Flight Service wrote: Which part of the aero did you do? (please say the stickers....)
Flatbottom and some ducting that ran through the trunk and dumped out over the rear bumper - trying to fill the wake and cut drag.
Flight Service wrote: Which part of the aero did you do? (please say the stickers....)
Flatbottom and some ducting that ran through the trunk and dumped out over the rear bumper - trying to fill the wake and cut drag.
NickD wrote:Appleseed wrote: Didn't RMR offer suspension stuff for them?Not sure on RMR, but I know Feals does. They sponsor Aurimas Bakchis' Genesis drift car. In pro drifting, the Genesis has a bit of a reputation as a career killer
Why? Hard to drive?
DaewooOfDeath wrote:Flight Service wrote:Why not compressed air?¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: In reply to Flight Service: Why fuel, and why throttle? I say cut ignition, and only do it when the clutch is in. Keep the throttle open while shifting, and dump some fuel into that turbine to keep it spinning!Old mis-fire technique used in Group B. You don't lose boost for a longer amount of time, one issue, get it wrong you eat a turbo immediately, get it right and you replace it after each race. Turbos like hot gas not exploding fuel. Porsche is using the fuel cut out on production cars now. Cleaner, no damage to stuff and the car gets to keep boost a little while longer, even if it isn't as long as the mis-fire method.
Weight of system, parasitic drag to charge it (unless you are capturing what would be dumped by the Waste gate on the Turbo), losses in the system (there is a reason you don't see many air hybrids, and it has been tried)
Unless the car is very underweight and you have lots of ballast you can jetison to use for the system, you are adding heft and drag for pumps.
Obviously I don't know how bad the problem is or how much extra weight we are adding exactly.
I would guess 50~75 lbs for the system and loss of 2~5 hp by the pump. For what is essentially a better off the corner and acceleration shot.
Just a SWAG
DaewooOfDeath wrote:Spoolpigeon wrote: I've only got a couple of autocross runs in 2 Genesis coupes, and all I remember is massive understeer.Was it grinding, quivering understeer or was it just conservative tuning, do you think?
It felt terminal in both cars. The front end just didn't want to bite. Both were also on staggered wheel setups, so I imagine a square setup and some alignment tweaks would help.
Flight Service wrote:DaewooOfDeath wrote:Weight of system, parasitic drag to charge it (unless you are capturing what would be dumped by the Waste gate on the Turbo), losses in the system (there is a reason you don't see many air hybrids, and it has been tried) Unless the car is very underweight and you have lots of ballast you can jetison to use for the system, you are adding heft and drag for pumps. Obviously I don't know how bad the problem is or how much extra weight we are adding exactly. I would guess 50~75 lbs for the system and loss of 2~5 hp by the pump. For what is essentially a better off the corner and acceleration shot. Just a SWAGFlight Service wrote:Why not compressed air?¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: In reply to Flight Service: Why fuel, and why throttle? I say cut ignition, and only do it when the clutch is in. Keep the throttle open while shifting, and dump some fuel into that turbine to keep it spinning!Old mis-fire technique used in Group B. You don't lose boost for a longer amount of time, one issue, get it wrong you eat a turbo immediately, get it right and you replace it after each race. Turbos like hot gas not exploding fuel. Porsche is using the fuel cut out on production cars now. Cleaner, no damage to stuff and the car gets to keep boost a little while longer, even if it isn't as long as the mis-fire method.
For a sprint, I'd charge it in the pits. A NO2 bottle full of air would seem to suffice for a little anti-lag, no?
Spoolpigeon wrote:DaewooOfDeath wrote:It felt terminal in both cars. The front end just didn't want to bite. Both were also on staggered wheel setups, so I imagine a square setup and some alignment tweaks would help.Spoolpigeon wrote: I've only got a couple of autocross runs in 2 Genesis coupes, and all I remember is massive understeer.Was it grinding, quivering understeer or was it just conservative tuning, do you think?
Ah, the 225s up front and the 245s in the back? That sounds easy to fix.
In reply to DaewooOfDeath:
I agree. If it were my car I would cram as much tire up front as possible.
Does this series have a rulebook?
DaewooOfDeath wrote:Flight Service wrote:For a sprint, I'd charge it in the pits. A NO2 bottle full of air would seem to suffice for a little anti-lag, no?DaewooOfDeath wrote:Weight of system, parasitic drag to charge it (unless you are capturing what would be dumped by the Waste gate on the Turbo), losses in the system (there is a reason you don't see many air hybrids, and it has been tried) Unless the car is very underweight and you have lots of ballast you can jetison to use for the system, you are adding heft and drag for pumps. Obviously I don't know how bad the problem is or how much extra weight we are adding exactly. I would guess 50~75 lbs for the system and loss of 2~5 hp by the pump. For what is essentially a better off the corner and acceleration shot. Just a SWAGFlight Service wrote:Why not compressed air?¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: In reply to Flight Service: Why fuel, and why throttle? I say cut ignition, and only do it when the clutch is in. Keep the throttle open while shifting, and dump some fuel into that turbine to keep it spinning!Old mis-fire technique used in Group B. You don't lose boost for a longer amount of time, one issue, get it wrong you eat a turbo immediately, get it right and you replace it after each race. Turbos like hot gas not exploding fuel. Porsche is using the fuel cut out on production cars now. Cleaner, no damage to stuff and the car gets to keep boost a little while longer, even if it isn't as long as the mis-fire method.
