(lack of) warranty from TireRack

I know that TireRack is a sponsor for Grassroots, so maybe I get a bit more attention this way...

I just got a new set of Dunlop Direzza Star Spec Z1 from TireRack and took them to Thunderhill After two days of fun my front right had developed serious chunking. Just ONE tire not all four, which lead me to believe that there must be a defect with this tire. So I called TireRack, they requested photos and long story short: TireRack rejects any warranty claims as - as they state it - "Racing" voids the warranty. My argument was that I was not racing, I was at a "Driver Education" event, where the organizer is very adamant that it was not Racing The definition of "Racing" is "a competition of speed", which IMHO does not apply for a DE event.

Well again, they rejected the warranty. So I asked the bonus question if this would mean that track tires would also not be covered when they are being "raced". The answer was "yes", meaning if you use track tires from TireRack in the way they are meant to be used and they chunk, you are s*** out of luck.

In all fairness: they offered me a replacement tire for 50% off plus shipping, but as I see it that's just as "generous" as if you buy a new car which fails after a few miles and the manufacturer offers you a replacement for 50% off...

Will I take further action over $200 worth of tire? - waste of time, and I guess that's what TireRack counts on. But needless to say: My "love affair" with TireRack is over and I just wanted to let you know.

Front or rear drive car? Im not familiar with thunderhill are any of the corners particularly abusive on tires? Anything odd during the day? Not saying that you were at fault but it would be best to check all your bases before spending any more money replacing a faulty tire. You might want to contact Dunlop/Goodyear directly

In reply to BoneYard_Racing:

Hi Bone Yard,

Porsche Boxster S (mid-engine, rear-drive) The tire which gets the most pounding (at least with my driving style) is probably the rear right (when I throttle steer through turn 3)

Actually I am not so worried about the one tire, but I am quite upset that TireRack refuses warranty for RACE tires if they are being RACED... (Yes I know the Dunlops are not race tires), but they specifically excluded warranty for all kind of tires if they're being raced.

Just to confirm, you did two track days here on a street tire and chunked out your outside front. And not only are you surprised by this, you conclude this constitutes a defect? See all those hard left hand turns on that map? That's what chunked your tire, not anything Dunlop or Tire Rack did. In fact, I am pretty impressed that they were willing to give you a partial credit for a new tire against their own policies. If anything, your story confirms that the Tire Rack is intent on keeping customers happy. But if they went around replacing street tires every time they chunked on a track, they'd either go out of business or have to raise their prices, and I dont think I want either of those to happen!

It sucks that your tire wore out, but I don't know of any tire retailer that would cover it under warranty. The tire doesn't know if you are racing or doing a DE event. Race tires in general carry no warranty.

Ummmm, yeah. You should be grateful they're willing to give you 50% off.

You took a tire to the track and it wore quickly. No surprise there. Same thing with race tires.

If you'd blown out a side wall or the tire had de-laminated, that would've been a defect.

You have nothing to complain about.

Tire Rack never impressed me. Discount Tire Direct FTW.

This also fits my experiences with Tire Rack. One time my car was sitting on the ground as someone had stolen all my rims and tires and it took Tire Rack 3 tries to get me the wheel and tire combo I ordered. Plus the sales reps description of the rims was, shall we say over generous.

Haven't been back and never will. Don't trust them. Trust is like a soap bubble, once it's popped you can't put it back together.

As soon as you said it was Thunderhill, all I could think about was the the fast turn 1 followed by the long turn 2 - both of which are going to put some serious abuse on the right front tire. Especially a brand new full tread street tire, which is going to have some real heat management issues. An older set would have probably fared better than a new one.

Using tires "as they were meant to be used" means managing them properly. If you're planning on running them at the track right out of the box, they should be shaved to avoid chunking. I've seen a brand new Goodyear race slick get destroyed after a single 20-minute session, and nobody in attendance felt there should have been a warranty claim. It was our mistake for how the car was using the tire.

