oldopelguy wrote:
Up in the frozen north you can sometimes get a v-nose enclosed trailer where one side of the front folds down so snowmobiles can drive straight through. It's a really nice feature for being able to roll a pit bike or toolbox in and out while the car is loaded, and it's life-changing for getting to front tie downs or a winch.
Well, one advantage to the 24 footer that SVreX cautions against is that there's plenty of room in the front to get to the tiedowns and winch through the side door. There's about 5 feet between the bumper and the workbench at the front of the trailer in this shot.
(sorry about having my thumb in the shot -- it was late when I was loading the car and I was tired).
Now, I'm using a 3/4 Chevy diesel as a tow vehicle, but I don't think 24 foot is particularly hard to tow. It's heavy, yes, but I don't find the length itself to be that much more of a challenge over the 16 foot open trailer I used to have. The biggest issue is that with the relatively low deck it has a terrible departure angle, and so it scrapes going up and down my (moderately steep) driveway.
Rodan
Reader
8/12/17 8:38 a.m.
I also don't have any issues towing the 24. You just have to be aware of how much trailer is back there. Our rig with the camper on, and pulling the trailer is 50ft. This does sometimes limit gas station access. On the road, we usually just use truck stops for fuel, but we're diesel and the big pumps run faster anyway.
Also agree on the room in front and back for access to tiedowns. Even with my bike loaded, I have lots of room to deal with tiedowns.
SVreX
MegaDork
8/12/17 9:03 a.m.
With all due respect, I think you guys missed something.
He said "first trailer" and "Miata". And he didn't say what his tow rig is.
I have logged over a half million miles towing. I have no problem towing a 24. But I wouldn't recommend it as a first trailer. It is harder to tow than a 20.
Anyone who has towed a 50' trailer with a diesel has no problem towing a 24. That's not really what he is asking.
Honestly, (as Keith has suggested), a 16' may be just the ticket.
Sorry, I should have stated that my tow rig is a Chevy 3/4 long bed turbo diesel.. I've got a few thousand miles logged towing trailers around, mostly open but a some 24' enclosed. I like the discussion and focus on safety, so I didn't want to bring this up too early :)
A 24' doesn't intimidate me at all, but I do appreciate the concern. I like the point about hill access with them, though, my driveway has a slight grade.
I do think that a 20 would be fine, but it would be cool to winter over the Rx-8 in there as well. I also have tons of room to store and manuever it here.
I would like to be able to sleep in the trailer ahead of the car on case it's raining or something at the track.
Rodan
Reader
8/12/17 9:19 a.m.
When I've owned smaller trailers in the past, I often wanted more trailer. I haven't had that thought once with the 24.
I've had various trailers over the years. I settled into the wide 24' size because it suited the variety of vehicles I haul AND it's one of the easiest sizes to sell used. As has been noted above, enclosed trailers hold their value pretty well. So I decided to use that as an advantage and figured out a way to own a trailer (or several) cheap or free, other than the initial investment. I had more than one for many years but been downsizing with age and only have one now.
I talked to new trailer dealers listed on Racing Junk about buying from them and eliminating the delivery fee which can be fairly expensive in comparison to the cost of the trailer by picking the trailer up at the factory myself. Trailer sales guy thinks easy transaction so gives a good price. I'd do the transaction ahead of time and then pick up the trailer while traveling through the area (GA for me). I'd buy the cheapest entry level 24' wide beaver tail with two spare wheels with tires and a wide side door. I'd purchase at the beginning of the model year so say now I'd want to be sure it would get titled as a 2018 and wait if necessary to get that 2018 number. I would only use the trailer for a year and I would not do any upgrades or modifications other than bearing buddies, just use it for one year.
When it got time for the next year models to become available I'd sell the current one listing it for a little more than it had cost me initially knowing people shopping new/used trailers would be getting quoted with the big delivery fee on new. The guys selling higher quality used ones with kitchen sinks, parts washers, and other accessories are priced well above what I'd be asking for my current year used one and theirs look old. Since the trailer would still be the current year and look pretty much new they sell quickly and typically 100% ROI. By getting rid of the trailer the first year I didn't have to deal with the eventual roof leaks, worn tires, bearings, brake battery, etc. in fact some I never even washed. So by flipping at the end of the current model year I didn't spend any time or money on maintenance and got all or almost all of the money I'd spent initially.
Once you get up to 24' I found the wheelbase and weight of the tow vehicle has a lot to do with stability, control etc. Longer the better regardless of brand and whether it's gas or diesel. Four door pick up 8' bed duallys are my favorite.
I prefer torsion over leaf springs as they seem to ride smoother to me but either works. No fancy rolling man cave (which are nice if you can afford them) but gets the job done.
