Kids karting, give me an idea of a realistic budget

rob_lewis wrote:

JohnRW1621 wrote: In reply to 84FSP: I don't know anything about carts but if coming out of Cincinnati, there is a huge cart track in New Castle, IN that I see right off the I-70. That should be within 1.5 hours of Cincinnati. Looks like an impressive facility. http://www.newcastleraceway.com.

New Castle is an awesome track. There have been several national races there. My son and I have been there a couple of times. They host a enduro every year called Robopong that usually has pro NASCAR and Indy guys competing in it with a Dan Wheldon charity going on at the same time. I think they also offer rental race karts (vs the rental concession karts) to get anyone a chance to drive a real race kart and see if they like it. -Rob

Thanks guys - I'll check out the Newcastle location as well. The Camden course I've been hearing about is below in case people know about it. West of Dayton from the look of it. G&J Kart Way

Autocross is fun in a kart, but beware; it is often extremely difficult to see cones in a kart due to low seating position. what is a cone maze in a car becomes a cone wall in a kart. It teaches a skill that regular kart racing wont, which is adapting to a new course every event.

There was a reality show about kids karting. Almost made me NOT want to get into it. Every bad stereotype you could imagine. My son is 5 and I totally plan to get him into a kart someday. My wife and I road raced motorcycles and I can see us all racing karts together.

So we had the initial informational meeting. I like the concept. It's for fun, and hoping to avoid the hyper competitive BS. It'll more or less be oval racing(meh). They'll be using "JR Champ" style karts. . It's being done by the race track to "give back". At the same time its sort of extending the crack pipe a little.....as when you are too old to run the karts you are eligible to run the lowest level car class at the track. Entry fee is basically enough to cover insurance, so $20 an event. No point series. Rules to line up with other tracks in the greater area, so as to make more karts eligible to run, however the goal of this series is more introduction to the sport. If you want to get real competitive, you move on to a couple of the other area series. So it's almost a test and tune series. Now find me a jr champ kart on the cheap.

Where do you even look to find those types of karts, besides the black hole of CL?

Klayfish wrote: Where do you even look to find those types of karts, besides the black hole of CL?

You ask the brilliant people of this forum, and hope to hell they find something cheap, so the wife doesn't kill me.

I can't tell from the picture. Quarter midgets? My son's coach grew up racing those down here in Austin. I didn't even know there was a track, but went and watched a couple of races.

They'll learn good car control, how to setup a line for passing, etc. Just make sure that you have good safety equipment and that momma doesn't go the first few races. They're fine because it's a full cage, but I was amazed at how often they were flipped over.

The BEST thing about it and worth whatever money you put into it is the time you'll spend with your kids.

-Rob

Not quarter midgets. Similar, but these have no suspension where quarter midgets do. Wife is pretty good about that stuff, not worried about her reaction. Safety gear will not be skimped on.

Around me microds is big. Typically baby nascar oval carts. I worked EMS at a race once. Sister inlaw lives a few houses down from the local track. No idea what value this adds to the conversation.

Dragging this one up from the depths.

So, our Grandson is five, turning six in December.  Along with one of his other granddads we're looking at going Karting with him next year.  His big uncle is 13 and has been Karting for two years, after a year in quarter midgets, and loves it, our Grandson has gone out to watch his big uncle race a few times and is enthusiastic.  We think he'll be pretty good as he has excellent balance and coordination.  Last Christmas I got him one of those little RAZOR electric motorbikes.  Having never been on two wheels before he went from wobbling as I held his back, to zooming circles around our yard in less than 30 mins.

Our local track is East Lancing in Michigan, only 80 miles / 1hr 20min from home so convenient.  Beyond joking about the next Hamilton or Newgarden we specifically want this to be low pressure, low stress, (relatively) low cost and most of all FUN.  The reason his uncle only did one season of quarter midgets was apparently every kid and dad there thought they were headed for a NASCAR factory contract.  Way too pushy, brash, high spend, high stress, have to be there before 8:00am and don't think of leaving before 7:00pm.  It sucked all the fun out of it.  The whole point is to have fun and learn skills, being an A hole isn't one of them.

I see back on page one of this thread people were saying don't spend more than $1000 on a kid kart set up.  I went to the track this weekend on a test day and saw a few Kid Karts out there.  The ones people said they had picked up for less than $1,000 (I think they said $600 and $800) honestly appeared ragged out and never seemed to run that well.  I'm wondering if $1,000 is a real number?  The other grandad called me on his way home last night from the awards banquet (racing is Sunday) and said he'd talked to a guy who's youngest was aging out of KidKArt and was heading for a larger kart/class so the full set up is for sale.  Once chassis, two engines, lot's of spares, stand etc.  Apparently he's asking $2,200 for the lot.  Having been car racing for one season long ago, and suffered trying to do it for too cheap, I made myself a promise.  If I ever go racing again (and by extension If we take our Grandson) I will only do it properly.  No, not brand new top $$ everything, but I wont go unless I can afford to do it right and not constantly be fighting E36 M3ty equipment.  So my Q is, what is a realistic cost for decent set up that isn't completely ragged out and really needs every fastener replacing, the engine re-building, doesn't have an old worn out chassis etc. etc.?

