Learn me: BMW wagons, namely E91 and E61

Finally in the market for a wagon, namely a BMW. It's come down to either an E91 or a pre-LCI E61. They're both in the price range I'd prefer, it's just rare for them to pop up for sale in my area (Kansas City). The ones that do are high mileage (100k+), but not really worried about that. I just don't know anyone in person that owns either one as wagons in general are surprisingly rare around here...

I've looked for a very long time for an E39 for a future LS swap but moldy carpet, rust, and just not being anywhere near me has pushed me to the newer tourings.

Tech isn't all that important to me, as it's just one more thing to break and/or annoy me. If it wouldn't send the ECU in to a fritz, I'd rather delete the majority of tech that comes with either one to include the pano-roof, but that's for another discussion.

If it can fit a wife, a three year old kid, and on occasion a husky, that is all that matters. Being fun to drive also wouldn't be too bad.

I'd like to know about the DD capabilities, is the MPG really a 1-2 MPG difference between the two, should I just stay away from either one and get a F31 even if it's more than what I want to spend, etc etc.

Any help is always greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

If it were me, I'd try to find the lowest mileage example of the oldest acceptable model I could. The newer the BMW, the more, erm, challenging the technology. The E9x cars are where I'd look first, as I was never crazy about the E6x 5-series. Whatever it is, an enthusiast-owned car with records will cost more, but it's totally worth it to get a properly maintained car, as you'll be paying to get it up to speed if you don't (figure $1500-2000/year in regular maintenance costs for these cars, and a little more for the E6x, assuming you're paying for labor). If you're confining yourself to local examples you're really limiting the search - fly-and-drive opens up a lot of doors to markets where BMWs are thick on the ground.

EDIT: There's a unicorn manual non-iDrive 2011 E91 328xi in NC on Cargurus right now. Not cheap, but given the rarity it might be worth it.

SECOND EDIT: If you really want to go down the performance rabbit hole, there's this E91 330i-converted wagon: https://www.bmwcca.org/ads/158826

MPG is not so great on my e91 328ix auto.  A manual RWD would be best.  The rear seat is not the most comfy especially the middle hump part.  Nobody wants to be there for a long drive.   50lb dog rides in the way back fine.  Roof rack works great.

The handling is good, it's quiet, stereo is OK.  I like the a pano roof and it's fine on the e91, the e46 was a problem for it.  Braking is strong, AWD is seamless.  Power is adequate, another  50hp would be welcomed.

Failures so far in 2 years:  rear wiper pivot seized $125, battery $240, passenger door handle shorted so no more comfort access on it $150 for diagnosis, driver door handle is intermittent on comfort access now.  Replacements are $600 each.  Eccentric shaft sensor died from oil infiltration  $1100 covered on extended warranty.

I like the idrive.  Voice recognition is sketchy, but nav works well after I updated to 2016 maps.  Heated steering wheel is the BEST feature on the whole car.

The unicorn to get would be a manual RWD with sport seats and sport package and heated steering wheel, of course.

If it were me, I'd try to find the lowest mileage example of the oldest acceptable model I could. The newer the BMW, the more, erm, challenging the technology. The E9x cars are where I'd look first, as I was never crazy about the E6x 5-series. Whatever it is, an enthusiast-owned car with records will cost more, but it's totally worth it to get a properly maintained car, as you'll be paying to get it up to speed if you don't (figure $1500-2000/year in regular maintenance costs for these cars, and a little more for the E6x, assuming you're paying for labor). If you're confining yourself to local examples you're really limiting the search - fly-and-drive opens up a lot of doors to markets where BMWs are thick on the ground.

EDIT: There's a unicorn manual non-iDrive 2011 E91 328xi in NC on Cargurus right now. Not cheap, but given the rarity it might be worth it.