[URL=http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Sebring%2009/Sebring620-21030.jpg.html][/URL]
Great idea, Not a TA!
Any idea where there's trailer manufacturers up here in New England? I don't get down you the South much, and it looks like most of them are based out of GA from what I can see.
SVreX
MegaDork
8/12/17 10:47 a.m.
In reply to WonkoTheSane:
Hang on...
Are you thinking a Miata and an RX8 will fit in a 24 at the same time? They won't.
Either one will fit in a 20 by itself. Heck, either one will fit in a 16.
Keith has a 28 that he fits 2 cars in, not a 24.
SVreX
MegaDork
8/12/17 10:56 a.m.
In reply to WonkoTheSane:
Union labor and snow limit trailer manufacturing in New England.
It's a GA commodity.
And the problem with a 24' is that the haulers can't haul more than 1 at a time, so the transport is expensive.
SVreX wrote:
In reply to WonkoTheSane:
Hang on...
Are you thinking a Miata and an RX8 will fit in a 24 at the same time? They won't.
Either one will fit in a 20 by itself. Heck, either one will fit in a 16.
Keith has a 28 that he fits 2 cars in, not a 24.
I was, because I had read elsewhere that people were during two Miatas in a 24.. I just measured, though, and you are correct, they would fit in a 28.. but that just seems annoying to haul around :)
WonkoTheSane wrote:
SVreX wrote:
In reply to WonkoTheSane:
Hang on...
Are you thinking a Miata and an RX8 will fit in a 24 at the same time? They won't.
Either one will fit in a 20 by itself. Heck, either one will fit in a 16.
Keith has a 28 that he fits 2 cars in, not a 24.
I was, because I had read elsewhere that people were during two Miatas in a 24.. I just measured, though, and you are correct, they would fit in a 28.. but that just seems annoying to haul around :)
Yeah, the only way you're getting two Miatas in a 24 is if you take the bumpers off. Or it's a stacker. :)
We use a pointy nose 28' double axle for two Miatas. It's as big as it needs to be, no bigger. No real room for extras. Tows well with my 2500 short bed. I like it, but the whole rig is 50' long so that has to be kept in mind.
The 24' is not as happy a trailer. It's usually towed by a current Tundra and the rig is definitely less stable. It's good for going to shows because it can carry all the extra gear. It feels considerably smaller than the 28' both inside and out. It's a good one car race trailer, we used to have workbenches in there. But unless you have to carry extra stuff, it's got the downsides of maneuvering a bigger trailer without any benefits.
The 16' is just big enough for a Miata. They're 13'3", so a 14' would be tough to tie down unless you had a pointy nose (the term is not coming to mind!). It's an easy tow and easy to manouver in gas stations and parking lots. It's what I used to go to Targa in 2008, riding behind a first gen Tundra.
Timely thread as I'm also looking for an enclosed trailer for the Formula car.
This may be a silly question to the experienced traileristi, but how are these things measured? IOW, is the advertised measurement the size of the box/enclosure, or the total size of the trailer?
Rodan
Reader
8/13/17 12:30 p.m.
Normally by the size of the box.
SVreX
MegaDork
8/13/17 1:22 p.m.
In reply to BoxheadTim:
It's the size of the box, not the tongue.
If it's a V-nose, it doesn't include the V. Just the square part of stage box.
Careful buying used units. Sometimes sellers will change the rules and give you the overall length including the tongue.
imgon
Reader
8/13/17 1:36 p.m.
I just bought a used 8.5' x 20' over the winter for my RX7 and had been searching for months for what I thought was a reasonably priced one with no luck. I thought a 24' would be too much for me but now regret not getting a 24. The one thing I think I did right was to get the 10k rated axles, most 20' are 7k rated and after the car is loaded you will get up to the weight limit pretty quickly with some tools and spares. The 20'is just big enough for my car (14') and a little storage. I had to put new tie downs in because the car is too long for where the existing ones were. Even though I thought I did a fairly good pre purchase inspection I found quite a few things I missed and was doing repairs within weeks of purchase. I would recommend a 24' with 10k rating and new. Much easier to find than 20'. I could have bought a decent brand new 24' for $1500 more that the year old 20' I ended up with. If you do go used don't get one that was used for commercial work. Mine was a year old and had been a landscaper's, I thought where it was a "tool" they would take care of it. Instead I think it was beat on plus it was used every day and as such stressed alot of the components; bearings, rear door, brakes, etc. If buying used try for something used by other car people, they likely took reasonably good care of it and it was probably used infrequently. The resale market for these is great so you should be able to use it and still get most of your money back if you need to sell. Buy the nicest you can afford and modify with DIY stuff to outfit it for your taste.
