Learn me bargain Swedish cars

Looking for a new daily soon. I don’t have a hard budget but ~$5000 is the goal. I was dead set on a Mazda 3 with a manual but at this price range they’re all near 200k miles. Ouch. Still looking but considering other options  

 I have come across slightly older Saabs and Volvos. For this money I can find a clean example around 10-15 years old with 100-150k miles. Often they’re in good shape and have more features for less dollars. 

So learn me!

Specifically: I’m looking at 9-3s of all flavors (hoping for a wagon with a manual) and S40/V50/S60 Volvos. Maybe a C30 if I find a good one. 

I DIY but I have a new baby and I would rather spend time with her than under the hood every weekend. I’ve kept a few old German cars on the road if that is any gauge of my skill level and tolerance for E36 M3. Somewhere between Mazda and Porsche maintenance is acceptable. BMW maintenance is not. 

Bad idea? Enable me?

bonus: there's a 2006 V50 T5 AWD wirh a manual near me for $4k and I'm quite interested. Im having trouble finding info about these cars, they seem kinda rare but not quite unicorn. Any gotchas? Is the timing belt a massive pain on a 5 cylinder? Does it have a timing belt?

As someone who has owned plenty of both, if you have a new baby you're trying to spend time with, just buy a Japanese appliance...

The last Saabs ever made ever are now more than a decade old and NLA parts are starting to become a serious problem from what I've been hearing. And all of the turbo white block Volvos I've owned have needed more maintenance than any of the dozen BMW's I've ever owned.

If you are dead set on the idea you would want a non-turbo (2.4i) front drive S40/V50 which is basically a fancied-up Focus, though they do still have dumb problems (catastrophic heater core failures, dumb sunroof drains that flood the car and destroy the electronics). But yes all Volvos have timing belts and they are interference engines. Saab uses chains but the Ecotec models are known for tensioner failures...avoid the turbo V6 as they are impossible to work on and have some fundamental component failure issues related to heat and packaging...

In reply to spandak :

Ford Focus? Similar car to the Mazda. I have the 2.3 duratec / manual in my SUV and it has been really reliable. Plus, I'm sure there's a decent aftermarket should the bug hit. 

I don't know much about Saab or Volvo. That is interesting about Porsche and BMW.. I figured Porsche would be worse. 

I have a 2006 V50 T5 AWD, but with the automatic. It's a reasonably entertaining and surprisingly useful car, but it has required some attention in my two years of ownership. Right now, the A/C has a leak I haven't yet tried to locate, and the steering rack has a sticky spool valve when it's cold (perfect for the winter beater role it performs, of course). I had a plastic heater hose connector blow up, which could have been fatal, but I knew what happened and didn't let it get hot; I replaced the connectors with brass. The starter died inconveniently while I was on vacation; had to have a shop replace it. I've had the sunroof drain problem - though the p/o had replaced the tubing, he ran it into the rubber firewall connectors rather than just extending the tubes all the way through. No secondary damage, just clean-up and drying out. There's been a few other things, but nothing catastrophic. It will get a timing belt - its second - next year, and I need to redo the headliner. All that said, it's got 215k miles on it, so I can't be too critical. I got some records from the p/o, who replaced some suspension parts and other bits I can't recall right now.

On the plus side, it's really comfortable, drives well, has enough power to be entertaining, and is a beast in the snow. Maintenance access isn't bad for the most part, aside from a couple of items (the airbox removal process is just dumb). The cargo area is a little tight, but with some fiddling you can get surprisingly large things in there. I regularly carry my bikes inside, and we hauled a big Art Deco cabinet home a few weeks ago. There's very little to complain about, really. I like it enough that I've been commuting in it the last couple weeks, even though I really only intended to use it in the winter. I like it more than I expected to. Find one with some history and I think you will enjoy it.

If you were looking at a Mazda 3, the C30/S40/V50 are the same chassis (P1 in Volvospeak)  All all wheel drive models are turbocharged, all C30s are turbocharged.  All have some flavor of whiteblock 5cyl.