SECOND EDIT: If you really want to go down the performance rabbit hole, there's this E91 330i-converted wagon: https://www.bmwcca.org/ads/158826

The E60/1 has actually grown on me the more I see them with M5 front ends, but the E91 also looks pretty damn good with the M3 front. I've just been worried about the space w/ the E91 as it seems every UK forum complains about the lack of space in the E91 and holds the E61 as king, just because space and tech.

I've thought about doing the fly and drive option, but I've always liked being able to sleep on a decision before I pull the trigger. Not to mention with my luck, something would be wrong enough with the car for me to pass on it. That 330i converted wagon is pretty damn nice, though. 

MPG is not so great on my e91 328ix auto.  A manual RWD would be best.  The rear seat is not the most comfy especially the middle hump part.  Nobody wants to be there for a long drive.   50lb dog rides in the way back fine.  Roof rack works great.

The handling is good, it's quiet, stereo is OK.  I like the a pano roof and it's fine on the e91, the e46 was a problem for it.  Braking is strong, AWD is seamless.  Power is adequate, another  50hp would be welcomed.

Failures so far in 2 years:  rear wiper pivot seized $125, battery $240, passenger door handle shorted so no more comfort access on it $150 for diagnosis, driver door handle is intermittent on comfort access now.  Replacements are $600 each.  Eccentric shaft sensor died from oil infiltration  $1100 covered on extended warranty.

I like the idrive.  Voice recognition is sketchy, but nav works well after I updated to 2016 maps.  Heated steering wheel is the BEST feature on the whole car.

The unicorn to get would be a manual RWD with sport seats and sport package and heated steering wheel, of course.

 Thanks for the insight! A manual RWD touring truly would be ideal, but the rarity of them is a pain. I'm not even sure if a manual swap at some point would be possible/worth it with long-term goals. My daughter is still in a car seat thankfully, so I don't see the back seat being a big concern. It's nice to hear that a decent sized dog would be fine in the cargo area, though.

There's currently a '06 530xIT for $6k w/ 150k miles by me. Every package, including Sport. Then an overpriced (compared to a few ads I've seen 200+ miles away) '08 328xIT w/ 92k for $12k by me. No packages if I remember correctly, though.

I looked at E61 too, but up here they only came with the N54 motor after 2007 and I wanted something newer but without the turbo reliability issues.  I drove a pretty stinking example of an e61 530.  It was pretty slow, felt heavy, had a noisey valve train and smelled like 3 dogs lived in it.  Maybe that experience soured me on them.  They do look nice with the sport seats and stuff.

I've always preferred the E39 wagons, but I'm biased since I daily drive a 2000 540it. There's way less stuff to go wrong and parts tend to be cheaper. Plus all the E39 wagons are RWD whereas most of the E61 and E91 wagons are AWD. Also, the E61 wagons got HEAVY because of all the added tech and AWD... a lot of them weigh in well past 4100lbs, which makes the E39 540it feel downright svelte at only 3900lbs. I also feel like the E39 has a much stronger online community, which makes resolving problems a whole lot easier.

If you're okay with settling for a 6 cylinder engine, then you can find plenty of 525it/528it wagons in the E39 generation with a 5-speed manual. My vote would be for a 2000 528it with a 5-speed and the sport package. Not super common but they do exist, and that's about the best BMW wagon that you could buy in factory form.

If you're not afraid of doing a bit of work it's not that hard to turn a 540it into a 6-speed, but good luck manual swapping an E61/E91... way too many computers to deal with.

And here's my 540it for inspiration:

a guy I autocross with is a partner in a dealership and repair shop that specializes in Euro wagons. Click on their inventory and see if anything interests you - http://gmswagons.com/inventory/

Love that Passat "R."  I too am in the market for a Wagon, and specifically a BMW.  My E60 is not getting it anymore.  The E61 Pre-LCI is what I will be settling for.  At that age, I can justify adding some go fast bits to it.  The Volvo v-70R was also in the running, but just could not find one that was not abused.  The ultimate Wagon would be an E61 RWD Manual swapped V-10 M5 Wagon..... One can dream.  

