I really despise this kind of stuff. Years ago in Tulsa, they paid millions for sound abatement for homes near the airport. The last 33 homes cost $800k.
Move next to airport, complain about sound from airport, taxpayers pay to renovate your homes because of sound.
What a weird world we live in.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:Idea: sell the track to developers, with the conditions that the original layout of the pavement be retained (as public roads) and that a minimum of 10 weekends per year are reserved for street course wheel to wheel racing and/or time trails and/or rally stages.
Everybody's happy!
So Bathurst.
Excellent.
I am not sure if it was Monterey County that spent millions to repave the track , and upsate the rest last year ,
There is big money and both sides , and Monterey County is not going to want to miss the paydays,
I must say that the highway going East did get very crowded going East to Salinas during Rennsport and if I was a local I would not be happy ,
But the track was there before the $5 million dollar houses were ever built ,
Anyone who buys a house, or property, anywhere near a racetrack - or an airport, or whatever - AFTER the racetrack (or airport, or whatever) already existed, then decides to complain about it/protest it/file a lawsuit/whatever, should not only be laughed out of court, they should have a lawsuit brought AGAINST THEM, for filing a frivolous lawsuit.
Every. Single. Time.
For LOTS of money. And a couple hundred hours of community service, picking up trash along the highway or something fun like that. In the middle of summer. With no shade.
This is directly why I am registered for the Gridlife event at Laguna this September. I want to drive it before I can't anymore.
I have no basis for the following but it's what I expect.
I don't think it's likely that ALL racing operations will cease at Laguna. It will remain a park and racing circuit probably forever. I think what is definitely a possibility is it will only be a racing circuit for 5-10 Pro-level sound deregulated events per year that bring in big $$ (Indycar, MotoGP, Velocity International, etc). Club/HPDE/Manufacture testing use that is less profitable and is what keeps the track noisy hundreds of days a year will be what goes. It seems unlikely to survive continued lawsuits from moneyed interests in an environment that has shown that historic facility use is not as valuable as current potential development of the surrounding areas.
Hopefully I am wrong and we will be able to use Laguna for MANY years in the future for events where normal people get to use their cars on it.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:It used to be called Ford Ord and it was an Army Base with a field artillery target range. I think that might have actually been louder than the race track.
Correct. As I recall there is a section fenced off where there is a munitions field that has not been completely cleared. There is also a environmental problem from when the Fort was in operation. I'm not sure it is land that could be sfely developed.
nocones said:I don't think it's likely that ALL racing operations will cease at Laguna. It will remain a park and racing circuit probably forever. I think what is definitely a possibility is it will only be a racing circuit for 5-10 Pro-level sound deregulated events per year that bring in big $$ (Indycar, MotoGP, Velocity International, etc). Club/HPDE/Manufacture testing use that is less profitable and is what keeps the track noisy hundreds of days a year will be what goes. It seems unlikely to survive continued lawsuits from moneyed interests in an environment that has shown that historic facility use is not as valuable as current potential development of the surrounding areas.
That's pretty much where it is already - there are only a few loud events allowed per year. That was a big deal for the Miata Reunion, the fact that we were able to get two of the 105 dB days.
According to the Drive article there are only supposed to be 35 event days per year, with 24 of those being small (<5000 people). But looking at the track calendar, they're obviously booking more than that. There are a couple of dozen events in February alone. That's the track rental that's called out in the lawsuit. Is that an increase from historical norms? Certainly compared to 2020-21 it is. But how about 2019?
I was listening to an excellent interview on the Freakonomics podcast with Michael Roth of Wesleyan University. One phrase that really stuck in my brain was (more-or-less): "We've got lots of people around here who are really good at stopping things. We need more people who are good at starting things".
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:It used to be called Ford Ord and it was an Army Base with a field artillery target range. I think that might have actually been louder than the race track.
Sort of. Right next to it actually.
Just to give an idea of what we are talking about. We are essentially talking about a a couple of houses, especially that one an the end of the canyon there. Do note rifle range as mentioned previously:
A wider shot to highlight the absurdity more:
bobzilla said:But they also have some of the strictest sound regs in the country as well. 90dB is the limit there. That's what an normal hairdryer makes. Now, the closest house is 2400ft from T1 at Laguna and there is a large hill seperating them. These people are just bitching to bitch at this point so berkeley them .
