"Learn me" FRS/BRZ/86

GameboyRMH said:

 The oiling issues aren't a 2013-2016 model problem, they're a boxer engine problem.

Except that Imprezas and everything else with the same type of engine don't have oiling issues, other than not being too happy about being run with no oil in the engine.

The FRS seems to develop oiling issues when a Toyota dealer has the cylinder heads apart.  There are oil passages that can be blocked with careless assembly.  A cynic in me thinks it is intentional, institutional sabotage, as there are lots of Toyota dealer parts-hangers who refuse to work on badge-engineered models like the Supra or iA.  It's alien to them and they want nothing to do with them...

ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) said:

I realize that my case is just one data point, but I feel like the issues sometimes get overblown. I've owned my late-2013 FR-S since new and it has been completely reliable. I didn't get a recall notice, haven't had the recall work done, haven't had any oiling issues, haven't had any oil temp issues on track, and the sky hasn't fallen! 
 

It is probably worth mentioning that I try to keep on top of oil changes and maintenance, I don't  accumulate tons of miles compared to many, and my track time has been with the car bone-stock, or bone-stock on slightly stickier street rubber in stock tire size. If you jam massive stickiest tires under there, upgrade the brakes, and hop up the engine with a stock oiling system before heading to the track, YMMV.

 

This has been my experience as well. Bought it at 47k, just crested the 100k mark last week. TOB failed at around 85k, but other than that it's just been oil and filters. Four season DD, no track or auto x usage, and bone stock other than Bilsteins. 

Again, YMMV, but they're nowhere near exotic-level maintenance queens. The common problems are either avoidable (valve spring recall,) common prep for nearly any track car (oiling,) or a one-and-done solution (throw out bearing.) Easy to work on too, aside from boxer packaging quirks.

In reply to Furious_E (Forum Supporter) :

As the current owner of two of them, I would generally agree with this.

But also, a statement about Subarus in general- in my opinion, the magic of them is that they're decent cars made out of cheap parts that are easy to assemble.  Maybe not Toyota reliable, but people like most of us here on GRM can very easily buy them with some stuff wrong, fix it inexpensively and quickly, and have a pretty good vehicle for not a huge amount of money.  YMMV but that's what I like about Subarus and Toyobarus.

It's too bad that they didn't make a car with tons of torque, a capable and lively chassis, a practical body style, and a 6-speed manual that would be an ideal upgrade to a Mini.

Oh wait...

OK, not exactly a cross-shop for a 2-door coupe or convertible. What I can tell you about the BRZ is that a FiST will stomp them stock vs stock. Add shocks and tires to a twin, however, and the situation is quickly reversed. The FiST will still have way more power and torque, but you cannot overcome the inherent benefits of a low-slung RWD coupe over a tall 4-door hatch.  I can't speak to reliability, but I know that I have run against some twins that were super fast around an autocross course. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

GameboyRMH said:

 The oiling issues aren't a 2013-2016 model problem, they're a boxer engine problem.

Except that Imprezas and everything else with the same type of engine don't have oiling issues, other than not being too happy about being run with no oil in the engine.

The non-Toyobaru Subie boxers don't seem to have it as bad but they do get oil starvation easier than most engines, there's a reason for all the STI oil pan swapping and aftermarket pan & pickup options for those engines. In an inline or V engine you can think of the sides of the block as kind of a 2nd-line oil baffle keeping the oil from escaping the pan area completely, while in a boxer engine, once the oil sloshes over the pan gasket it can get away for a day trip over to the head area until the car stops cornering.

In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :

I've been contemplating a FiST, too, but sometimes I lean toward a coupe of some nature. The choices amongst RWD stuff is pretty slim these days, unfortunately. To add to what I'm looking for, I use the MINI as a two door coupe now. It's had a plywood load floor covering the rear seat up for over a decade. The last person to sit in the rear was the salesman who sold it to me. So, I don't need a rear seat, it's just an unused extra feature. When I travel anywhere without my wife I take the MINI because it's a comfortable car for me and it's a fun car obviously. A Fist, a newer MINI, one of the twins or a ND RF would all work, except for the golf and hockey bags in some cases, and I own a GMC Canyon for those instances if necessary. I just haven't been able to make up my mind. I've even considered finding a low mileage R53 MINI and doing a fly-n-drive. I do like the car after 14 years of ownership. As for Subarus having some issues, I did  buy an R53 knowing they had some significant design flaws, too.

How about going up a size and picking up an Infiniti G37? It'll have an extra 10 MPH of trap speed, burn about 20% more fuel, and be similarly rewarding on twisty roads. 

In reply to chaparral

I've always been a small car guy and I've had at least one in the fleet ever since my university days back in the 70s. The G37 is outside my size range, although it certainly seems to offer value for money.

The rear seats in the Twins do fold flat, FYI. 

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to chaparral

I've always been a small car guy and I've had at least one in the fleet ever since my university days back in the 70s. The G37 is outside my size range, although it certainly seems to offer value for money.