I've had 8 or 9 bmws including an e39 sedan and currently drive an e61. As BMWs get newer they feel heavier and less connected (I liked my e28 about the best out of all I've had). My e61 has an N52 engine. Occasionally the valve train gets noisy. The cure is to drive it a couple of miles over 4,000 rpm. It doesn't have a ton of options so slightly less tech. It is a very nice daily - interior is higher quality than the e39. Its got an early build date so pre LCI where other 2007s are LCI models. Yes it's a bit porky on weight with the awd, but I wouldn't call it slow by any stretch. It is limited to 155 mph. The goofy - headlights have bio-degradable wiring inside that can cause issues - replacements are pricey - $700 each - I pulled mine apart and taped all the exposed wires. Lights also have directional motors (adaptive lighting) - the controllers go out ($80 each and require programming). I did have one coil go out causing a miss. Rear gate has a plastic connector that tends to break causing wackiness with the auto close mechanism ($0.15 diy fix). BMW plastic cooling system - I've had to replace a leaking overflow tank, oil filter gasket (leaked on cooling hoses - causing hoses to deteriorate, idler pulley - if they seize it's an engine killer. The hoses are odd-shaped and expensive for what they are ($400 in parts to replace). This was over 2 years and 30,000 miles - had 92k on it when I bought it. It's been about a year since it's needed anything other than a oil changes, although I suspect control arm bushings are in my future at 120k that's not unexpected. Recently noticed the power steering reservoir is leaking (same as my e39 and e36 did). Does it really need a power lift gate, power cargo cover? Not really - just added complication, but it's what people expect. I do like the start without a key thing and some of the programmable stuff. HVAC is unnecessarily complicated. They are also known for the water pumps to go out (electric IIRC). Has the forever trans fluid - change it every 60k and no oil dipstick (grr). In talking to an indy BMW mechanic he prefers the N52 to the N54. Heat from the turbo causes a fair bit more maintenance issues. He sees more expensive and more frequent needs on those. MPG wise - high 20s on the highway, low 20s in the city or less with a heavy foot. My first auto transmission BMW. As a daily around Chicago, I don't hate it. There are 6-spd manual e61s. They are truly unicorns. I think the e61s look better than the e60s. While most people seem to want giant suvs, I miss the lower profile of the e39 or e28. I think the e60/61 start getting into the pedestrian laws that raised hood heights on everything. Oh, for more rarity, I've seen an e61 545.

It does have the idrive thing. people slam on it, but it's really pretty easy to use - bluetooth compatible and inputs for phone. Programming software is available fairly cheap to deal with canbus stuff and there's lots of info on the interwebs. It's still in diy territory - just that some of the tools and procedures change over time. Overall, the tech is a leap ahead of an e39 - it's noticeable that it's a more modern car than an e39 - not necessarily a great thing - just noticeable. Around here most of the e39s are starting to show their age (chicago is tough on cars). E60/61s are getting more scarce as the F series cars take over. So as a DD I really like the car. It's not as svelt as the e39 but it's a nice place to be. It does hold our Great Pyrenees and it can eat up highway miles effortlessly. It's not a car I'd really want to put on an autocross course though.

I've always preferred the E39 wagons, but I'm biased since I daily drive a 2000 540it. There's way less stuff to go wrong and parts tend to be cheaper. Plus all the E39 wagons are RWD whereas most of the E61 and E91 wagons are AWD. Also, the E61 wagons got HEAVY because of all the added tech and AWD... a lot of them weigh in well past 4100lbs, which makes the E39 540it feel downright svelte at only 3900lbs. I also feel like the E39 has a much stronger online community, which makes resolving problems a whole lot easier.

That's why I initially went with the E39; less tech, RWD, better community support, and just lighter. Test drove a 525iT a couple years ago and it didn't even feel like I was driving a wagon. I've also noticed the online community differences between the two generations. E39 is far more DIY and project friendly. Every time I've searched for either a manual swap or the possibility of a LS swap for the E61, it's a "sell it and buy something else". I know of only two E60 LS swaps currently and one guy who "converted" his 535xIT in to a pseudo M5.