Good point on the axle rating. The heavier duty axles also come with heavier duty wheels/tires, which will be more durable regardless of load. Trailer tires tend to fail pretty often.
Basil Exposition wrote:
Good point on the axle rating. The heavier duty axles also come with heavier duty wheels/tires, which will be more durable regardless of load. Trailer tires tend to fail pretty often.
This. IMO, get a trailer with enough tire clearance to run a 225/75R16, 215/85R16 or 235/85R16. If the LT tires in that size have a high enough weight rating for your needs, use those instead of trailer tires as it's easier to find good quality ones.
I bought a nice 26' used. It was a Wells Cargo that had previously been a Brickman landscaping trailer. They have them custom made with twin torsion 5200# axles, LEDs, and hardwood floors.
It was used hard, but started life really beefy and nothing was wrong with it. I think I paid $2000 for it.
car39
HalfDork
8/14/17 8:24 a.m.
I bought a used 24 foot off of craigslist for too much, but it was less than 6 months old. Had a left side door, which was valuable to me, made getting in and out of my Miata easier for my 50+ year old overweight frame. Painted the interior, purchased a diamond plate look alike floor mat from Costco, added a counter and cabinets, and went to town. Towed pretty easy, but I had a good load leveler weight distribution hitch, and a F250 tow vehicle. It was a challenge to back up, so I mounted a camera on the roof. Sold it to a good friend for too cheap, but it went to a good home, and he needed it, and I needed to get rid of it.
I will go on record here (not derailing) as strongly recommending NOT using vehicle tires on a trailer.
Trailer tires are designed to hold way more weight without deflection. Trailer tires are purpose built with more sidewall stiffness which does two things: Allows more air pressure without explosion, and very much firms up the sway. They are designed for use with trailers. Vehicle tires are designed for vehicles.
Vehicles need to conform with passengers; ride comfort, noise, traction, torque application, etc. Trailer tires are vastly superior on a trailer compared to passenger vehicle tires.
Also remember this: A vehicle tire is rated for intermittent max weight. If you put E-range LT tires on a trailer and expect them to take constant heavy weight, you will be very mistaken. A trailer tire is rated for that max weight expecting it to be at that weight nearly all the time. A vehicle tire rated to carry 2000 lbs will last for its expected life because on a vehicle the tire only ever sees max weight once in a blue moon. A trailer tire rated to carry 2000 lbs is engineered to carry that weight all the time. Massive difference.
I decided to skimp and use a used E-rated truck tire as the spare for my 9800-gvw travel trailer once. The first time I had to use it, it lasted about 20 miles. Even at 80 psi it looked like it was flat. The deflection caused heat, and boom.
Trailer tires are for trailers. Vehicle tires are for vehicles. Add in the fact that trailer tires are usually cheaper, and I just can't understand the reasoning behind spending more money for a worse choice.
In reply to curtis73:
The big thing to watch for is that an ST tire is typically rated for more weight in a given size than an LT. And P tires are totally un-suitable for trailers (officially, you can do it if you de-rate their weight capacity, but they'll always be too mushy to tow well). But if you're only putting 2000 lbs on a tire with the trailer fully loaded, an LT rated for 2600 lbs will do the job just fine.
If your LTs looked flat at max pressure on a trailer, that means they had too much weight on them, plain and simple. A similarly over-loaded trailer tire would have failed exactly the same way.
The other big thing is that most ST tires are only rated to 65 mph. So if running LTs is an option, you can get a higher speed rating that way.
Tirerack has a tech article on this. In the article, they specifically indicate that LT tires on a trailer is perfectly fine: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=219
curtis73 wrote:
Trailer tires are for trailers. Vehicle tires are for vehicles. Add in the fact that trailer tires are usually cheaper, and I just can't understand the reasoning behind spending more money for a worse choice.
The usual reasoning is that most trailer tires are E36 M3. Even more so than normal tires, all anybody cares about on trailer tires is price, and that means the competition is a race to the bottom.
That said, I went with trailer tires on mine when I replaced them recently. I did add a trailer TPMS though, so that I can keep tabs on what's going on with them from the truck.
Not related to tires, but I just learned an interesting tidbit for those who want to use Not A TA's method of trailer ownership: Haul Mark (aka Wells Cargo) has a factory in Hazleton, PA.
Bravo (who used to be Pace) has their factory somewhere in Indiana.
The trailer sales guy said that the new owners of Pace are driving it into the ground quality-wise, I have no way to verify this info. Apparently the guy who sold Pace got back into business under the Bravo brand.
There's also ProLine aluminum trailers in Milton, NH 03851. I like these guys because they have pricing right out there on their website: http://www.nhtrailers.com/index.htm