Sorry, but I don't think you can blame Tire Rack for this. And as for a warranty on track tires, well, they're racing parts. Not a lot of warranty there. It doesn't matter if there's timing gear in operation, an event at a race track should be considered a race event. I think Tire Rack is doing you a big favor by offering 50% off a replacement.

I've always had excellent service from Tire Rack. It may help that I get in the "back door" to the wholesale sales reps, who are completely used to me ordering things like 255/40-17 tires on a 2002 Miata. I've had them catch mistakes of mine as well. The only time we've had a problem with product was with some Hankook R-S2s that weren't round, and those were replaced without question.

Aren't tire warranties offered by the manufacturer and not the reseller anyhow?

So you took your car to a track event, pounded on it for two days, and are mad that you wore out a tire? Hope you looked at the brakes too, I bet those are defective as well. Then you came here to post about how terrible TireRack has been to you. This isn't Consumerist. In fact I'm thinking it's borderline canoe territory.

Take the 50% discount and be happy. TireRack is being overly nice.

Did you consider rotating the tires during the weekend?

You weren't using a street tire "in the way they were meant to be used". If so, you'd have been on the street, at lower speeds, not hammering new, full-tread tires in turns that were designed to be difficult at high speeds.

Tire Rack is still being nice enough to offer to replace the "defective" tire at what I imagine is pretty much their cost, and you're bellyaching about it?

What were your starting and hot pressures?

Suck it up Nancy. You are, 100%, wrong.

Shave new tires if you are going to abuse them. They will last longer when put on track day duty than full-depth tires will. They run cooler, maintain more consistent pressure before and after runs, and they provide more grip.

Take a rubber band and stretch it out real fast a bunch of times. It gets hot, right? A lot of the heat that a tire generates isn't through skidding across pavement, but instead in the flexing that the tread blocks do when the car turns. Heat kills things. Like your new tires, for example. Real big tread blocks flex a lot and generate a lot of heat. Then, they chunk apart. Fact of life.

And to a tire vendor, there is no difference between racing and a DE. The tire sees the same kind of punishment regardless of whether the cars are competing or not. They are being generous in offering you a discount on a new tire.

I don't shave my tires because they also see regular driving duty, but I do try to time my new tire purchases in a way that allows them to break in a bit before I abuse them. 500 miles was enough to protect the Azenis RT-615s on my Miata. They saw over a year of track duty and tons of road miles.

These things happen. Instead of worrying about it, go buy yourself a new tire and a coolio new upgrade for your car (may I suggest a more aggressive alignment?). Then do as I do. Find a way to turn it into a cool story.

Welcome to the board!

ok, ok, got it I am the bad guy here ;-)

Guys, I am at Thunderhill quite often, with street tires (new and worn), with race tires and this is the FIRST time that anything like this happened to me. Example: I went there with brand new Nitto NT-05 and they held just fine in similar conditions (unshaved and same track/outside temperature) And no I didn't chunk the outside of the tire, I chunked the middle of the tire Pressures were cold 32 and hot 45ish

OK I guess I still have to get accustomed to the idea that as soon as you drive your car faster than "safe highway speeds" (65 mph) all warranties are void; as a side note I come from Germany where highway speeds of 130+ are the norm ;-)

And one corection: When I wrote that I pound the rear tire the most in turn 3 I meant turn 2 - sorry.

Anyways, I appreciate everyone's input and opinions

Chris

The whole thing of being adamant about it being a DE and not a race is primarily for insurance purposes. Frankly, your tires don't give a damn if you're cornering at 70mph to pass someone, or if you're cornering at 70mph just for fun. It's all the same to them. TireRack is giving you a deal.

130+ mph hour on a highway is not nearly as hard on tires as 70mph through turn 2.

And I'd look at how you're treating your tires. 12psi gain seems awfully high to me (granted, I'm running smaller tires on a lighter car). And you chunked the center earlier because your tires were overinflated.

And you already went through a set of NT-05s? Didn't those just come out this year? Which would mean you'd have to have run them this summer to get the same kind of temps you'd be seeing this past weekend.

