Learn me: e46 m3

Specifically, how does it compare to the e36 m3 as a DIY weekend and DE car?

I was pretty much set on an e36 m3 as my next fun car, but it seems like I'd have to spend $9000 for a good example of a 5 speed coupe. Meanwhile, prices of e46 m3's have declined to the point where $15k buys me a good 6mt coupe.

How do the two compare? Is the e46 worth the price premium? I'm new to DE events and performance driving, and I'm looking for a car that I can learn on and maintain/upgrade for a long time. Thanks!

You'll find many more fans of the e36 than e46 here.

Well, we just happened to add an E46-chassis M3 to the fleet. Look for updates in the near future--first work on the car will happen soon.

It is amazing how much an E36-anything feels like crap to drive in a squeaks/rattles/fit-and-finish way compared to an E46 of similar mileage. The interior plastics hold up a LOT better, and the chassis seems to be stiffer which also cuts down on interior problems.

This may seem mundane, but I've found that anything with a noisy interior feels like a cheap POS. And cheap POSes aren't very fun to live with.

I have heard that the maintenance on the engines in the e46 m3 can be a little more expensive. It is a much better car as a toy there are arguments for both.

You can also go the 330i or even 330zhp route for a great dual duty car

The E46 looks and sounds so much better than any E36 that I have seen. It also bugs me that we got the world's neutered E36. If I was cross-shopping the two, I wouldn't even look at the E36.

To me, one of the negatives of a E46 for track duty would be consumables - mainly brakes and tires, which will be a bit more expensive than the lighter E36. Tires will also be a bit more, being 19" vs. 17".

I'm also in the "if you can't afford to lose it, you can't afford to track it" camp, so I'd be more comfortable balling up a sub-$10K E36 than a >$15K E46.

Why not both? You could buy the e36 for track duty, then with the remaining cash buy a 330i for a DD. I've been seeing them creep down to the 5-6k mark for some very decent examples lately.

In reply to penultimeta:

It's crazy, isn't it? I was looking for a Corolla XRS and those tend to run $2-3k more than a decent 330i.

I made a thread about this awhile ago.

A bit of research and I believe having the rod bearings replaced is approx 9 hours book time + about 700 in parts.

In reply to Knurled:

I'm really impressed with the acceleration through 1st & 2nd in the beater 330i I just picked up - especially with 209kmi on it. I'll try to post a vid sometime.

Changing the rod bearings and reinforcing the rear subframe mounting locations in trunk floor are prerequisites for a trackday E46. If you can find one that is already a track car and has documentation of all of this prep, you're money ahead.

I've had both. Currently my track car is my 2nd E36 M3. The E46 is a great car, nice motor, distinctive body work, good performance.

What kept me from getting one is that for a track car, it has needs. You need to do the rod bearings, reinforce the rear floor, rebuild the vanos and get a front big brake kit. Consumables are more expensive but you can run far larger rubber.

What really got me was the body work. While the distinctive body work looks cool, if there's a track incident, finding that body work is much harder and more expensive than an E36, which uses regular 3 series body work. I can find an E36 fender used, in the color I need, easily and cheaply....

I've been in this same boat. I'm currently shopping for an E36 M3. Parts are probably the cheapest of any BMW for them. They are very well supported in the aftermarket. They are lighter, simpler, and therefore easier to work on in most cases.

My car would be seeing a lot of track time tho, so I don't necessarily want something super pristine. I'm also pretty tolerant of obnoxious dailys. Stiff ride, noisy exhaust, interior noise? These things dont bother me.

If you were looking more on the DD side than the track side, E46 M3 starts to look more tempting.

BTW, I prefer the sound of the E36 M3 to the E46 M3. Most E46s I've heard just sound so buzzy and raspy. Also, if we did get the Euro spec M3, I'm not sure I would spring for it. You would be paying E46 M3 money for it, but it retains all the E36 interior problems and electrical gremlins. The S50/52, being just a hotrodded M50/52, is nice and simple, and delivers sufficient power for what it is. I love it, personally.

Knurled wrote: It is amazing how much an E36-anything feels like crap to drive in a squeaks/rattles/fit-and-finish way compared to an E46 of similar mileage. The interior plastics hold up a LOT better, and the chassis seems to be stiffer which also cuts down on interior problems. This may seem mundane, but I've found that anything with a noisy interior feels like a cheap POS. And cheap POSes aren't very fun to live with.

