Learn me cheap e36m3box racing (lemons/chump/$20xx/etc.)

It looks like I'll be acquiring an ultra cheap (read free ) 80s german "supercar". I was thinking it would be a really fun project for the kids in my automotive technology class to build a shop race car. That brings the question, $2015, chump car, lemons? What the hell do I do with a free 32v teardrop shaped german e36m3box? I have a close friend (he's not particularly mechanically inclined) with one of these turds that I've had the "pleasure" of helping him restore it and keeping it running. So how about it hive mind….

1)Which of these series is the best fit for a short money school teacher from massachusetts to fail miserably at on virtually no budget?

2)What do I need to know about these series in terms of budgeting and playing the game?

3)What questions am I too in the dark to even ask?

4)What is wrong with me that I'm even considering this?

2015 seems to be the cheapest. Probably budget 3-4 k for the whole build plus weekend? There is even a $1008 class to save another grand.

Lemons and chump say 500$ cars but after safety equipment are much more. Then suits, helmets, gas, tires, entry fee, etc you are looking at a 5k weekend easy.

I also think 2015 is a better format for a student build, because you don't have to choose 4-6 drivers. Everyone can have more equal participation.

Finally, rules sets differ. Again 2015 looks to have the most open rules structure, and that would go well with the innovation you will see from you students and want to let them run with.

I think chumpcar also made it a lot easier now than all the AIV (average internet value) paperwork you used to have to do.

I can only speak for LeMons experience. It's awesome that the car was free. But will you have the budget to fully cage it, put tires on it, get a ton of spares for it, etc...? Like rcutclif said, you're looking at around $5k to get going if you're starting from scratch. Now that cost will be spread to your team (usually 4 people, maybe 5). Are you able to organize and manage such a team? If your 32V supercar is what I'm guessing it may be, I'd be concerned that it'll make it through the weekend of mechanical torture that a LeMons race is. If the motor tosses its' cookies, do you have a spare or can you get one easily from a salvage yard? Same for transmission, alternator, belts, etc... Not trying to discourage you, LeMons is like nothing else, I'm addicted. But it's not cheap and it's not easy.

If this is something you're planning on doing mostly yourself, maybe the Challenge is your best bet?

I'll preface this by saying that everything I know about the Challenge comes from reading about it (it's really too far from California for me to go, even though I'd like to), and I've done a total of one LeMons race.

The big difference is that the Challenge is autox, drag racing, and concours, while LeMons and ChumpCar are wheel-to-wheel endurance road racing. The safety equipment required for autox is cheap, as is drag racing at least at the power levels you're likely to be encountering to begin with. OTOH, with LeMons & Chumpcar you need a cage, harnesses, fire system (for Chump), nomex driver's suit, gloves, shoes, HANS (OK, not required, but a really good idea), etc. If you're running in the summer I'd add a cool shirt system to the list of not-mandatory-but-a-really-good-idea stuff as well.

And yes, a LeMons or ChumpCar event is 16+ hours of driving hard, whereas the Challenge is, what under 10 minutes total? Mechanical failures (not just motors, but suspension, brakes, etc) are a major concern for endurance racing. Bringing an underprepared car with a lack of spares is a recipe for spending most of the event wrenching on the car in the paddock and driving the tow vehicle all over town looking for parts rather than driving the race car on the track.

Do you have a tow rig? It's possible to street drive a Challenge car to the event, but it's really not possible to do that with a LeMons car. (Well, I'm sure some people have done it, but street driving a caged car without helmet is a significant safety concern).

The downside to the Challenge event is that, AFAIK, there's only one such event a year and it's in Florida, so if you don't live in the south it's a pretty significant travel commitment. You can always run a Challenge car in your own local autox events, but that's not really the same thing.

Don't discount oval track if there is one near you. (there usually is). My son's car was also free and it cost less than $1000.00 to put it on the track. Membership was $180.00 for the year. Chump and Lemons are really just the road course version of cheap Saturday night short course racing.

Why not autocross it. Inexpensive, I'm guessing there are events close to you, and there would several events a year to participate in. Plus it seems like it would be fairly easy to get the students in on it in their own cars. Or drag race it. Most strips have a test and tune night that you can go to and have timed runs without eliminations.

Just an FYI: COM is doing hpde/time trials at places like Loudin (New Hampshire motor speedway). I haven't drive with them yet, but this seemed like a lot of fun from the description: http://www.motorsportreg.com/events/nhms-2-hpde-time-trial-new-hampshire-motor-speedway-com-sports-car-club-910304?utm_source=apis&utm_medium=apim&utm_campaign=apic&utm_content=json#.VWNdbXD3arU

Some good ideas here….

I've done circle track to death (sprint cars, midgets and BB super modifies), I want to turn right a couple of times in my life .

Lemons and chump sound like an expensive way to turn my car into a demo derby car (sounds more fun than dd though).

I do a fair amount of autox, I'm kinda tired of it. too much standing around, not enough track time.

20xx challenge sounds like a riot but is too far away

Maybe hpde is the answer…..

So is the car for you and your enjoyment or for the class?

sesto elemento wrote: Lemons and chump sound like an expensive way to turn my car into a demo derby car (sounds more fun than dd though).

I think this is overhyped and probably keeps people away, when they really shouldn't. I've run 12 races and only had contact once...and that was when someone rear ended me. Some races tend to have more contact, but the organizers crack down hard on it. If you drive smart, you can stay out of trouble most of the time.

Klayfish wrote:

sesto elemento wrote: Lemons and chump sound like an expensive way to turn my car into a demo derby car (sounds more fun than dd though).

I think this is overhyped and probably keeps people away, when they really shouldn't. I've run 12 races and only had contact once...and that was when someone rear ended me. Some races tend to have more contact, but the organizers crack down hard on it. If you drive smart, you can stay out of trouble most of the time.

I completely agree with this, but it's still going to take $5k to get to the starting line, assuming you already own the car. It sounded like budget reasons would be the only reason to keep away from Chump/LeMons.

WonkoTheSane wrote:

Klayfish wrote:

sesto elemento wrote: Lemons and chump sound like an expensive way to turn my car into a demo derby car (sounds more fun than dd though).

I think this is overhyped and probably keeps people away, when they really shouldn't. I've run 12 races and only had contact once...and that was when someone rear ended me. Some races tend to have more contact, but the organizers crack down hard on it. If you drive smart, you can stay out of trouble most of the time.

I completely agree with this, but it's still going to take $5k to get to the starting line, assuming you already own the car. It sounded like budget reasons would be the only reason to keep away from Chump/LeMons.

Agree here as well. LeMons is NOT a demo derby by any stretch. Chump is more 'serious' than LeMons and has more contact, or so I've been told by some who have run both. On a $ per minute of seat time, LeChump is going to come out on top too.

There's ways to trim the budget; rent suits and helmets, build your own roll cage, etc. Like this: a custom built cage can easily run $2500 but if you can come up with the right bender and do it yourself the materials are under $500.

sesto elemento wrote: It looks like I'll be acquiring an ultra cheap (read free ) 80s german "supercar". I was thinking it would be a really fun project for the kids in my automotive technology class to build a shop race car. That brings the question, $2015, chump car, lemons? What the hell do I do with a free 32v teardrop shaped german e36m3box? I have a close friend (he's not particularly mechanically inclined) with one of these turds that I've had the "pleasure" of helping him restore it and keeping it running. So how about it hive mind…. 1)Which of these series is the best fit for a short money school teacher from massachusetts to fail miserably at on virtually no budget? 2)What do I need to know about these series in terms of budgeting and playing the game? 3)What questions am I too in the dark to even ask? 4)What is wrong with me that I'm even considering this?

Reading between the lines you are speaking of a Porsche 928 32v. I own one, great cars, but you will have a hell of a time keeping it out on a track. There is a very fast porsche 928 running lemons/chump, but they have spent alot of time and money to keep it out there. If I were you I would look to trade the car for something more simple. Lemons/chump is not alot of fun when you are wrenching to put a car back together before the race is over.

I've done the Challenge with students.

It's a solid family friendly event. Do not, however, expect a lot of seat time. The lure of letting the pros drive is strong, especially when you have limited runs and a need to treat the students fairly and equally.

Is the student experience about building, or driving?

The Challenge gives LOTS of freedom in building.

Your biggest expense for the Chlenge is travel, and it can become a whopper if you have a lot of students.

If driving is the experience you are looking for, consider autocross again. Look for another venue. I ran with 3 different clubs for years and had a similar dismal standing around experience. Now I am with a group that values seat time. They make a day of it, share lunch together as friends, and everyone gets 6-8 runs per day. They are also looking to triple the size of their track- which will make each run nearly 3 minutes with long straights for much higher top end speeds. Much more satisfying.

Good info guys, thanks. I'm still not feeling autox. I'm leaning towards using it for hpde, my hope is that I can fix it up and build it on a budget but nice enough to make it saleable when all is said and done. I'll know more once the car is in my care. We'll see!