Learn me about MN12 T-Birds

Edit - I posted this in wrong section ($2009 Classifieds) That's what I get for working on multiple computers in the office LOL!

I'm looking for a replacement for my 04 GTO (totaled 2 days before X-Mas).

It has to RWD, potentially fit a V8 and manual trans (if it doesn't have one), and weight less than 4000lbs.

Replacements on the list: GTO, C5, E36 M3

However, I didn't want to spend alot or pick-up another payment

I've always wanted a Thunderbird (MN12) and found a few in my area that fit the bill (cheap) What are some things I need to look out for as "gotchas"?

TIA

-=PJ

FYI - The significant other absolutely hates the T-Birds

I had one for 8.5 years and loved it. Insanely reliable, very comfortable, and a good-looking car. Good cars, for what they were.

That said, it's a heavy, smooth, cruiser. Handling is not bad for the weight, but I wouldn't want to autocross or track one. The only way to get a manual was with the SC, which was a supercharged V6, although I'd be surprised if it's terribly difficult to retrofit a manual to a V8 car.

I suspect, based on the other cars on your list, you'd be happier with an E36 M3, assuming you don't mind the "issues" a 10+ year old German car will have. (Primarily electrical gremlins and above average parts costs.) I'd stick with the S52 as opposed to a V8, though. If you want to go V8, just pick up an ordinary E36.

Dude I can talk for days on this subject. I currently own 2 MN12s ( a 95 4.6 and a 94 SC) and sold another SC last year. The SC is the fastest and most fun but also the most problematic. The V8 cars are actually pretty damn bulletproof aside from the transmission, which are slightly better in the 96-97 cars than the 94-95 models. Decide which engine you want first. If you want a 5.0 get a 93 (better brake options and revised gas tank. If you want a 4.6 go with a 96-97 (better tranny and cylinder heads). For a Supercoupe get a 94-95 (better blower and more). Run like hell from a 3.8 NA since they pop head gaskets just as often as the SC without any of the fun factor.

All 94-95 models have notoriously thin clearcoat that peels and looks awful. You can only get a 5-speed with the SC package but it's not the best tranny in the world (M5R2 from the F150). In the automatics the TRMLP sensor goes bad every so often and so the trans computer gets confused as to where you have the shifter and will just sort of go into whatever gear it feels like. An unexpected 4-2 downshift on the freeway is always exciting. Replacement SC automatic ride control shocks are impossible to find, so just be aware. Front ball joints go bad more often than they should. If you get a 96-97 V8 make sure the intake manifold is the updated part with the metal coolant crossover at the front; plastic intakes WILL CRACK and spew coolant everywhere. Seriously, if you have any questions, let me know. I have a fever, and more T-Bird is the only cure.

billy3esq wrote: I suspect, based on the other cars on your list, you'd be happier with an E36 M3, assuming you don't mind the "issues" a 10+ year old German car will have. (Primarily electrical gremlins and above average parts costs.) I'd stick with the S52 as opposed to a V8, though. If you want to go V8, just pick up an ordinary E36.

I have owned a 99 E36 M3 before the GTO and I have 93 325is that is the track rat with none of the German gremlins (stripped and soon to have a 302 for some V8 motivation).

The issue with the E36 M3 is it was a nickel and dime mobile that led to purchase of the GTO. I found a few in the $7K category but I know they will need a $$$ to "be right". If I purchased one for $10-12K, I made as well get another GTO (excellent highway cruiser).

billy3esq wrote: That said, it's a heavy, smooth, cruiser. Handling is not bad for the weight, but I wouldn't want to autocross or track one. The only way to get a manual was with the SC, which was a supercharged V6, although I'd be surprised if it's terribly difficult to retrofit a manual to a V8 car.

I autocross my SC and enjoy it but I suspect that most people would not. And you really don't want to swap a manual into a V8 car. Installing the SC clutch pedal is ridiculously complicated due to the complete lack of open space under the hood, and the problem with using a T45 or T5 (depending on engine) is that the shifter handle pokes up directly underneath the radio in the center console. To put the shifter in the right location you need to buy or make a shifter box extension, and that part is incredibly rare and no longer in production. The company that sold it doesn't even exist anymore.

With all that said one of the guys in my club has a 600+ RWHP Vortech-blown 4.6 '96 T-Bird with a 5-speed and it's without a doubt the nicest MN12 I've ever seen.

The manual swap in a MN12 sounds like issue with the T56 in the GTO. Build a remote shifter or modify the shifter in an L-shape.

i had a '90 SC, it was a great car for making miles on the highway. it would cruise all day at 75-80 mph and not have an issue. it was comfortable and quiet. mine was the auto and it was still able to get decent fuel milage. lower 30's were common on the highway. i loved the sound of the supercharger. the engine was hard to work on with all the intercooler plumbing, even something as easy as the alternator was a pain to change. i never did change the plugs myself i had them done at a shop, you can't see them or get to them every easily. it was a hard car to work on, but a fun car.

here is a good resource if you want to find out about the SC's

Had a 95 V8. I'll second what other have said about it being a great highway cruiser. Best long distance highway car I've ever owned. A combination of electrical gremlins in the airbag system and high gas prices in 2001 caused me to get rid of it.

boofighter wrote: here is a good resource if you want to find out about the SC's

You forgot the link, which I can only assume to be www.sccoa.com, the Super Coupe Club of America. I'm a member.

Just did a 351 three speed swap in an 89 for a Lemons car. Not Fun. The 3.8 and the auto tranny puked last year. We finished on 4 cylinders and 1st gear. Makes a pretty good Lemons car for a beater POS. With a plasma cutter, welder and a sledge, the 351 fits. Shifter almost ended up too far back. Drive shaft was the only thing that fit with out modification. Should be a blast to drive.

I know where a SC is for $600.00. Has a misfire, possibly a head gasket.

Umm, that was a 351W 3 speed swapped into an '86, which is a Fox body. 'Nother whole can o'worms there, bud.

Jensenman wrote: Umm, that was a 351W 3 speed swapped into an '86, which is a Fox body. 'Nother whole can o'worms there, bud.

Whoops, you're right. The other one my son had was an 89.

Toyman01 wrote: I know where a SC is for $600.00. Has a misfire, possibly a head gasket.

Send more information please :) (PJ_Hooka AT yahoo)

Will wrote:

boofighter wrote: here is a good resource if you want to find out about the SC's

You forgot the link, which I can only assume to be www.sccoa.com, the Super Coupe Club of America. I'm a member.

thanks, don't know what happened to the link.

I drove a 1992 5.0 Thunderbird Sport for around a dozen years. Bought it 2 yrs old with 25K and finally scrapped it at 230K miles. Still ran OK, but it was just getting really tired and the body was looking pretty rough plus I had hit a deer with it.

What a great car; I would like to buy another someday. Of course, what is there not to like about a big V8 RWD Coupe with IRS. Mine was nearly bulletproof, and I had very few mechanical problems in all that time other than getting the auto trans. rebuilt. The only time I ever had to touch the engine was for a water pump and alternator when it had 170K or so.

The rocker panels do have a tendency to rust just ahead of the rear wheels (at least up here in the north)

Now only if I can find a 5spd one . . . Toyman, thanks for the information!!

Check the classifieds at sccoa. There's bound to be a couple 5-speeds for sale.