If the NT05 stood up to that beating why are you changing

On another note... so what is the verdict about shaving vs. full tread? It seems like full tread tires should have longer life purely by virtue of rubber depth. Or do you only shave them, like 1/32 off full depth?

I didn't shave my NT-01s when I got them, and didn't street drive them too much before hitting the track with them. However, the NT-01 doesn't have a whole lot of tread pattern. And it was fairly cool when I first tracked them (actually, I think it rained at one point).

They do seem to be suffering heat wear on the shoulders now. But I can't dial in sufficient camber on this car, and it's getting freaking hot out.

Edit: and where do people usually get tires shaved? I doubt America's Tire has the equipment for shaving tires.

To quickly answer the questions about why I changed back from the NT-05. Correct I bought them this year and - well - they only lasted a total of 5k miles (street + track + AX). As much as I like their stickiness and how they did NOT chunk they wore a tad too fast in my opinion, so I wanted to see if the Dunlops would be a better compromise between stickiness and treadwear. But yes, I give you that: they had a few AX "under their belt" before I took them to the track where they then left most of their rubber. Ok, lesson learned: Don;t go to the track with new/unshaved tires. Anything else?

Hatzenbach wrote: Anything else?

Get a more aggressive alignment dialed in that is better suited to how you are using the car. Or, better yet:

Buy a Miata.

Seriously. You wouldn't be having these problems in a car that weighs 1000# less. You'd also be able to drive DOT-R tires everywhere and still spend half of what you are just trying to keep your Porsche in street rubber. Not to mention all of the tires and gas you won't be buying. Yeah, your Porsche is faster (although Spec Boxsters are only barely faster than Spec Miatas); that just means you'll have to work hard to make the Miata move.

Or if you really crave that speed, buy a turbo kit from Bell Experimental Group (if you didn't live in Cali, I'd say Flyin' Miata). Then you'll put the Porsche to shame.

And just think about how much less stress you will have not worrying about damaging the car. Chances are strong you'll actually find the Miata is more fun.

I say this because I bought a Miata after hitting T-Hill three times in my BMW M Coupe. I'm going to full-track drift at T-Hill in the Miata tomorrow. I will get through 1:45 of drifting and drive back on the same tires, hardly the worse for wear.

Oh... and my NT-01s have lasted me since December. They are at about half tread depth now. They have seen 2 SVR PCA Auto-X'es (one with two drivers) and 6 track days (several of those with two drivers).

1: Buy dedicated track tires for the track

2: Buy dedicated street tires for the street

3: Do not let them see each other, they get jealous

4: Aggressive driving will wear tires

Josh wrote: Just to confirm, you did two track days here on a *street tire* and chunked out your outside front. And not only are you surprised by this, you conclude this constitutes a defect? See all those hard left hand turns on that map? That's what chunked your tire, not anything Dunlop or Tire Rack did. In fact, I am pretty impressed that they were willing to give you a partial credit for a new tire against their own policies. If anything, your story confirms that the Tire Rack is intent on keeping customers happy. But if they went around replacing street tires every time they chunked on a track, they'd either go out of business or have to raise their prices, and I dont think I want either of those to happen!

100% AGREE.

Get a set of used spare rims and buy race tires for those rims, keep your street tires for the street..

Problem solved.

Kudos for taking these comments so well

Hatzenbach wrote: Porsche Boxster S (mid-engine, rear-drive) The tire which gets the most pounding (at least with my driving style) is probably the rear right (when I throttle steer through turn 3)

Hatzenbach wrote: And one corection: When I wrote that I pound the rear tire the most in turn 3 I meant turn 2 - sorry.

It sounds to me like you abuse your tires, which could be the cause of early failure. You know you do it, but you want someone else to pay. So they offered to pay 50%, and you're still upset? It sounds like Tire Rack went above and beyond what other companies would have done.

If I was Tire Rack, I'd immediately rescind the 50% refund offer, and tell you to pound salt. The customer is not always right, and some customers cost more than they're worth.