Last Years For Decent Analog Cars?

VW going automatic thread and my 2 newer vehicles are reinforcing my dislike for new cars. I cannot stand my 2014 Dodge, my ETC light went on for the first time in my 2012 VW, etc.

I do not plan on buying a newer car than 20xx, what is 20xx?

We replaced the Dodge with a 1968 VW. I may keep the 2012 VW going as it is berkeleying fun for a street car. I love my 2003 Tacoma, but I need something to tow. My 2007 Cayman is borderline the last analog Porsche years. The rest are 1985 and older so they do not matter.

I plan on a 12v Cummins swapped Jeep J-truck to replace the Taco.

Once the electronics cannot be fixed on the '12 VW I will be looking for something older to build/drive.

I will go EV when they pry the keys of my ICE cars out of my cold hand. Ok, not really, I do want an Alpha Wolf for a local DD if/when they come out.

When is arguably the last years for good analog cars?

2023 Miata? 

Wasn't the last year for carburetors in America 1992?

In reply to David S. Wallens :

Fly By Wire?

Good in the New England winter?

Appleseed said:

Wasn't the last year for carburetors in America 1992?

I google therefore . . . 

 The last car to have a carburetor was an Isuzu pickup from 1994

No idea of the exact date, but it's prior to 2003.

You'd really have to define analog.  Are you wanting a points-type distributor?

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

Yeah, define "analog". I felt the 2010 Forte was a very good, communicative car that did what you asked, but it was a TBW and had ABS. But it was still Hydraulic P/S. 

I guess I am posting for the Hive to define analog. My guess it will be like the comments in this Hagerty Article (Sorry GRM for posting competitor content).

I know it's not my current rental with lane assist, auto braking, blind spot alerts, back up camera, etc. I cannot stand the snow mobile transmissions some cars have as well. I'd rather not get started on active suspension and torque vectoring etc that can make a E36 M3ty driver look good. As in the posted article I don't want to drive a 5G smart phone around.

For me I guess it would be: No nanny systems, mechanical FI or carb, maybe ABS but 80s/90s style, petronix style ignition or points as I still own a dwell meter and can use it, hydraulic power steering or manual, etc. 

Forgiving the EFI and computer my '03 Tacoma is close.

When I switched from a 1984 Honda Prelude to a "modern" 1990 Miata, it was enough to convince me to never go back.  The Honda was good, but the Miata was so much better.  EFI vs. carbs that were finicky in the cold and had dozens of vacuum lines, all of which needed to be replaced by 1989.  The early cats didn't work as well, particularly with carbs.  And the Honda still had plenty of sensors and switches that could go bad and be unobtainable now.

I guess it really comes down to your definition of analog.  No ABS or traction control?  No dozens of computers making decisions for you?  Or simply no digital chips?  Personally, I'd go back to an early 90s Honda for a daily, but not earlier.

I think the 90s were peak "pure" analog. I think the 2000s were peak "vehicles" in terms of performance/features/driving. By the time the 2010s came along, thats when things started being mandatory/required that had nothing to do with actual safety. Mandated backup cameras, driver assists for dummies (beyond Traction Control/ABS, like lane assist, automatic braking, etc), and most cars became electric power assisted instead of hydraulic power assisted. Cars of the 2010s/2020s are evaluated on a case by case basis.

A few examples Include:

90s - Golden era Hondas (EG/EK/DC2), NA/NB Miatas, 986 Boxsters

2000s - E46 3 Series/M, E90 3 Series/M,  NC Miata, 987 Cayman/Boxsters

2010s - FRS/BRZ Twins, ND Miata, Civic Si/Type R, 718 Cayman/Boxster

2020s - everything has mandatory driving assists and other stuff.

In reply to preach :

I think you are looking for when electronic nannies became so prevalent, not necessarily "pure" analog. 
 

For me, my 2013 truck is about as new as I want. 

I think E30 vs E36 BMW. Technically the E30 was digital, but it was a product of an older, more traditional quality-based mindset. The E36, while a lovely car in many ways, was the product of a for lack of a better term, more "plastic" mindset. 

It depends on exactly what you mean by "analog." If literal you gotta hit the way back machine pretty far and enjoy adjusting your points 

I was just catching up with another shop owner a few days ago about when the PITA started. At least with the VW we figured out that things got worse with the MK5s when all the systems started to go full CANbus, lots of additional systems and changes to make things more complicated and interdependent. We both agreed that when the Mk4s came out they were awful but after them the down hill got steep. I'm fighting an EVAP issue in my 06 Odyssey that is probably the most frustrating diagnosis and repair I have ever tried to do (3mos in now) so I am now changing my vote to anything OBD2 and later be damned 

The horse.

But really the evo8/evo9 had some tech in them but felt very analog to me. But I was born in 1989 and started driving in 2005 so what would I know!

It's a rolling number about 20 years ago.

In reply to yupididit :

Good grief!  I was driving 14 years before you were born!!

In reply to Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) :

The people in my office know I'm a car guy; when they ask me about their car getting an evap code.............I tell them to just cry.

I'll say it depends on country of origin/genre. To break this into grossly oversimplified chunks, those are domestic, European, and Asian. In the years from 1990 to 2005, all of them went thru the same transition--er, teething problems--and eventually came out the other side of 2005 as the detestable rolling smart phones that are the protagonist of this thread. My hard rule is nothing with built-in distraction units or cameras.

My newest car is the 2003 E39 (530i). It's the perfect balance of new and old for the German variety, the best of the last generation of pre-Bangled classics. Granted, I would do some things differently if I had a say in the design, but those are details (looking at you, cardboard water lines).

Domestics in the 90s were a frustrating mix of trying too hard to modernize old E36M3 while not being smart enough about the new tech they were rolling in, plus not giving a damn about interiors or build quality. Reference: GM's OBD 1.5 and the ubiquitous pile of plastic panels as an excuse for a creature space. Plus, the new cars didn't last any longer than the old stuff yet. By the time the garbage was removed from the offerings in general, time had passed and tech took over, making them too "new" for me. Therefore, my interest stops in the late 80s because newer gets you nothing enticing.

Asian stuff was all over the map depending heavily on manufacturer. We all remember 1990s Kias, but they were trying and learning. Toyota had things pretty well in-hand as the smart kid on the block, bolstered by Nissan and Honda as the vanilla product for the masses. Mazda was just starting to build "fun" cars on purpose. There were also plenty of up-market enthusiast cars, but how much fun are the 300ZX and Supra to work on and keep running 100% in stock form?

Analog to me means comfortable in all regards. What that looks like is a tastefully updated classic, perhaps with a Megasquirt-controlled LS. Systems that work as they should. All-weather usability and long-term dependability. Maybe some nice seats that are better than a park bench. But no Mk60 ABS.

In reply to Tom1200 :

I'd rather have OBDII to tell me something is failing instead of discovering it when it's more expensive. 
A lot of the electronics are there to make things more reliable- like coil on plug over distributor. Or even ETC over cable. And I'm not really sure there is a better "feel" on more analog cars- carbs result in a/f holes just because they cant be compensated for everything. So the hesitation you get isn't a feature, but a flaw. 
 

I get people not wanting to do it, as long as they fully accept that cars now are considerably more reliable and last longer with less work.

And one small problem, as time goes on, if you are not willing to do the work yourself, there are less and less mechanics that know how to work on +30 year old cars. 

For me the dividing line is any nannies that you can't completely turn off; be they lane assist or auto braking. 

Note I view ABS as tool and so ABS cars can still be analog in my mind.

When did they stop offering good old "stupid keys"  and start using Smart keys which cost $100s ?

I am really bad with keys !

My 2005 express van still uses a "Stupid" key

alfadriver said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

I'd rather have OBDII to tell me something is failing instead of discovering it when it's more expensive. 
A lot of the electronics are there to make things more reliable- like coil on plug over distributor. Or even ETC over cable. And I'm not really sure there is a better "feel" on more analog cars- carbs result in a/f holes just because they cant be compensated for everything. So the hesitation you get isn't a feature, but a flaw. 
 

I get people not wanting to do it, as long as they fully accept that cars now are considerably more reliable and last longer with less work.

And one small problem, as time goes on, if you are not willing to do the work yourself, there are less and less mechanics that know how to work on +30 year old cars. 

I should clarify my comments:

I am fine with OBD II. My comments were specific to an evap code; it can often be one of a dozen things and finding it may take many many hours............it's the modern equivalent of an intermittent electrical short somewhere in the dash harness......anyone who's ever attempted to resolve an evap code knows why I say just cry.

As for hesitations on carbs.............none of my cars do that. Granted both of them are using slide carbs (Keihin and Mikuni). My Beta 520 enduro has a Keihin flat slide carb and it to is flawless.

Tom1200 said:

In reply to Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) :

The people in my office know I'm a car guy; when they ask me about their car getting an evap code.............I tell them to just cry.

I can't do an evap function test because somehow I have a code for a motor mount 

Obd 1 was good and basic. 
obd 2 without a bunch of added modules everywhere is better and still rock solid. 
 

I see proprietary electronics as the main bugger. 

TJL (Forum Supporter) said:

Obd 1 was good and basic. 
obd 2 without a bunch of added modules everywhere is better and still rock solid. 
 

I see proprietary electronics as the main bugger. 

Your comment about proprietary electronics is my fear as well.  Maybe the future will get better about this, but it seems like it's not a big hurdle for the aftermarket to make the mechanical parts and simple sensors that the OEM discontinues - a brake caliper, for example, isn't a big deal.  But when the VIN-coded left door handle opening computer goes out, that's not something that's easily replicated.  And I'd bet that the OEMs would make some DCMA claim if you tried to.

Those gauge clusters that are just big LED monitors are pretty cool when the car is brand new, but in 20-30 years, what does that look like?

If I had to pick a random year, I'd say that peak long-term reliability is probably around 2010.