Once you go down that path its value is forever compromised and you will probably only be able to sell it to someone else who will track it. Not a big deal if you plan to keep it forever, but worth considering.

Fitting a decent roll bar under the factory soft top on an NC is also a challenge. There are a few on the market, but they don't offer the protection that the NA/NB bars do, or they require the temporary addition of parts that block the passenger seat or the use of the soft top while they're attached.

Which one can you afford to wad up into a ball? The one you can walk away from is the answer.

You and I are in the same boat brother. But unfortunately I found out my S2000 was in a wreck the same day it was purchased in 2005 running into a stationary object coming out of the dealer lot. Car runs and drives fine and you'd never be able to tell but at the same time I lost my hard on for how clean this example is and wanting to keep it pristine.

So do I keep it and turn it into a track car? At first I was thinking an SCCA class; but, that might be more money than I want to spend at the moment. So I was prying around on some forums and realized I could sell the stock power plant for close to $3000 and swap a K-series in there while breaking even on the swap. Of course I'll be down on power; but, K motors are more plentiful, parts are cheaper, and the lower revving K24 is probably going to last a bit longer than the F20C. Perfect for chump car.

That's just a random f'ing crazy idea for you but it's likely the direction I'm heading in. Otherwise I'm going to sell the S2000 to a co-worker, buy a miata, K swap that thing and run EC in chump and have a neat track day car. Plus the K-Series is much more responsive to modifications on the N/A side. We all know the F20C can take a good amount of boost with that bottom end.

Why does a track prepped na require a hardtop, but an nc doesn't?

In reply to Nathan JansenvanDoorn:

Neither of them requires it. But the track prepped NA miatas typically get rid of the soft top and have a bolted in hard top. I suppose if I found an NA with a roll bar and soft top I would consider it, but I'm not sure how the soft top works/sits in the car. I haven't seen any NA miatas with racing seats/harnesses and a soft top but I'm sure they're out there.

To answer the question re: what I'm comfortable "balling up," obviously the less money lost the better. I wouldn't risk putting anything on track I couldn't afford to lose. NC miata would be $5k+ cheaper than s2k, and NA would be even cheaper. NC finds a sweet spot I think - more of them produced than the s2k, so cheaper and more prevalent junkyard parts. Engine and parts are everywhere as well (and 2.5 swap easy if motor goes). Hopefully if an accident happened, it would be way cheaper to repair the NC than the s2k, which is part of the consideration as well.

In reply to codrus:

Yeah I'd go with the blackbird bar, which is the only relatively proper 4 point bar that retains the soft top. If I ever ended up making the car a dedicated (or more dedicated) track car, I'd remove the soft top and have a real half cage welded in and go hard top.

In reply to DirtyBird222:

You know I've been thinking a lot about why this s2000 isn't giving me the same "fizz" as my last one did. I think it's due to all the surprises I found when I got my car properly looked at. I also found out it had been in an accident (although like yours, it is straight thankfully). The problem might not be "s2000" but "this particular s2000." I guess after all the money I've put into it in fixing it and getting it up to speed, the car has lost it's luster. I planned on spending $2-3k fixing it up, including tires and brakes, and it's closer to $6k now. Not a huge difference, just makes me constantly anxious "What else might go wrong?"

If I wasn't planning on tracking it, I'd be very happy with it and drive it's wheels off. But I don't want to constantly be worrying about the car and potentially more expensive repairs, especially after tearing up the inside to put a roll bar in and losing any value the car still had.

Initially I was set on the NC, and found a really great one locally for a fantastic price, full service records, etc. I actually had cash in hand and was going to buy it but then the guy selling this s2k dropped his price even more for me and it swayed me. Ah well.

I wouldn't let the hard top on the spec Miata deter you. Just take it off and run it with no top at all. You've got another car to drive when it's going to rain and on the rare occasion that you get caught out you'll just get wet.

Just buy an NA and only go to the track when it's raining. You'll never get bored or wish the car was faster.

Good taste in cars; my daily is an MK7 Golf R and my weekend/fun car is a low mileage 2007 S2000.

I've previously owned a 1990 NA Miata and a 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata. Both of which were a hoot to drive. In some ways, the MSM especially, was just as fun as my S2000 on the street, even if the S2K is a faster/more competent car. I found both to be more fun than the NC's I've driven.

I've driven the NC1 and NC2 on multiple occasions and was never very impressed. Lots of body roll (especially the NC1), an uninspiring engine and rubbish OEM seats. I get it, you would be addressing those problems with aftermarket parts, but out of the box, I always thought the S2000 was a much more fun car to drive.

Despite being a heavier car built on the same chassis, I actually preferred driving the RX-8 over the NC. But, I get it, no drop top= no go.

Before I bought my AP2 S2000, I came close to buying an ND Miata, which I thought was better than the NC, both as a sports car and as a Miata. But I digress.

A few notes about tracking the S2000:

-My local track (High Plains Raceway) doesn't require an aftermarket roll bar for the S2000, or other convertibles with acceptable OEM roll protection (Boxster, Z4, etc). They do however require an aftermarket roll bar for the NC, as they refer to the OEM roll protection as more of a "style bar". Check with your local track for guidance.

-As mentioned above, many tracks don't perform a broom stick test for non-competitive HPDE-style open lapping days. Check with your local track.

-My AP2 isn't the scary, oversteering monster people make them out to be. The addition of a bigger front sway bar, keeping the staggered 215/245 tire setup and dialing in a bit of extra rear negative camber and rear toe-in certainly helps. People also swear by running a large APR-style rear wing on them. You hear people frequently saying they can't hardly get the CR version to oversteer, even when they're trying.

I liked the idea of running a dirt cheap NA Miata that's disposable for track work... but I understand not wanting to run 3 cars.

Ever considered running autoX events as opposed to track days? It would relieve some of your worries about putting your S2000 into a wall.

My problem with the idea of owning the NC is that the S2000 is a more fun/interesting car to drive IMO, and I'm assuming you would be doing much more street driving vs track driving. For me, I live just a few minutes away from some of the best mountain/canyon roads in the country, and for fun mountain drives, S2000 > NC.

My advice is to go with your heart. If you love the S2000, then that's what you should run.

You only live once and this amateur motorsports stuff is all about pursuing your passion...not logic.

My racecar is a Mercedes 190E 2.3-16 Cosworth, which makes no sense. Obviously, an M3 would have been a more rational choice. But I love the stupid Cossie and I'm sticking with it.

If your goal is to win an SCCA championship, that's a different story. In that case, you buy the right car for the job. But when the goal is to have fun on the track, start with a car you love driving. And don't look back!

KyAllroad wrote: "I don't want three cars." Dude, have you looked around this place? I have FIVE and I'm seriously amateur hour compared with some of these nut jobs. (Looking at you Cotton )

There are days when I question my sanity. Then I look at this place and look back at my 2 cars/no kids/no SWMBO situation and feel better about myself.

As a data point, we have 6 cars across 3 drivers.

On topic, would you consider an NB Miata? Cheaper buy in, incredibly fun to drive and cheap to upgrade. My daughter and I have building ours up and I'm registered for my first auto-x (in a very long time) a week from today!

I went with a Blackbird Fabworx single diagonal bar. Works perfectly with a soft top, even a glass window version.

My daughter in for a test fit: