Learn Me: Cheapest road racing

In reply to Greg :

This may be the coolest thing I've seen all day. Also, where do I get a Prototipo Super Leggero?

My thoughts are as a dad and i-foot-the-bill driver of racecars (not a racecar driver).

Trauma surgeon may be the way to go (or some other big buck profession) - think about number of ok and well paid race car drivers vs surgeons - the odds are not with mashing gas as a career. But follow the dream - just be sure he is ok with the potential outcomes.

Some things to think about:

What will racing look like when he is of age to be paid - some years out but what will sponsors and "partners" be looking for and how  does he start developing those skills beyond just mashing the gas (and winning).

Help him think about what the life of a pro driver might be. Does his current demeanor, interests and focus match?

Last - if you want to stand out as a future pro the money to put a best in class car has to be there. Bargain basement won't be close. There is no substitute.

Look into rentals - may get him into a car without some of the up front and infrastructure costs. Don't know if his age and potential liability (on both sides) would scare them off. See if he still likes it and shows some ability. If so, then you can throw more money at it.

    It depends on what you really want to do, if you  just want to have fun racing, do something with SCCA.  SCCA is fun club racing.

      If you want him to one day get paid to race, look at how others got started, how did most NASCAR drivers get started.  Some sort of circle track racing, they did well enough to make a little money and to move up to bigger events.

Heck of a thread resurrection- this was started exactly 7 years ago, Feb of 2012.  And then re-brought up briefly in 2014.  Now 5 years after that, someone managed to find this thread?

In reply to Greg :

That is really cool, thanks!

I guess it's update time.

Son's now 17 years old.  Sadly, due to some financial issues at the homestead (wife lost her job and took a long time to find another) his karting was put on hold and so was any kind of racing.  He's now trying to get into college and planning on a mechanical engineering degree in an attempt to stay in the racing business.  He's also honed his skills and has both an ASE certification (and working at a local brake store) and several welding certificates, with a focus on TIG welding.  If he does not go directly to a university and goes to the community college his first year, he'll be taking some machinist classes, too.

Plus, since he knows we don't have the money for racing, he's looking into doing some autocrossing while in college just to "scratch the itch".

Interestingly, one of his karting buddies just got screwed over in IndyCar (see Patricio O'Ward), which is a bit of a wake up call for him of the business he wants to get in to.

-Rob

TasdevEngineer2of3 said:

Trauma surgeon may be the way to go (or some other big buck profession)

That's the path I took. I was a good student and very passionate about medicine. Been a Gyn surgeon for some 20 years now.

Yes, you make money ... but you don't have time to pursue anything else. It's all-consuming. The lifestyle is awful: you work nights, weekends, 24-36 hour shifts, etc. etc. Anytime you want to leave for a few days, you need to make arrangements to have someone cover for you. It's one thing to ask a colleague to cover you for one night so you can attend the occasional wedding or family event ... but no one is going to cover you week after week so you can go racing.

I've found it very hard to get away for an entire 3-day weekend in the summer ... let alone a whole week. "Racing season" means squeezing in a few track days here and there when your schedule allows. I always miss the test-n-tune and practice days (can't bother with them) and also have to consider transit time to distant circuits.

In the end, if you take this route, you can only ever be a "dabbler" or hobbyist.

Not much to add other than to say I think you are an ausom DAD!!!!! 

I wish my dad had been more involved with my interest in racing when I was growing up.  

In reply to rob_lewis :

That sounds like a damn solid path he's on. Even if the opportunities never materialize in the racing biz, the world always needs more good, hands-on engineers, which should afford him the opportunity to continue pursuing racing as a hobby.  

LanEvo said:

TasdevEngineer2of3 said:

Trauma surgeon may be the way to go (or some other big buck profession)

That's the path I took. I was a good student and very passionate about medicine. Been a Gyn surgeon for some 20 years now.

Yes, you make money ... but you don't have time to pursue anything else. It's all-consuming. The lifestyle is awful: you work nights, weekends, 24-36 hour shifts, etc. etc. Anytime you want to leave for a few days, you need to make arrangements to have someone cover for you. It's one thing to ask a colleague to cover you for one night so you can attend the occasional wedding or family event ... but no one is going to cover you week after week so you can go racing.

I've found it very hard to get away for an entire 3-day weekend in the summer ... let alone a whole week. "Racing season" means squeezing in a few track days here and there when your schedule allows. I always miss the test-n-tune and practice days (can't bother with them) and also have to consider transit time to distant circuits.

In the end, if you take this route, you can only ever be a "dabbler" or hobbyist.

Nice to hear this firsthand. My parents are doctors/work in the medical field and pushed to towards that in college. I thought I could have a lucrative career and take lots of time off to play with cars instead. I knew my parents were always busy until later into their careers, I just figured I could work less and have more free time; guess that is not the case.

Now I've graduated with a BME degree, but started my first job in the auto industry. Now I'm in the heavy duty industry and still like where I am. I would have never made it in medicine.

In reply to rob_lewis :

You are asking the wrong question if professional racer is his goal. 

Not what is the cheapest, but rather what is most likely to get him a ride that leads to a professional career. 

Thought of that way you quickly realize that he doesn’t have to run a full season, only enough to impress a patron who will get him to that next step.  

Most rides are not a matter of racing skill ( that only really matters at the pro level). Rather his social skill. Can he make friends quickly? Friends willing to lend him an expensive car capable of impressing the pros? 

How to meet that sort of person?  Too expensive competing on the race track. But Club meetings? definitely. Club social events? Absolutely. Most of those require very little money, little in fact other than clean neat clothes. 

I suspect vintage events would be a good place.  The logic is older guys can afford to have cars that are mechanically reliable and attention getting. The right approach and a decent driving skill and you have a really good chance.  

If you work a few events say in registration or tech inspection you quickly find out those who really have decent equipment. Even better if it’s poorly driven.  

If the owner turns 2:30 lap times and a young guy comes in and turns time 5-10 seconds a lap quicker without hurting the car word quickly spreads and you can build a reputation being a ride mooch.  

rob_lewis said:

I guess it's update time.

Son's now 17 years old.  Sadly, due to some financial issues at the homestead (wife lost her job and took a long time to find another) his karting was put on hold and so was any kind of racing.  He's now trying to get into college and planning on a mechanical engineering degree in an attempt to stay in the racing business.  He's also honed his skills and has both an ASE certification (and working at a local brake store) and several welding certificates, with a focus on TIG welding.  If he does not go directly to a university and goes to the community college his first year, he'll be taking some machinist classes, too.

Plus, since he knows we don't have the money for racing, he's looking into doing some autocrossing while in college just to "scratch the itch".

Interestingly, one of his karting buddies just got screwed over in IndyCar (see Patricio O'Ward), which is a bit of a wake up call for him of the business he wants to get in to.

-Rob

Hey Rob,

I know it's not anywhere near professional, but there's quite a few parents & children that get to drive together in ChampCar/Lemons, if you want to get on track with your son.  Obviously only for fun, but hey, 2+ hours of wheel to wheel before you do a drivers swap and your son gets in is a great way to spend a weekend :)  Arrive and drives are plenty and cheaper than fielding your own car at first.

rob_lewis said:

Son's now 17 years old.  Sadly, due to some financial issues at the homestead (wife lost her job and took a long time to find another) his karting was put on hold and so was any kind of racing.  He's now trying to get into college and planning on a mechanical engineering degree in an attempt to stay in the racing business.  He's also honed his skills and has both an ASE certification (and working at a local brake store) and several welding certificates, with a focus on TIG welding.  If he does not go directly to a university and goes to the community college his first year, he'll be taking some machinist classes, too.

Plus, since he knows we don't have the money for racing, he's looking into doing some autocrossing while in college just to "scratch the itch".

Interestingly, one of his karting buddies just got screwed over in IndyCar (see Patricio O'Ward), which is a bit of a wake up call for him of the business he wants to get in to.

-Rob

If the school has ME, does it have an FSAE team... the skills he has already would probably make him a very valuable member of one of those teams... and graduates in ME with FSAE backgrounds sometimes matriculate into Race Engineering positions.  Not driving, but maybe enough of a toe in the water?

In reply to WonkoTheSane :

He’s still got a chance.  Hang around those vintage racers.  With mechanical skills he might trade his time for some track time.  

The vintage racers will likely make him look really good and they have even richer friends who are looking for the next hot shoe to put in their ride.  

Racing is insanely expensive in the pro divisions.   Don’t go looking where people are driving some old hack they put together for peanuts.  Make friends with or at least impress those who can afford pro racing as hobby.  

Good to hear the son might be interested in engineering school. Getting the first year or two done at a community college is a good idea - just make sure credits transfer. 

Gotta say - if that's the path he goes- make sure he is tough and tenacious. Engineering school ain't easy. You don't have to be smart - just decide you are going to do it and let nothing get in the way.

TasdevEngineer2of3 said:

Good to hear the son might be interested in engineering school. Getting the first year or two done at a community college is a good idea - just make sure credits transfer. 

Gotta say - if that's the path he goes- make sure he is tough and tenacious. Engineering school ain't easy. You don't have to be smart - just decide you are going to do it and let nothing get in the way.

That's how I got through.  Although, having an engineering 'hands on project' similar to FSAE was a big help in that... practical application of the theoretical greek pea soup helped in sync for me.

In reply to MINIzguy :

For a variety of reasons that I don’t want to get into (would clutter up this thread) you really can’t make Medicine work as a part-time gig. Especially in the more competitive, higher-paid, surgical fields you pretty much have to go all-in.

I’m really passionate about music (bass player) and motorsports. I used to also be active as a competitive shooter. Haven’t met anyone in Medicine who was able to maintain these kinds of passions while working as a full-time academic physician. 

Don't screw around with the training program, easing into racing just means you spend big bucks many times over.

Go straight to EM.

sleepyhead said:

rob_lewis said:

Son's now 17 years old.  Sadly, due to some financial issues at the homestead (wife lost her job and took a long time to find another) his karting was put on hold and so was any kind of racing.  He's now trying to get into college and planning on a mechanical engineering degree in an attempt to stay in the racing business.  He's also honed his skills and has both an ASE certification (and working at a local brake store) and several welding certificates, with a focus on TIG welding.  If he does not go directly to a university and goes to the community college his first year, he'll be taking some machinist classes, too.

Plus, since he knows we don't have the money for racing, he's looking into doing some autocrossing while in college just to "scratch the itch".

Interestingly, one of his karting buddies just got screwed over in IndyCar (see Patricio O'Ward), which is a bit of a wake up call for him of the business he wants to get in to.

-Rob

If the school has ME, does it have an FSAE team... the skills he has already would probably make him a very valuable member of one of those teams... and graduates in ME with FSAE backgrounds sometimes matriculate into Race Engineering positions.  Not driving, but maybe enough of a toe in the water?

When my son was young I bought a cheap 3.5 hp go kart for him.  I took him Saturday's to the school parking lot and set up different track configurations for him. He would spend all day trying to improve his times. 

When he was 10 we started outlaw kart racing. He was very successful.  Then we went to 500cc dirt sprint carts and was successful there. 

A gentleman that saw him race offered him a ride in 600cc dirt sprints. At age 15 he won 3 championships in it. 

He got offered a ride in a full size sprint.  He took it but while gone on vacation the owners drug addicted son sold all of his racing cars, tools , and trailer.  

Weve never had a lot of money but we bought a $5000 asphalt late model to race in the north east.  My son was very competitive while competing against $50,000 cars and professional crews. He even won a race. 

Then I had 2 heart attacks and couldn't work on the car.  My son helped run my business while I recovered.  He was offered a ride in a similar car. He started last in the biggest race of the year at a track in NH and finished second. Unfortunately we had a falling out with one of the owners and we parted ways. 

Then we purchased a $5000 northeast dirt modified. We ran it one season, spending most of the time sorting out problems.  While we didn't win he passed the most cars in most races.  

I've continued to have health issues and can't really maintain a race car. We're not racing at this time.   My son wants to be in racing full time and is currently a JR at Clarkson.  He's a Mechanical engineering student and is on the FASE team. His goal is to make a career in racing. 

Not much to add but here it goes. 

Your son is in the right field. He can get a job in racing and may still get a ride. A guy I know from Australia is doing that way with GMS racing (NASCAR team).

The Vintage idea is brilliant. To paraphase another poster, Money Talks, Bullshirt Walks.

If your son wants to race open wheel, The Mazda road to Indy is the best choice by far, just get some monies to race.

Last but not least, Anybody can become wealthy in the USA. Maybe the Son take some Business, Marketing, and Finance classes. Maybe get a foot in the door with said Rich Vintage Folks?