Learn me Bumpside F100s 67-72

Backstory. Mother in Law is looking for a old truck to use for her business. She sells veggies and flowers, stuff like that. She wants the old farm truck aesthetic. Kinda like this

Obviously a little more "cuted" up

I have a line on a cheapish 68 F100 Ranger

Manual brakes/power steering/heater no AC

2WD Longbed

Body is straight little rust except for under the battery. Cab corners are perfect, floor pans look good.

Tailgate missing - seems to $$$

Floor shifter manual

Had a 360, supposed to have a 390 from a 1ton now. All i can verify with my knowledge is it is indeed an FE

Taken off the road in 99 due to a "seized clutch", clutch pedal is sheered off of pedal box. Clutch pedal repair is available and not crazy expensive if I cant weld it back together

Trim  appears to be all present and straight but off the truck

Was left with hood off and air cleaner on with no wingnut. Carb is frozen and there has been alteast a little water intrusion into engine. Has an F250 hood that comes with it

Interior is slightly disassembled, but in good shape, bench seat is soft and not torn, carpet was replaced and looks like it still has most of its color.

White truck with a white interior (black carpet though). Vin tag said it should have been red interior. At this point interior is probably to nice to redo for what they want

The thought it running and driving, convert to power brakes, probably leave the drums all around, make it reliable as possible to put to the farmers market and make a stake bed for it out of rough cut lumber and have their logo stenciled on the door and rough it up to match the patina of the truck.

They initially wanted a dodge sweptline but they are thin on the ground and parts seem sparse, dont think i can hit their budget with a sweptline

Im not a Ford guy and have just recently started paying attention to the old fords. School me on pitfalls, parts availability, things to watch for and values.

Parts are as common as houseflies.  The FE is fine, but it was never the greatest, and parts are expensiver than the next generation.  They have a rabid following.  If it's the 360 or 390, it's worth a little bit.  If it's a 427 or 428, it's worth much more.  I'm just thinking you could likely trade the FE for a good 300-6 or 302 and parts are much more common and less pricey.

Make sure she drives one FIRST.  I'm not going to lie, if she is taller than about 5'2", she's going to be hating life.  Even with the seat slid the whole way back, you're right on top of the steering wheel, and the clutch requires you to put your knee in your ear. (that's obviously an exaggeration), but these old trucks were ergonomic nightmares.  We have a 71 that we use up at camp as a farm truck, and it's just terrible.

Without power steering, the turns lock-2-lock are measured in dozens.  Keeping it straight at speeds above 45 will require constant input.  I would suggest at least front discs, otherwise they will just lock up without much input from your foot.

I'm certainly not trying to discourage you, I'm just saying that unless MIL already knows everything to expect, you're in for way more work. This is more than just add power brakes and steering, this might be a comprehensive re-engineering of multiple systems to make it something she would drive. This exact thing happened to me.  I was always buying little old gems.  I found a 73 Hornet Sportabout and my (now ex) wife fell in love with it.  She said "I would drive that every day if you bought it."  She detested it and never drove it a second time.

I used a 1968 F100 as a tow vehicle from 1994 thought to 2000.  It was 360 powered, manual trans with no power steering or power brakes and 4 wheel drums. We also had a 74 F350 for several years (2000 to 2006).

I'm not a big guy 5' 7" & 140lbs.  The biggest issue was tight parking spots; while not great I was still able to manage.

The brakes were OK; note I was only towing 2000-2400lbs. If you needed repeated stops hard stops (more than  2-3) from highway speeds they were not happy (I never faded them but they did get stinky once or twice). With the truck empty the brakes were fine but you needed to be mindful of the stopping distance. 

Steering.............it steered like one would expect an old truck to.

As for the 360 vs 390; I've had trucks with both and to me it's not enough of a difference to matter.

For what you MIL wants I'd think a 300 I-6 truck would be just fine; I'd try to find one with the features you want.  

As someone planning a hat car with one of these, I wonder if that would work better.  They are not the most enjoyable to drive for the reasons listed above

However, a car ride and modern drive train, with the appearance of an old farm truck?

They are getting more common, might be able to find one for sale already

Generally there are parts available but Ford used a lot of different parts over the years, it seems. Locating the correct one for the application can be tough. 

For example, I couldn't find just a replacement cap (NLA) for the brake master on my truck and finding the right MC was a bit difficult and I still didn't end up with exactly the right thing.

Suggestion for an old truck in general - make sure it's got PS. I know the one you're looking at has it but that's an area I wouldn't waver on especially if she's not an old car (truck) person otherwise. My wife drove my 65 C10 a total of one time solely because it had not PS and was a bear to maneuver. 

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

It already has power steering, its doesnt have power brakes. Shes pretty small, and said she doesnt mind the manual. She grew up with this type of stuff so I hope time has dulled her memory of the experience. 