Yeah, but how little. If you got the time and spare stuff laying around worth the experiment. I would start with weighing everything.
But I don't think you will be able to overcome a shut throttle body.
As I say when I go to my part time job on Tuesday evenings.
"Is the juice worth the squeeze?"
Spoolpigeon wrote: In reply to DaewooOfDeath: I agree. If it were my car I would cram as much tire up front as possible.
I got the chance to auto-x an 11 R-spec with 245/265 setup and it was VERY well balanced, had crisp turn in, good grip and transitioned well. The only "issue" I had with it was when I overdrove into a corner and got myself into understeer, there wasn't enough power on tap to overcome the 265's and get the ass to come around. THis was with the 210hp turbo-4, so I imagine that the 13-up 270+ cars were better in regards to that.
Honestly, the only thing that car needed was about 50-75hp to make it perfect for me as a DD/autox car. I've never got to drive the 3.8GDI cars with their 330+hp. I bet they are just about perfect for me.
It is a heavy car, and will never be lightweight. Without a lot of work (turbo swap, tuning, etc) the non-di motors don't make a lot of power and are laggy.
Usually anti-lag isn't used in rwd cars for a reason, I wouldn't explore that avenue. Size the turbo appropriately, get back on the gas earlier than you'd think (or left foot brake) to keep it spooled.
We still haven't been given the rules, so it's impossible to make helpful suggestions. The one saving grace is that the ricers took to these like crazy, so inexpensive (but low quality) "performance" parts are readily available if trying to maintain a budget that will make the car perform "good enough".
DaewooOfDeath wrote:NickD wrote:Why? Hard to drive?Appleseed wrote: Didn't RMR offer suspension stuff for them?Not sure on RMR, but I know Feals does. They sponsor Aurimas Bakchis' Genesis drift car. In pro drifting, the Genesis has a bit of a reputation as a career killer
Not really, just not very successful. After winning a lot with his Pontiacs, Rhys Millen built a Genesis for Formula D and never really had great success before retiring from Formula D. Ark Performance built a pair, one with a supercharged Hyundai V6 for Pat Mordaunt and another with an LS engine for Dennis Mertzanis, and the Mordaunt car ate engines like candy, blowing multiple up in a single event (2 in qualifying alone), before never being seen again for the rest of the season. Mordaunt jumped back to a 350Z, where he's had middling success. Mertzanis hung around and never did well with the LS car and ended up finishing so low in standings that he lost his Pro license. Aurimas Backchis ended up with the Ark LS-swapped car, now running under the Feals banner and but only used it for all his out-of-country events last season, sticking with his S14 for US events. Rumor is that he's running the whole season this year, so maybe he finally sorted it out.
In reply to Bobzilla:
Yeah, these were turbo cars. Using the throttle just made the understeer worse. The V6 is probably better suited.
One of these guy bought an FRS to replace his Genesis. His first autox run in it, he hit every critical cone because he was turning in where he normally would in the Genesis lol. It took him several events to adjust his input timing.
Spoolpigeon wrote: In reply to Bobzilla: Yeah, these were turbo cars. Using the throttle just made the understeer worse. The V6 is probably better suited. One of these guy bought an FRS to replace his Genesis. His first autox run in it, he hit every critical cone because he was turning in where he normally would in the Genesis lol. It took him several events to adjust his input timing.
I had the same problem with the FOrte. I tried to drive it like the Elantra and was horrible. Although now I know WHY the Elantra had issues.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: Does this series have a rulebook?
Yes, and it's written in Korean.
Broad strokes are: 1. Stock engine type (no motor swaps) 2. No relocating suspension mounting points. 3. 350 hp cap (for this car, anyway). 4. Nexen R-comps. 5. 1200 kg minimum weight.
I'm also not building the car. I'm trying to get an idea what I'm in for. The dudes building the car listen to me, but nobody has mistaken me for an engineer.
Aren't these motors related to the Evo X motors?
I've never had a problem with boost falling off between shifts on a track, in any turbo car that I've driven. Once up and going, you are always in the upper half of the rev range, and should get instant boost after a shift. If boost is falling off between shifts on a stock turbo car, I'd look for other issues, like the e-throttle others mentioned.
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