The timing belt is one of the easiest ones you will ever do as long as you don't remove the cam pullies to change the seals.  Mark the belt and pullies and transfer the marks to the new belt.  The cam sprockets are not keywayed, and if they are variable cam timing, they also have no home position.  The crank and cam lock tools are fairly inexpensive to purchase but they require removing the starter and everything from the other side of the head.  And the procedure for aligning the cam sprockets is... weird, because they are not only not keywayed, but they are manually adjustable.  So just mark the belt and slap it together 

The electrohydraulic power steering is the same unit as the 3, IIRC.  The interiors are a bit weird to me with the kind of minimalistic flow through center stack but the HVAC controls are very, very nice.  (You can control where the air goes individually, so you can have, say, defrost and dash vents if you want)

The key thing with the P1 is that while it was the same chassis as the 3, the 3 is rated as the worst car sold in the modern era for rustproofing and the P1 is rated as the best.  That's the difference between building a car in Japan and in Sweden as far as build quality and paint materials goes.  (I have had (counts on fingers) six Mazdas, and two Volvos.  The Mazdas are not allowed outside for half the year)

Hmm, much to think about. I hadn't realized it's the same chassis as the Mazda. A few years ago I owned a MS3 and a 2nd gen focus at the same time.Looks like I'm going back  I'm considering a newer focus as well but can't find a reason to buy one over a Mazda. The Ford looks worse and seems to have more issues overall. Besides rust, which is a non-issue in the southwest, the Mazdas don't really have problems. The 2.0 skyactiv is the first engine I've ever researched that has no major failure points. But I am hoping for a 2.5 duratec model instead. 
 

Anywayyyy this has been insightful. I don't think I'm completely turned off to the Swedish cars but I'm not sure they will be quite what I'm hoping for. I've been very fortunate that my Boxster has been rock solid and I'm not really looking to roll the dice again on another euro. At least not yet. In a few years I'll want a 4 seat convertible for the family and C70s/9-3s are quite affordable as well so I'll probably be back. But I'm all over the road too, even 955 Cayennes are catching my eye and that has to be a worse idea. I'm such a sucker for value....
 

I bought a C30 in March of this year and the honeymoon has not worn off. This car is as much of as blast as it was the day I bought it.

That said, It's a 2 door. The greenhouse is super tapered. I wouldn't want to put a cars eat in one of these. The hatch is super good looking but kinda lousy for loading stuff.

The turning radius sucks. The mileage is... not great.

I loooooooove my car but It might not be the best with a kiddo in the back.

I'd pick a Volvo over a Saab any day. Getting Saab parts can be a real challenge. There is no dealer to go to for anything. 

Both cars suffer from poor resale value so when hit they total pretty quickly.

In reply to ddavidv :

A lot of insurers simply won't cover SAAB because they are a total for any kind of collision.

YMMV of course, but of the 4 SAAB's in my driveway State Farm has insured them all and the only one that takes some time to find parts for is the 86 900.

We love that people are scared about the availability of SAAB parts. As they generally are fantastic cars that can be bought very well. My son is driving a 2003 9-3 Viggen. He has put 50k on it so far with very minimal needs other than maintenance items. this is a 6 speed car with the 2.0 . Its a GREAT driver. 30mpg smooth tight quiet great seats....       The hard to find bits are the trim pieces. Which can be found used.     The all time least problematic one that we owned was a C900 non turbo convertible that saved my bacon when things were tough. I put 100K very not fast miles on that car and it never needed a non maintenance item nor failed to get me where I needed to go.      The most troublesome were a series of 900 SPGs that I tried and tried to restore. So very good when they were happy and so on the side of the road again when they weren't. That's when I started keeping a tow vehicle at the house....   As in all older cars, find one that has been well kept. 

I've owned over 50 Saabs and currently have... a few. I've never seen these parts availability issues with anything other than an NG9-5 ('10-'11, very uncommon car). If you're used to running to the dealership for parts (which I don't think applies to most of us here), you're going to have a bad time, but there are numerous retailers, dismantlers, and enthusiasts with hoards of parts who are ready to sell you whatever you're likely to need.

I've been active in the national forums/groups and have attended the conventions and marque-specific shows for 20+ years. I've never read anything about an insurer refusing to cover one, nor have I experienced that myself. YMMV.

With that said: I've had multiple friends with 200k+ miles and relatively few problems with their 9-3s. I was not among them. The NG9-3 is a needy bastard of a car in my experience. I bought our '08 SportCombi 2.0T/6spd from a friend whose father was the original owner. It had low miles, was optioned perfectly, and needed a E36 M3load of expensive work before it ever hit 100k miles. Dual mass flywheel failure, intake valves, fuel level sender, and vacuum pump were the highlights. I only kept it as long as I did because my wife loved it. She only let it go when she fell in love with the Elantra N. I'm enjoying the warranty, but not the payment.