Plan would be to buy it, make it run, stop, start and steer as cheapily and stock as possible, while doing a small amount of refurb and prettying it up. Turn it over to her and if she likes it, she can buy me out plus a small profit for my time, if not turn and sell it. Its a pretty clean truck and given the price its been offered to me at, I think there is meat on the bone, even if it mostly goes to E36 M3. Id want to keep the V8 for resale incase its not to her liking. The chances i can save the FE are slim. If i wasnt worried about resale, I have a rotted old ranch truck with a 300 and a C4(?) that work fine that would immediately get transplanted. My only concern is it appears around here FEs are thin on the ground and expensive.

Her use case is parking it in front of her farm as a billboard and making the 8 mile drive to the farmers market with a max speed limit of 45 mph, maybe bringing stuff home from home depot and hauling stuff around the property.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

I wouldnt do it to this one, but arent these the ones that the vic front end goes right under?

Opti said:

In reply to Mr_Asa :

I wouldnt do it to this one, but arent these the ones that the vic front end goes right under?

Oh gods no, if its a complete truck then don't do that.  You can find decent bodies for $1-2k and a crown vic for the same.

I forget which year the front end bolts to, but yeah its somewhere in this general timeframe.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Looks like a complete truck with probably a hurt motor under your decent body price

Opti said:

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Looks like a complete truck with probably a hurt motor under your decent body price

 

Depends on location.  Because of the hat car plans, I've been keeping an eye out for the past couple years, prices have been nuts till maybe 4-6 months back?  Down here that still kinda holds, but it depends on what you are looking for exactly. 

I live old cars. It is our business. From pre-war Bentleys and Rolls to 80's Ferraris. I daily drove a 63 Falcon for years. 

We bought a 67 F100 as a vintage shop truck. I HATED every moment behind the wheel of the thing. It was totally unsuited for todays traffic. After rebuilding the suspension, brakes, steering and transmission is was still one of the worst driving vehicles I have encountered.  The clutch was impossibly heavy but not quite as heavy as the brakes or steering.  It rode like an ox cart despite only being a half ton pickup. My knees still ache whenever I think about that thing.

I would say it isnt' quite feasible without a fair bit of resto-modding.  My spouse is pretty robust and she flat out refused to drive it after one attempt.

In reply to Trent :

Great sounds right in line with most of my plans

Trent said:

It was totally unsuited for todays traffic.  The clutch was impossibly heavy but not quite as heavy as the brakes or steering.  It rode like an ox cart despite only being a half ton pickup. 

This is why I liked mine.

I did a couple of 600 round trips in a day to fetch cars and thought nothing of it..............this doesn't change the fact that in comparison to more modern trucks they are indeed awful............it's like greasy food; OK now and again but not everyday. 

I owned a '65 F100 for a dozen years. Towed my race car to the track with it. Same truck as a bumpside under the skin.

Every FE is a 390 on sale day. 

The drum brakes are...okay. Disc brake spindles are a bolt-on 65-79 on the half ton. I had manual discs and they worked well, you just need to use your leg more than with a booster. An ADDCO sway bar makes a big difference in handling. 

They are simple, well built trucks. The aftermarket is pretty good. The market is only going up. I've been priced out of these, frankly. The bullnose trucks that replaced the bump/dent models are much nicer to drive but OMG do they rust. 

Best site on the web for bumpsides.

I've owned a 1966 F-100 for many years, which is pretty much the same under the skin as the later trucks.  I also have spent thousands of miles behind the wheel of the next generation Ford pickups (the internet has divided them into two groups: 1967-1972 and 1973-1979, but they are all very similar outside of yearly updates.)  I'll dispute some of the previous remarks; I'm 6-1" and I've never been uncomfortable in them.  If the suspension is up to snuff with decent bushings and shocks they ride just fine, too (note that there were several levels of heavy duty springs available as options, so that will affect the ride if you have a truck that was originally set up for heavy duty use, hauling a camper or towing.  If you do find a truck with heavy duty springs, just throw a spare engine block in the bed to smooth out the ride.  )  The foam in the seat can deteriorate over time making it hard and lumpy, but if necessary it can be replaced by any auto upholstery shop.  Like any vehicle, the newer models had improvements - if I were to choose I'd say look for 1977 or newer and you'll have a better chance of finding one with creature comforts like nicer upholstery, a/c, FM radio, etc. but there's nothing wrong with the older trucks either.  Disk brakes were standard from 1973 on but can be easily swapped into earlier trucks.  Same with power steering, if desired it's a  straightforward swap from newer trucks to older ones.  Reference websites include https://www.fordification.info for 1961-1966 trucks (note that 1964 and earlier were different animals but Ford introduced the Twin I-Beam chassis in 1965 which carried on to the newer trucks), https://www.fordification.com for 1967-1972, and https://www.fordification.net for 1973-1979.  As the years go by there are fewer and fewer of them in the salvage yards if you need used parts but they're still out there if you look.  My favorite source for new aftermarket parts is Dennis Carpenter.  https://www.dennis-carpenter.com

ddavidv said:

Every FE is a 390 on sale day.