I agree actually, bizarrely my Skyline has no rattles what so ever despite being E30 age. The two E36 I looked at were rattle traps.

I had an e36, and indeed had some lame problems like dropped headliner, dead gauge cluster, factory alarm issues preventing starting. The interior was fine but a little chintzy. I'd probably look for an already modified e46 that's had the problems fixed if it were me. E36 golden age was ~5 years ago when prices hit the bottom and they weren't as old.

Eh, the headliner dropping affects lots of old cars. That doesn't really bug me. I don't have rattles on mine, as long as the pavement is relatively smooth.

After that my track oriented suspension is far more to blame for noises than the build quality of the car...

I've always had Porsches. Just picked up an E46 M3 SMG - love it. SMG is kind of jerky around town (never use automatic mode, the shift logic is pretty dumb) but driven in anger it is outrageous.

I've driven a lot of the manual transmission E46 M3s and they never did it for me - something about the SMG banging off shifts in eyeblinks is riotously fun. Plus, launch control.

The best part about it though? After years of cramming kids in the back or simply not taking my kids, the whole family fits in the M3. When given a choice of cars (we have 6) both kids always choose the M.

I don't think the interior will be a deal breaker for me. This car won't be a DD, and I've dealt with rough interiors and sagging headliners in my urs6. The e46 m3 has always been a bucket list car for me, but it's starting to sound like the e36 is better for what I want to do. How do they compare as far as the driving experience goes? I've heard the e46 feels slightly more disconnected due to the increased weight.

I've had both and enjoyed both. Some of the decision would come down to personal preference. With both models, there are LOTS of dual purpose cars out there for sale. Lots of good forums to go shopping in too.

For example, this e36 M3 seems like a ready-to-go option for what you want to do.

A fellow GRMer is selling this one: e36 M3

I loved my E46 a lot. The SMG is the entire reason I bought the car. 6spd ones never remotely excited me. If the manual was the only option, I would have gotten a 996 instead. (I actually got my 996 after I sold my E46...)

I loved it. It was unreasonably fast, stock. I got in super early on the AFE intake/Borla exhaust combo special right after Borla. Those were my only mods. These don't really need much out of the box to go incredibly fast around a racetrack. Intake, exhaust (and these were really for the sound, I don't know whether they actually helped performance-wise), brake pads, tires, harnesses. That's it. Full interior, stock suspension, and I ran 1:19s at Blackhawk, low 1:30s at Gingerman, low 2:40s at Road America. I don't have my old log book in front of me, sorry I don't have exact times.

Glowing rotors at turn 1 at Gingerman:

Consumables are a bitch. Running 8/10 or more, I could toast two sets of front brake pads in one day. A set of front R-compound tires would last 2 days max. Street tires, front and rear, wouldn't last a whole day.

My VANOS did go out and I was without the car for a month-ish, but every time they replaced rod bearings, mine were perfect. I had an issue with the pinch sensor on the driver window. Otherwise, no mechanical problems in two and a half years and 70 or so track days. Once I started taking the E46 to the track, I sold my E30 M3 within a few weeks. It was that much better, faster, more fun than the E30.

If it was cheaper to run, I might even still have it, but every track day was hundreds of dollars in consumables.

Lots of good information above. I would also add, they track-drive fast differently, due to weight differences and variations in the way they understeer and oversteer. I track heavy BMWs and light BMWs, and I'm a fan of the light as a result of the experience. But that's just me.

Also my BMW-driving instructors keep claiming students learn faster on E36 and earlier chassis, but what do I know, I'm not an instructor.

Lugnut wrote: Once I started taking the E46 to the track, I sold my E30 M3 within a few weeks. It was that much better, faster, more fun than the E30. If it was cheaper to run, I might even still have it, but every track day was hundreds of dollars in consumables.

You had an E30 M3 and you SOLD it!?! Was that before the value boom or after?

Desmond wrote: You had an E30 M3 and you SOLD it!?! Was that before the value boom or after?

I too had an e30 M3. Sold it in 2003, long before the price boom. Sold for $12k with 105k miles and in good to very good condition.