We also owned a few of the earlier 9-5s and had better experiences with those if you can get them to hold their oil. These days, our Saabs are all C900s and a V4, and that's exactly how I like it.

I've recently jumped into P1 Volvo ownership with a cheap '08 C30. It seems decent so far, but I'm only a week into the experience and just got it running properly yesterday, so I'll reserve judgement on that one.

In reply to SPG123 :

About ten years ago, I put four or five aftermarket Trionic cassettes in a 9-5 before we absolutely gave up and installed a junkyard part.

The aftermarket ones would work but set a code after a while, or they would stop working and the car would come back on the hook again.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Scored a dreamy 2001 9-5 Aero about 7 or 8 years ago. One owner, garage kept, Perfect service,No paint work, low miles. Spent a few days cleaning, polishing and basic maintenance and it was stellar. Stayed that way for a few months until a rather stoned looking dude in a Ranger drove through the trunk of the car at a stop sign.Totalling it and a rather unpleasant concussion for me.  I think I would still have that car. it was fantastic. 

In reply to SPG123 :

The most concerning thing on my radar is that ECMs are totally NLA for the 9-3SS, and they are a known failure point for all T8 cars, particularly on V6s. And people trying to DIY a fix have found that it's a chip failure, not something repairable like a bad solder.

I passed on a really good deal on a 9-3SS V6 6-speed after poking around the Saab forums and finding that it's not an if but a when for the V6 cars, and there's nothing you can do other than fight for one of the dwindling supply of good used units, trying to clone your existing unit to a used one so all the modules play nice, etc...

I would not go any newer than the final cars with the T7 engine, myself (OG 9-3 & 9-5) and even then I stand by my word that if OP has a baby he's trying to spend time with, man, just get a reliable appliance, life is too short to miss being with your kid because you're cleaning sludge out of a Saab motor.

Not sure if it helps, but FCP Euro has a few video buyer's guides that might be relevant to your interests:

I would avoid the Saabs if you're not too into working on them. I have a thread running on Hazel, which is an '04 9-3 SS Linear (small t).  I bought it off the original owner for $1500, and have purchased $2700 in additional parts. It's been a death by a thousand cuts, with my largest  individual purchase being $330 for two new headlights and a case of ATF.  Plus, probably a hundred hours (low end) of time spent sorting the car. Replacing the water pump on my car was probably the most annoying piece of DIY work I've done over the years.  I've learned a lot, but there's a lot that can (and will) go wrong. I read an article about the top 9-3 problems, and I think I had most of them.

The car had great seats, soaks up miles, and the heat and heated seats are amazing. When they're 100%, they drive really well, but I've spent more time wrenching and less time driving mine. Thankfully, it was a 4th car, but I wouldn't recommend them as a DD. 

Keep looking for the Mazda 3. They are out there, I just saw a very clean one owner car with 100k on CL for $5k.

I believe Swedish car and more time with baby does not exist. Plus, the Mazda will be more fun to drive, if my memory serves me right.

Re Mazda3. I think you want to avoid 2nd gen with Skyactiv and six speed. Urban legend around NLA shifter cables and zero replacements available replacements. 

Thanks for all of the responses! These are really helpful as always

I do think I will stick with the Mazda plan. I've seen them where I'm looking they just go fast.  
 

Im still intrigued by the Swedes but I'll hold out for another time. I was looking at 9-5s years ago but it didn't seem like the right call, still the case it seems. 
 

I have never had to replace a shift cable. I knew it was a thing but I've never worried about it. Good to know. I test drove a skyactiv 6 speed and that sort of launched this whole search. It was cheap but rougher than I wanted so I passed. It's still on my radar as a backup option to the 2.5. It's not a spicy motor but moar power moar better. 

Mazda 3 with baby...  

I think you will find the rear seat of a Mazda3 to be too small for baby, especially in a rear facing seat.  

Q: What if there was a stretched Mazda3 (both length and height) that was REALLY baby friendly????  

A: Mazda5

Offered 06-10 w/ 2.3L and then 12+ w/ 2.5L.  All years offered a rare manual trans also for the base model.  

My daughter was brought home in a '10 Mazda5.  

There have been a long staple of GRMers as detailed in this long, 23 page thread.  

Random sample in LA: '10 w/118k @ $4.8k

Thankfully this is not the primary baby car so car seat fitment is low on the list. No matter what it will be better than my Boxster which is all I need. 

Love my P3 Volvo, 33k trouble free miles so far (I bought it with 125k). 

I suspect the P3 cars are probably double your budget, and certain years had really bad oil consumption issues.