docwyte
docwyte Dork
12/11/16 10:12 a.m.

My uncle had one in the day, I told him I wanted it when he was done with it. Then he sold it without telling me.

I've always been interested in getting one, at first I really wanted an E28 M5, but their values have blown through the roof.

Then one of the guys in my local BMW group decided to sell one (he has two) E34 M5's. Red/black, 84k miles, pretty good shape, most records. He recently bought it and I suspect is unhappy with the amount of sorting it needs to get truly up to 100% and wants to flip it.

Told me one of the main modules that runs the power windows/doors just broke.

So, what do I need to look out for on these and what's a fair price for one?

Any thoughts on whether these will follow in the foot steps of the older E28's in apprecaiting value?

markwemple
markwemple UltraDork
12/11/16 10:39 a.m.

I suspect they will always be cheaper then the e39. They are kinda like the e36 m3. But even more so. They will appreciate but not as fast or as much.

markwemple
markwemple UltraDork
12/11/16 10:56 a.m.

I will say people who own these usually love them and they seem to be very stout. Less to repair then the e39 or e28.

dyintorace
dyintorace GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
12/11/16 2:18 p.m.

I have always admired them. I think they are prettier than the e28 M5. Not as fast as the e39 M5, but still a hand built incredible straight 6.

docwyte
docwyte Dork
12/11/16 3:18 p.m.

Guy has a parts car and the modules are the same, he's going to swap them over tomorrow.

I'm going to check the car out this Friday am, ran out of time today as he's an hour drive away from me.

Nathan JansenvanDoorn
Nathan JansenvanDoorn Dork
12/11/16 7:15 p.m.

Very well built cars, but that s38 is shockingly expensive to repair in the unlikely event that it needs a rebuild. One of the problems the e34 M5 faces is the e34 540i 6-speed which is cheaper and roughly equally fast.

The e39 M5 is a big step up again compared to the e39 540i

seyhan3535
seyhan3535 New Reader
12/11/16 8:02 p.m.
Nathan JansenvanDoorn wrote: Very well built cars, but that s38 is shockingly expensive to repair in the unlikely event that it needs a rebuild. One of the problems the e34 M5 faces is the e34 540i 6-speed which is cheaper and roughly equally fast. The e39 M5 is a big step up again compared to the e39 540i

e34 540i 6 speed in hell rot red? Do it.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
12/12/16 8:20 a.m.
Nathan JansenvanDoorn wrote: Very well built cars, but that s38 is shockingly expensive to repair in the unlikely event that it needs a rebuild. One of the problems the e34 M5 faces is the e34 540i 6-speed which is cheaper and roughly equally fast. The e39 M5 is a big step up again compared to the e39 540i

This.

The S38 is a big S14.......look up just the cost of the timing chain guides.

Having an S14 rebuilt is a 5 digit proposition.

However, if well maintained, it won't need rebuilt until past 200k miles.

gearheadE30
gearheadE30 HalfDork
12/12/16 8:41 a.m.

My dad has a 1993 E34 M5 in Mugellorot over black, and it's got about 125k miles on the clock. That's pretty low miles, but it has been an extremely reliable car for him. In the 10 years he's had it, it has really only needed normal maintenance like water pump, hoses, and a few gaskets that started leaking oil. Solid lifters mean it still needs valve adjustments, and they are shim type, so it does cost a bit. 1993 got the slightly more desirable shadowline window trim and throwing star covers on the M System II wheels, rather than the turbine covers. All US cars were the 3.6 with a 5 speed, while Europe got a 3.8 with a 6 speed and an optional electronic suspension from 1993 to 1995. There was also an E34 M5 wagon over there. I believe all US market M5s had SLS, which uses the power steering pump to level the rear suspension. It's usually worn out by now, but is easy to delete. If you want to keep stock ride and handling, BMW still sells 535i Sport springs and dampers that match the M5 ride height and stiffness.

That S38 is one of BMW's great engines, and has one of the most badass idles and exhaust notes of any factory sedan I've driven. They have steering boxes rather than rack and pinion, so feel isn't quite on par with the 3 series cars, but M pumps and boxes are calibrated differently than plebian E34s and feel pretty good. Front suspension bushings wear quickly under hard use, but E32 750 parts are a factory upgrade that hold up well. Most of the underpinnings are shared with other E34s and aren't too expensive.

I've driven my dad's on the track and down a quarter mile a few times. It ran around a 14.8 quarter, and I don't remember what the trap speed is. Very well balanced on track, with exceptional brakes, average steering feel, and good body control for an older stock car. They'll eat the outside edge of the front tires if overdriven, though. The engine is a dream on the track, and the trans shifts much better at high RPM than at low revs. Throttle throw is a little too long, making it hard to heel-toe, but pedal placement is decent. The clutch feels very different than a normal E34 - it is stiff, long throw, and has a pronounced change in effort around engagement that can make it a little more difficult to drive smoothly on the street. A clutch stop could help.