Very curious to see where you land with this. I have four kids that I'd like to introduce to the sport, but so far it's just been Power Wheels for the little ones and concession karting for the oldest.

Tim Suddard said:

We were into this when Tom was young. We wrote two or three good articles on the scene and covered budget pretty well. Email or call Gary at our office, and he can dig up the back issues. Gary@GrassrootsMotorsports.com (386) 239-0523.

It would be cool if you had an intern scan all your old issues in searchable format pdf's and made them available on line.  You could put them behind a paywall and I suspect a lot of people would pay for the access.

I don't kart. But I do hang out with karters a LOT because I'm at the track a lot riding bikes. The kart is a fairly small part of the cost of racing. What I see people spending a lot of money on is tires and fuel and track time and travel and entry fees. Some of this can be specific to certain tracks/series as they use tires that last more or less and new tires for race day are more or less important. 

Helmet and suit and rib protector and all of the series around me require the neck restraint things and gloves and the cart for the kart to roll around on. And the fast kids I know are practicing at least once a week and they love it and would drive 2-4 days a week if you'd let them. 

Weirdly, karts seem to require constant maintenance. I see plenty of people show up to the track and spend an hour with tools before they go out. 

If they get good, and fast and bigger, it gets even more fun. In the Briggs206 kart that I've been bumming time on, O can kill a set of tires in less than 100 laps. They're about $200 a set, so $2 a lap in tires of we had to buy them new. Luckily the fast guys do 20-40 laps on them on a race weekend and then throw them away so we pick them up and run them until they die. 

I don't kart. Yet. But I do have a lot to say about it. 

Looking through this thread I found my response from January of 2016, so an update might help.

This has been a very good experience, for both father/crew chief and son/driver.  As a review, my son is having fun and learning to drive.  He has had flashes of outstanding speed and great car control.  He does not have that one trait that you have to have,  that is to crush the completion. He likes to win, when he does, but likes to hang out with his friends at the end of an event.

I am good with this.  He is driving a 2014 kart that is a much better combination for him.  I found the kart when a family with twins were aging out.  Both of the kids are tall, the young lady out drove her sibling on a regular basis.  She liked to crush everyone who raced against her.

I did have the motor rebuilt after out first year of events.  Terry Nash was great to deal with and he treated my son to a complete tutorial on what was going to happen with his motor.  Buy the newest kart you can and be prepared for " little race car" costs.

The spec tires for our series are just north of $220 a set, they last until they go off.  We live with one set and they will work for at least half the season.  I will never run pump gas in the kart again, I run VP.  I change the engine oil after every other weekend.  I have spent more money on chain cleaner and chain lube than anything else.  

My son is now just past 15 and 6'3".  He has out grown all of his safety equipment, for the second time.  Now we are moving to an older car with a stick.  That the crew chief can drive!

jr02518 said:

 

The spec tires for our series are just north of $220 a set, they last until they go off.  We live with one set and they will work for at least half the season.  I will never run pump gas in the kart again, I run VP.  

 

From listening to friends, I think these two things are important.  The club around here specs a poor quality pump gas, and it eats carburetors and gums them up mucho el pronto.  Also, the spec tires are gumballs, ...so everyone has to buy way too many tires, but everyone would do the same thing slightly slower on hard tires, but...

Untalented guys always want stickier tires so they can catch the fast guys, but don't seem to realize that the fast guys will also be faster on the stickier tires...

The $2200 deal seems like an awfully good idea, especially if there is a sack of spares and setup notes and odds and ends and stuff.

Wow, 4 years ago.  How time flies...

Adrian,

That sounds like a decent price with the spares and two motors.  If the funds allow, grab it. 

Glad to hear you're going low pressure.  I'm honestly surprised that moving from 1/4 midget to karts, they didn't see a similar attitude in the karting paddock.  At this age, it's about driving and having fun.  If your grandson wants to go to the track, take him.  If not, let him not go.  I think that's the biggest issue with karting at that age.  Daddy spends a ton of money to get jr. into the sport and gets frustrated when jr. doesn't want to practice and be at the track.  Or, gets upset when jr. isn't winning from day one.  Fortunately (or not if you look at my finances), my son was waking me up every weekend morning to go drive and would gladly spend the entire day at the track taking a full session every time he could. 