EDIT: Even without the physical land masses in the way to attentuate the sound, distance also comes into play. The limit of 90 is at 10ft. Sound drops approximately 6dB everytime the distance doubles. While they CAN hear it, it's not loud and disruptive.
Granted, it's been a while since I ran at Laguna Seca, but last I read, the 90 dB applies only to amateur events - you know, you and I running our cars there. When the well-funded teams arrive for big events, the sound limit magically vanishes for the weekend. [Edit: as noted above, the track is granted X number of events a year to be run "loud."]
kb58 said:bobzilla said:But they also have some of the strictest sound regs in the country as well. 90dB is the limit there. That's what an normal hairdryer makes. Now, the closest house is 2400ft from T1 at Laguna and there is a large hill seperating them. These people are just bitching to bitch at this point so berkeley them .
EDIT: Even without the physical land masses in the way to attentuate the sound, distance also comes into play. The limit of 90 is at 10ft. Sound drops approximately 6dB everytime the distance doubles. While they CAN hear it, it's not loud and disruptive.
Granted, it's been a while since I ran at Laguna Seca, but last I read, the 90 dB applies only to amateur events - you know, you and I running our cars there. When the well-funded teams arrive for big events, the sound limit magically vanishes for the weekend.
Depends on who booked the day. There are only so many high decibel days available in a year, and they're more expensive due to supply and demand. They tend to get reserved for big events for obvious reasons, it's why they exist. But occasionally there is a high(er) decibel day available for amateur events.
aircooled said:Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:It used to be called Ford Ord and it was an Army Base with a field artillery target range. I think that might have actually been louder than the race track.
Sort of. Right next to it actually.
Just to give an idea of what we are talking about. We are essentially talking about a a couple of houses, especially that one an the end of the canyon there. Do note rifle range as mentioned previously:
A wider shot to highlight the absurdity more:
From the County website: The original Laguna Seca Raceway was built in 1957 at a cost of $1.5 million raised from local businesses and individuals on part of the US Army’s Fort Ord (a maneuver area and field artillery target range) after the nearby Pebble Beach Road Races were abandoned for being too dangerous. In 1974, the property was deeded over to the Monterey County Parks Department. The entire facility is owned by Monterey County.
Edit: this has a better history.
Here is a shot of the closest house. The track is essentially over the hill with the trees on it in the right of the frame. The rifle range is directly right of this shot, over another hill, and a bit closer.
Keith Tanner said:Laguna Seca has been under attack before. This time it's because there has been an increase in activity over the past few years. Not that Laguna Seca is getting more use, but that it was very quiet for a couple of years due to covid.
I think it's more to do with the closure for repaving that took ~ 9 months (Nov 2022 through June 2023) than covid. This meant that all of the high-db days were back loaded into the second half of last year.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
That makes a lot of sense.
Keith Tanner said:According to the Drive article there are only supposed to be 35 event days per year, with 24 of those being small (<5000 people). But looking at the track calendar, they're obviously booking more than that. There are a couple of dozen events in February alone. That's the track rental that's called out in the lawsuit. Is that an increase from historical norms? Certainly compared to 2020-21 it is. But how about 2019?
They must be using different definitions of "event". Laguna is booked for track rental essentially 7 days a week and has been for as long as I've been going there (25 years). There have been two extended closures in recent years -- 3 months for covid in 2020, and 9 months for repaving last year.
I suspect "35 event days" probably refers to events that attract a significant public attendance as spectators/etc. Pro events, big amateur events (NASA champs was there a couple years ago), the "Sea Otter classic" (a big bicycle race on the track), stuff like that.
I wonder how much Grid Life's no sound weekend and drifting affected this lawsuit? Hell I bet the music stages were waaaaaaaay louder than the cars.
In reply to aircooled :
This karen really needs to chill out.....
bobzilla said:Datsun240ZGuy said:Ironically I joke with the wife that if anything happens to her I might move to Elkhart Lake so I can hear the cars racing all weekend.