The Nissan 370z having no back seat is probably still too large?  

How about a Fiat 500 Abarth?  I can understand the fear of Fiat reliability but people here have reported good experiences.  If not autox-ing and just commuting, I gotta believe that Fiat 500 plain jane models but with manual trans are super slow seller and slow sales should mean cheap sales.  You have skills.  You could become an expert in Fiat 500s and have many to choose from that just need minor repairs.  

Here's a quick find of a non-Abarth.  Dealer asking $4k but notice few leaves on the trees in the pics.  The car is also wearing studable winter tires.  This car was traded in somewhere in MI a number of months ago.  This will be real slow to sell.  A private party sale could be even cheaper.  

I recently removed the rear seats in my FiST. I've ordered some stuff for the rear floor. I was a little worried it might have some minor negative handling consequences. I might be mistaken, but it feels like it turns in even quicker now.

For a street car weight doesn't matter as much, but it does contribute to the car's nimbleness. Mine started ~2730lbs -32lbs lighter wheels -40lbs spare tire -70lbs rear seats = ~2590lbs

Another plus for the FiST is it can run happily on 87 octane. You lose 8hp, but in my area it reduces fuel costs 25%.

I always had a RWD coupe prior, never thought I'd own anything else and I'm very happy with this car.

In reply to John Welsh :

One of my sons owns a Fiat 500 Pop and it's zippy little thing, even with the automatic. I think an Abarth would be a lot of fun. The only downside is I don't find the car nearly as comfortable as the MINI on longer drives, and I'd like something that would be nice to drive when I decide I need a week of vacation in Montreal, 600+ miles away. I really need to get out and test drive the suggested cars and see which ones "float my boat".

Edit: I'll bet that one you posted is for a "Buy here, pay here" dealer who would have zero interest in selling to someone who actually has a credit rating.

Edit 2: Same car and dealer, now it has a miss........Marketplace - 2013 [hidden information]37551 500 Turbo Hatchback 2D | Facebook and it might not be the type of dealer I initially suspected. Might be worth an inquiry at that price.

In reply to Snrub :

I run 93 octane in the MINI and it doesn't get great gas mileage, so the cost per mile for fuel on it isn't much different from my GMC Canyon crew cab, which runs 87.

Other cars that hit the radar, but are more of a larger GT to me, are the Nissan Z-cars, the Infiniti coupes and the Genesis coupes.  I think my problem is I just don't know what I really want.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

Most likely, the dealer would send this car off to auction rather than invest in a fix.  Notice he hasn't made any investment into putting on more appropriate tires either.   I recommend to come at him with wholesale pricing and quick cash to solve his problem on inventory he can't move.  

EDIT: I googled the Vin and came up with this old listing from 2019.  Would you like to talk to the previous owner in Vermont?  

This car got a lot of miles in a short time.  That listing says 48k miles so in 20 months it has added 40k miles but I'll bet it hasn't added many miles in the past 3 months so more like 40k in 17 months. 

In reply to John Welsh :

What are you seeing that suggests he can't move it? The ads are one and two weeks old.

In reply to John Welsh :

The 370Z has a 100" wheelbase, which is getting into too-long-to-be-fun territory.  Track width is over half a foot wider than a Miata, too, and it's all outside the cabin.

370z and BRZ/frs/86 have the same wheelbase. 3" longer than the mini.

I'd say the bigger difference is the sensation of speed in street driving. 370z is a more capable machine, with less sensation.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

I'm in the same climate as you and my feeling is that there were more leaves on the trees 2 weeks ago than there are shown in this picture:

But then, in this picture I think the screen is showing 71 degrees outside (unless that gauge shows inside temp setting.)  However, there were more warm days in April than there has been in May.  So, not that old, maybe two weeks, maybe a little longer.  

Also slow to sell is just the general idea that a 2 door, manual trans car will be slow to sell.  

In reply to Snrub :

I didn't mean to suggest that the frisbees were all that great, either   But that is an interesting observation, that the 370z seems like a much larger car.

Surprised nobody has suggested the fix for the FRS-BRZ. Get a '13 that has a bad motor. K24 swap it. It's a great chassis that deserves more power.  
I wish Toyota & Honda would team up. Don't think they ever have yet.

John Welsh said:

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

But then, in this picture I think the screen is showing 71 degrees outside (unless that gauge shows inside temp setting.)   

FYI mine would show a higher temp after sitting in the sun at work, and drop 5-10F or so within 5 minutes of driving.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to Snrub :

I didn't mean to suggest that the frisbees were all that great, either   But that is an interesting observation, that the 370z seems like a much larger car.

In many ways it the 370 is a larger car.  I owned both at the same time (briefly), and the 370 has more interior room and is wider.  It is also much faster.  The BRZ had nicer steering and being lighter you could toss it around more, but that aside, the 370 was the better car. 

Civic SI?

In reply to dxman92 :

Another one that I've searched for. The styling of the newer ones is bit overdone, but you can't see it from the inside.