Lovely 540iT, btw. The E39 that won me over originally was the 427 swapped brown touring. Near perfection to me.

Love that Passat "R."  I too am in the market for a Wagon, and specifically a BMW.  My E60 is not getting it anymore.  The E61 Pre-LCI is what I will be settling for.  At that age, I can justify adding some go fast bits to it.  The Volvo v-70R was also in the running, but just could not find one that was not abused.  The ultimate Wagon would be an E61 RWD Manual swapped V-10 M5 Wagon..... One can dream.  

The N52 just seems to be a far more reliable engine when it comes to being a DD. And agreed, a true E61 M5 would be perfect, but it appears just going from AWD to RWD in the US Spec E61 is a pain.

 I've had 8 or 9 bmws including an e39 sedan and currently drive an e61. As BMWs get newer they feel heavier and less connected (I liked my e28 about the best out of all I've had). My e61 has an N52 engine. Occasionally the valve train gets noisy. The cure is to drive it a couple of miles over 4,000 rpm. It doesn't have a ton of options so slightly less tech. It is a very nice daily - interior is higher quality than the e39. Its got an early build date so pre LCI where other 2007s are LCI models. ...

Thanks for the long post on the E61. Doesn't seem all that horrible when it comes to issues wrong. If there honestly was a way to delete the adaptive headlights, iDrive, etc etc, without sending everything in to a fritz, I'd honestly do it in a heartbeat just to make things more simpler.

There was one manual E61 by me a year or so ago before I "liked" the Bangle look and I feel stupid for not jumping on it. The one bright side to Kansas City is that the snow isn't all that bad and if it is, it's for a couple months or so. The issue is just finding an E39 as it seems this area is more about E90s and E60s. Would've been nice if BMW brought over the F11!

So I suppose I'm back to being open on the E39. There's an Orient Blue over in Wichita for $5k with less miles than the E61, so it brings the option of a LS swap in the future in to play and a much cheaper operating cost.

I still wouldn't mind an E61 just from a safety standpoint for the little one I carry around. It would be nice to be able to remove any and all tech that I don't foresee using ever, but I don't see the being a possibility. Same goes for auto to manual and AWD to RWD.

I dunno if you're specifically married to the idea of an LS swap, but you can swap the E39 M5's S62 into any E39 touring with relative ease. You get 400hp from that motor in stock form, along with a nice 6-speed manual. Plus unlike an LS swap you retain all the OEM functionality, like the AC, onboard diagnostics, gauges, etc. I know of that LS swapped brown E39 touring, I followed the entire build thread for that car since day 1, and it was a long and messy road. He never did get everything working 100%, there were still some things that weren't quite right when he was selling it. That's the downside of an LS swap into a relatively new car like an E39... it's never quite right unless you spend $$$$$. Though I guess it depends on whether you want an E39 touring as a daily driver or as a project car.

Sadly I think I am Just for the familiarity of them and the reliability I've had with them in the past. If GM was kind enough to us, they should've brought over a Commodore wagon from Australia and I wouldn't even be having these thoughts lol.

But a swap wouldn't happen in the foreseeable future. Much more of a long-term goal/idea. Currently, it's reliability and drive-ability that I'm interested in, hence strictly NA i6.

I occasionally get a bug for a '09/'10 535iX 6 spd wagon.  They're fairly rare, though... and right now the only one on Autotrader right now has a rather high asking price of $25K.  The downside is it happens to be very close to me.

Last 5 series wagon we'll see  for a very long time, but I don't see it going for $25k any time soon. Think he would've included more pictures...

If you were so inclined for a '08 and a trip to Jersey, there's one being sold for $13.9k and another in Albany going for $11k.

Hell, buy both and you'll be right at $25k!

Well, I ended up buying the E61. Rode extremely well and the paint is nearly perfect.

I just need to sell my '08 Accord now.