Watchouts are poor engine maintenance, the SLS system, electronics (generally easy to fix, but the lighting control module (LKM) is a weak point), heater cores leak but are fairly easy to replace, the HVAC thermocouple in the center console has a small fan behind it that will clog with dust and vibrate/buzz, and rust on the bottoms of the doors. The seats also often get a twist due to drive cables pulling out, but this is a half hour fix that doesn't require any new parts. Thunking or vibration in the driveline is the rubber flex disc if it's around ~25mph or the center support bearing if it's under load at most speeds. Differentials occasionally pick up a whine if they don't get regular oil changes, but this is more rare on the M5. The M5's transmission is basically bulletproof. Generally very solid cars with good support and parts availability; E34s are considered to be around the high point of BMW durability. Prices vary widely - I've seen anywhere from 10k for high miles cars needing some work, up to 30+k for really good examples.

For reference, I've got an E34 525iT 5-speed and an E30 318is, and worked at a shop specializing in this era of BMW for years. I'm a little biased; these are some of my favorite cars out there.

gearheadE30
gearheadE30 HalfDork
12/12/16 8:44 a.m.

I should also add that if you're not into the maintenance but really like the E34, the S52 out of an E36 M3 will bolt into any 1993-1995 525i or 525iT with extremely minimal work. It's not an M5, but will give you good, cheap, reliable performance, and M5 front and rear bumpers can be added if you want the look. 1995 525 side skirts are the same as the M5, and can be retrofitted to any E34.

docwyte
docwyte Dork
12/12/16 8:59 a.m.

My track car is an E36 M3, this would be a fun street car for me.

Mister Fister
Mister Fister Reader
12/12/16 2:32 p.m.

Get out your wallet, prices on these are absolutely insane now.

rslifkin
rslifkin Dork
12/12/16 2:43 p.m.

The E34 is the last hand built M car, IIRC. And I'd absolutely sell a kidney for one...

markwemple wrote: I suspect they will always be cheaper then the e39. They are kinda like the e36 m3. But even more so. They will appreciate but not as fast or as much.

From a little quick CL searching, clean E34 M5s are going for a few thousand more than an equivalent E39 M5.

c0rbin9
c0rbin9 New Reader
12/12/16 3:03 p.m.

There's not much of a cheaper way to get a racing engine in your street car. I started looking at them when I realized I couldn't afford an E30 M3 and still wanted a taste of a BMW racing engine.

CyberEric
CyberEric Reader
12/12/16 8:22 p.m.

I test drove one once, probably back in 2000. I loved the looks and sounds, but the driving experience was only so-so. It just felt a little ponderous, mainly due to the driver controls. As mentioned above, the clutch pedal throw is super long (easy fix), but so is the throttle, and the one I drove felt like you had to kick the throttle in anger to get it to move. Heel and toeing was impossible. The trans is ok, with that typical BMW rubbery feel and longer throws.

The S38 needs a lot of revs and just never feels all that fast. I'm sure back in 1989 it was amazing, but I had an S52 M3 at the time and that car just seemed way more powerful. I was all excited because I knew it was hand-built with ITBs etc, but it left me wanting more. My dad had an E39 540i 6-speed that would absolutely obliterate the E34 M5, at least in the straights. The E34 did feel good through the corners, but the engine and throttle, transmission, and clutch kept me from enjoying it too much.

All that said, I still do a double take when I see one of these cars on the street, they just look so good inside and out. I want to drive one again to see if it was just that car that felt so ho-hum to me.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/12/16 8:42 p.m.

Too many numbers and letters...

E28 (Straight 6)

E34 (Straight 6)

E39 (V8)

E60 (V10)

F10 (TTV8)

Each one is awesome, and was a standout in it's day. The only way to truly be happy is to have one of each. Hello? Powerball? Are you listening?

akylekoz
akylekoz Reader
12/13/16 7:08 a.m.

My E34 with and M50 engine, close ratio (no overdrive) 5 speed and a 3:90 rear was a very entertaining ride. A friend had an E34 M5, we both can not say enough good about that fine piece of machinery.

I want the 540 wagon or 1996 or 97 540i sport, manual of course.

gearheadE30
gearheadE30 HalfDork
12/13/16 9:34 a.m.

Since you said mostly daily driver, it's true that a 540i may be a better choice. The S38 really, really likes revs, and like the E30 M3, it doesn't feel very powerful cruising around town. It's not a torquey engine, and only comes into its own above ~4500 rpm. Yes, throttle travel is extremely long. With regards to heel-toe, wide pedal faces are available to help with this. An S52 powered E34 will feel as strong or stronger than an M5 around town, simply because they have more area under the curve off the bottom.

The non-M E34s have less throttle travel and a more normal clutch feel, for whatever that's worth.

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