Sebring for me. I wanna be warm.
What kind of bratwurst are the Germans making down there in Sebring? Any good?
Yep, nothing new here. It is repeatedly brought to you by jerks who tell others they live in Monterey (city, not county), but don't--grumpiness sponsored by delusion (and ironically privilege). The same kind of idiots sue the city/county of L.A. all the time because LAX is noisy.
The "nothing new here" part is the important part. I don't recall the Drive article mentioning this, but this E36 M3 show has been going on for a couple of decades at least, and this is just the latest salvo in that low level conflict.
The backstory on how the Highway 53 coalition came into being is actually quite sad, and I don't know if that founder is still part of it. But there's more to it than home values and NIMBYs, even though the effect is the same.
I was at Rennsport this summer at Laguna Seca and there is no way in hell they had a 90db cap on cars. The old stuff was quiet but the modern 911 race series were ear splitting. My watch was shooting off warnings at 130db. I think part of the problem is the newish popularity of all these track days and races. 10-15 years ago it was just die hards and I think that track almost closed. Now every weenie with a fat wallet is on track. I read they are slated for almost 7 days a week of events at some points in the calendar weeks on end.
There definitely are some folks who just built in the wrong spots. Go over the ridge and it is dead quiet.
GTwannaB said:I was at Rennsport this summer at Laguna Seca and there is no way in hell they had a 90db cap on cars. The old stuff was quiet but the modern 911 race series were ear splitting. My watch was shooting off warnings at 130db. I think part of the problem is the newish popularity of all these track days and races. 10-15 years ago it was just die hards and I think that track almost closed. Now every weenie with a fat wallet is on track. I read they are slated for almost 7 days a week of events at some points in the calendar weeks on end.
As Keith says, the noise cap varies from day to day (and, in fact, from hour to hour at times). There are a handful of unlimited days, used for high end pro days. Indycar gets those, for example, and I expect things like Rennsport and whatever Historics is called now do as well. There are 105 db days, 103 db days, 92 db days, and the lowest level is 90 db. The vast majority of days are 90 or 92 db, the loud ones go to pro events, a few SCCA SFR regional race weekends (SCCA has a tight relationship with Laguna because they provide the volunteers who staff all of the pro events), and probably a dozen or so track days a year.
As for number of events, yes, they are booked "7 days a week of events at some points in the calendar weeks on end". This is not new, it has been like that for at least the last decade. The track is always short on money, letting it sit idle doesn't help. The uses aren't always track days, the Allen Berg race school has a lot of days there, and auto manufacturers also rent it for various purposes. Mercedes/AMG usually has it booked a few times a year, and I have heard Tesla tests their cars there quietly (both literally and figuratively!). The track is closed on Thanksgiving day (but not Black Friday!) and for a few days around Christmas. There are also usually a few weeks a year where it's not rented out because they're doing track maintenance before big events like Indycar.
earlybroncoguy1 said:Anyone who buys a house, or property, anywhere near a racetrack - or an airport, or whatever - AFTER the racetrack (or airport, or whatever) already existed, then decides to complain about it/protest it/file a lawsuit/whatever, should not only be laughed out of court, they should have a lawsuit brought AGAINST THEM, for filing a frivolous lawsuit.
Every. Single. Time.
For LOTS of money. And a couple hundred hours of community service, picking up trash along the highway or something fun like that. In the middle of summer. With no shade.
That's much more civilized. I was going to say have them drawn and quartered in the town square.
z31maniac said:earlybroncoguy1 said:Anyone who buys a house, or property, anywhere near a racetrack - or an airport, or whatever - AFTER the racetrack (or airport, or whatever) already existed, then decides to complain about it/protest it/file a lawsuit/whatever, should not only be laughed out of court, they should have a lawsuit brought AGAINST THEM, for filing a frivolous lawsuit.
Every. Single. Time.
For LOTS of money. And a couple hundred hours of community service, picking up trash along the highway or something fun like that. In the middle of summer. With no shade.
That's much more civilized. I was going to say have them drawn and quartered in the town square.
at least tarred and feathered
You'll need to log in to post.