Nearly all FE engines had number 352 cast into the side of the engine block, so the true displacement isn't necessarily obvious.  However, that's more of an issue for those who are looking for high performance.  In a truck that will be just for general runaround use it doesn't really matter which one is under the hood.

A couple more thoughts:  Besides the FE engines they also came with a 302 small block or a 300 six, which of course are good engines too  - for her purposes any of them should be fine.  Common rust areas include the rear cab corners, front cab mounts and the outside edges of the floor pans, but patch panels are available.  Good condition tailgates can be hard to find but reproductions are available.

One of the first vehicles I ever drove- it was a farm truck as well. Does she have any injury or damage to her shoulder or hips? I distinctly remember shifting to be difficult because of my position, and I was 5 foot 4 or 6 inches then.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

nope shes healthy, everytime I show up shes working on something

So I bought it. Was borderline on the deal at the initial price. Got a call later that the price had dropped considerably, and I agreed.

In its current condition, slightly cleaned up and presented better im in the money. We will see how it goes

I can see someone just driving it a few miles to the market and being happy.  That's when vehicles like that are fun.  One of my most fun experiences driving a vehicle was in an IH Metro delivery van sitting on a lawn chair, and I had a boat gas tank and the primer bulb was my fuel pump.  It was a challenge which made it fun on the 405 in rush hour between our two shops, but if I had to do it a lot I would have died.

If you want the truck you've found, I would take a hard look at prices for FE stuff.  If it's seized (likely), see about what they bring as a seized core versus what the parts bring.  I think you could sell the FE or part it out for $$$ and buy a good running I-6 or 302 for $less.  You would also have an engine that has massive aftermarket support, so you can find a 1-piece silicone oil pan gasket that doesn't hemorrhage oil, and you can have a water pump for $20, or a distributor for $50, or a manifold gasket that you can get at Auto Zone for $6 instead of $75 at CJ Pony parts.

Keep in mind that FE blocks have a different bellhousing bolt pattern than the later SBF which is different still from the BBF.  Adaptable, but likely cheaper to just get the trans you want with whatever engine you want.  You could also likely find a bellhousing for whatever you put in that bolts the trans.  They truck you're interested in most likely has a Dana T18, but could have an NP435 (usually only offered in the F150).  Either way, both transmissions were used behind FEs and SBFs, so junkyard bellhousings should be plentiful.

You could always see if the FE is salvageable, but you'll likely be into a pretty fat wallet until you get it machined and rebuilt.  Hence why I suggest it be left to the collectors who love them, or who need one for a proper matching resto.

Opti said:

So I bought it. Was borderline on the deal at the initial price. Got a call later that the price had dropped considerably, and I agreed.

In its current condition, slightly cleaned up and presented better im in the money. We will see how it goes

You snuck this in while I was typing, you ninja.

So glad you got it!  I currently have zero ford parts that I can send your way... other than 5 spark plug wires and maybe a steering wheel.  Build thread?

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Im  working under the assumption the engine is pooched, but weve saved some pretty junky stuff. Generally if we can get them broke free we can make them run. On some ranch trucks weve even hit some rusty bores with a hone and stuck them back together.

I will try real hard to save it but wont be upset if/when I cant. After looking at FE stuff local I can find a claimed 390 in running condition for about 1k. Im pretty sure i can get some machine work, if the hard parts are savable for about the same. I like the idea of a 302 and a C4 but I dont think itd save me any money, and I like the floor shifted manual.

I was looking some stuff up on RA and a engine gasket kit is only like 30 bucks missing the RMS and valve stem seals. Im aware 20 something gaskets for 30 bucks isnt setting me up for success but Ive had pretty good luck with them, and generally the bar on old stuff is pretty low. More slow it down than actually seal it up.

My dad owned those growing up and I've worked on them a bunch. I have a soft spot for them and my dream is to one day take the 4 that are sitting out on the property and make one good one.

Also the FE is a very rugged engine. My dad gad one that was way past it's due date and we still kept it going. He ran straight 50w and STP Oil Treatment in it. It burned a quart a day and showed 2 psi at highway speeds, but it never blew. We couldn't find another FE and a neighbor convinced him to swap in a 400 when I was about 10 and it never worked out.

But basically it was running glittery grease at the end.

No doubt the FE is rugged.  If you can break it free and dump some gas in it, it will probably smoke for 500 miles and then be fine.  Just depends on how much water got in it for how long.  Keep a few quarts of oil in the bed.

My thought is that you can buy a good, running 300/NP435 for $500 and have something with cheap parts for the future.  Mr_Asa probably has three of them sitting around.  But, totally your choice.  I have no problems with sending some Kroil in a spark plug hole and floating valves with a brick on the accelerator for 5 minutes to "clean up the bores."

I'm anxious to see what that FE is actually like.  You might find that it turns by hand, or it might be pretty hopeless, but I'm half tempted to fly south just to help you tear into it.