I would recommend figuring out who, locally, sells that chassis so you know who to talk to about parts.  KidKart dads are usually very helpful to new folks, until your kid starts winning and then they have a tendency to clam up!  :D

We were VERY lucky because we had a shop that went to all of the races and would usually pit with them.  It was INVALUABLE for the amount of help/advice/coaching/etc for me as we were starting out.  Ended up staying with them the entire time my son karted.  If your grandson really gets interested in it, a coaching session day and a tuner session day would be worth the money.  Kart setup is quite different from car setup. 

Keep the fun attitude in mind as long as you can. KidKarts are really just to get the kid learning how to drive and see if they like it.  Most of the time, kidkarts are looked down upon at the track because of the dads attitudes and I'd guess less than half the kids who start in a kidkart end up racing in the junior classes. 

And I'll still say the same thing now that I said then.  Pray they're not any good, because it can get expensive very, very, very quickly.....

Edit: kid kart chassis's don't really wear out.  The low speeds and low grip just don't work the chassis nearly as hard as the faster classes.  I would guess (from someone buying the cheapest I could) that the ragged out karts that didn't run well were people that weren't investing in knowledge and probably just letting the kid burn some gas.  I can unequivocally state that you can take a chassis that's been practically bent in half, get it bent back by in shape by a guy who does chassis straightening at the big races ($200) and still win races for 6 more months against kids getting a new chassis every weekend. 

-Rob

Wow, great feedback guys.  We will try and view the kart sometime this week or weekend.  I'll keep you all updated.

Someone mentioned tires.  The spec tire for this track in Kids Kart seems to be MG Red's which cost around $200 a set and will apparently last a kid kart two seasons.  

Adrian,

I also race at East Lansing. The MG Reds will last a while if you keep them indoors between races. ELKT is a great track, and Kevin and Sandy put on a good show. 

Not sure about the deal. Most karts run at East Lansing - especially mine - would be rejected in tech at most tracks for being "generally old worn out junk" - Michiganders keep karts going for longer than anyone else. Kid Karts may not obey the general rule that a chassis is good for 2-3 seasons at most.

A Kid Kart engine that runs well is better than a super-monster-cheater that takes fifteen minutes to start half the time and doesn't the rest.

In reply to chaparral :

Excellent. I hope to see you next year.  What do class do you run, or is it your kid(s)?  When we gat a Kart I'll post in a new stand alone thread.  I got to have a go in a the Kart the other grandad just bought for his son to move up a class next year.  Only one short session on Saturday, but it was a blast.  first time I've ever driven a 'real' kart as opposed to somewhere like Kart2Kart with older, rock hard tired, heavy chassis.  It was a blast.Braking when the back wants to swap ends is a learning experience!

jharry3 said:

It would be cool if you had an intern scan all your old issues in searchable format pdf's and made them available on line.  You could put them behind a paywall and I suspect a lot of people would pay for the access.

Hit the Digital Edition link at the top of the page, next to the Buy a Subscription button. They've gotten as far back as April 2012 so far.

bandolero and  mini cup cars could be another option of there is any of that racing around.

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

For a six year old?  Wow.  But no thanks, his uncle is already kart racing so this would be an expansion.  Plus both myself and the other gradad come from a left turn right turn background.

My kids have also been running some at ELKT this year.  They are 14 and 16.  The older one has just practiced a couple times.  The younger one has practiced some and raced 4 times in Yamaha Jr. Supercan.  We're not taking it too seriously, just having fun.

Last Fall we bought a 2014 OTK kart with the Yamaha KT100 engine, ready to run with a few small spares and two sets of used MG red tires for $2900.  This Spring, we did the 4 hour trek to Comet Kart just east of Indy as they seem to be the closest place that has everything.  I think we spent another $1200 there for suit/helmet/gloves/rib protector (one set to be shared by both kids to start with), two seats, a set of cheap spare wheels, weights, starter, stand, a few sprockets, a spare chain, and a tire bead breaker.  

In the 4 race days and probably about 5 or 6 practice days, we've gone through two sets of tires, ~10 gallons of gas, and replaced some clutch parts, a TCI (ignition module), spark plug,  and a few fasteners and safety clips.  Now we need to replace the steering shaft and a tie rod after a trip to the tire wall at the last race.  This stuff probably adds up to another $500 in operating costs, not including the cost of track time.

This is a full sized kart, not a kid kart, so I'm not sure how all this would translate.  That $2200 option sounds like a pretty good deal, though.

Comet Kart is a great resource.  They have good drawings and pictures to help identify most parts, and they have been prompt to call if they had questions about an online order.  They also have used karts for sale.  I usually get parts from them in one day (Ann Arbor) with standard shipping.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

Adrian,

I run TaG Light and 4-cycle Senior. If you'd like to drive a TaG Kart, I could go on Sunday with the Rotax.

In reply to chaparral :

Outstanding.  I'd love to try that early next season when were out there! thx