learn me hondas

ok, i may or may not have just done something stupid.

just bought a 89 CRX Si with a blown motor and 300,000 miles on it. no accident damage, minimal rust around the rear fender lips, good interior, origonal paint, unmolested, blah blah blah.

for what i spent, i didnt get hurt.

this car will be used by my father and me in street and HPDE/TT events. he's an instructor, and also very competitive in TT, so the typical response of first modification being seat time is not needed for him, just me.

list of stuff to do: 1. get it running. to do so requires a motor. were looking for something bolt in and cheap. think GRM cheap. not worried about a ton of power. we were thinking a stock motor for the car, but CRX's arent exactly plentiful anymore. so what can we get something out of that will bolt right in? i dont wanna have to jack around with making motor mounts, converting wiring, finding accessory brackets, etc. 2. get the AC working. someone was nice enough to take random parts from the AC system. any junkyard solutions from other hondas? 3. brake upgrades. we want 4 wheel discs with junkyard parts. stuff that will clear 15's, as well. what works? what do we actually need? 4. track tuime before major suspension upgrades, which will include coilovers, swaybars, bushings, gussets, bracing, etc.

so, if y'all could throw advice and interchange info my way, it would be greatly appreciated. this is my first foray into something other than domestic rear wheel drive stuff, so the learning curve will be steep.

thanks michael

I'm no Honduh guru, but it seems that if the motor needs to come out anyway, its upgrade time! Search ebay for mount/swap kits. Considering the idiots I've known that managed to pull off a clean swap, it must be the easiest thing going.

IIRC my 91 CRX Si had factory rear discs, and every fanboi within 50 miles with Civics from 88s to 99s were drooling. So it would seem that there is a large degree of interchangeability. Don't forget Acuras as parts sources. Integras shared a LOT with Civics.

1. When the motor on my gf's 88 CRX Si died, we scored a replacement D16A6 (stock motor) for $50. Don't worry about finding one - they're as common as dirt. They came in every Civic/CRX Si from 88-91, as well as the RT4WD wagons and the rare Civic EX sedan. I think they even came standard in some later models, too. So, to keep it super simple, drop a replacement D16A6 in there and go to town. It's only a tick over 100hp, but the car is so small and light it'll respond well. Any D-series motor will bolt right up to the car and transmission. The D16A6 is one of the best there is, but there are some JDM versions that are better and even have VTEC.

2. The AC system from any 88-91 Civic/CRX so equipped should drop right in.

3. Rear discs were available only on the 90-91 CRX Si. They're going to be pretty rare and tough to find, but that's where to look. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it - most of your braking is from the front anyway, so upgrade the front pads and rotors (or if you're really ambitions swap larger Integra hubs and calipers on).

4. Have fun! I really wish I could work out the clutch issues on my gf's car. She thinks I hate her CRX (and truth be told I do prefer my Miata to it), but I think they're great cars - when they're working...

You're going to want a D16. Honda's SOHC motor that was used in alot of things up to the mid/late nineties. Non-vtec examples shouldn't be too pricey or you can shell out a lil more and get a 'low' mileage example. Most (if not all) of them should be plug and play. And they'll try their best to last forever.

Never had the AC working in my civic, so can't help you with that.

I believe you can retrofit the rear trailing arm assembly from the early integra onto civics and crxs of that vintage. I know the ef honda guys do it all the time to get 4 wheel discs. Pretty well documented swap from what I understand.

I love my 89 civic si, which is pretty much the same beast. Take care of it - these days an good condition unmolested CRX is pretty much an exotic.

so, on craigslist theres a motor from a 93 hatcheback civic for pretty cheap. the picure looks like the same one. according to you guys, it should bolt in. right?

as far as the ac goes, thanks. makes that easy.

if the rear discs arent really worth it, i wont bother spending the money. the integra hub swap sounds interesting. any onfo?

thannks so far. michael

and sorry about the typing. my fat fingers suck at the laptop keyboard.

IIRC, the 93 isn't a D16. I had a '91 RT4 wagon that I dropped a JDM "ZC" motor (DOHC). I payed too much for the motor, but it was 130hp, instead of the 108ish hp of the standard Si motor. While it was out, I had the flywheel lightened. What a hoot! Throttle response was sweet. From what I remember from my swap, the crank position sensor gave me grief, but was remedied by the guy I bought the motor from.

I think the first gen Integra had a slightly milder version of the ZC. While it's easy enough to paint it, the ZC had a black valve cover and the Teggy's was brown.

I still have my old Si/wagon motor, but it has a hole in the block and busted rod.The head and other parts are available, though, for a stupid low price (like shipping+some beer money).

The 3 bolt in options are 1. a replacement D16A6 [108HP, 92 Ft/lbs] 2. JDM ZC 1.6L DOHC [130HP 108(?)Ft/Lbs]pic and source 3. JDM ZC 1.6L SOHC [120HP 99Ft/lbs] pic and source

All 3 will bolt to your stock trans and motor mounts. The 2 ZC options will require re-pinning of the distributer plug(the USDM cars have a round plug, the JDM cars have a square plug like integras) which is easily done with a mechhanics pick and a little patience. A little tinkering with the vacuum lines might be in order also, but there are only 3 or 4 total, so its just a matter of using tees if you don't have enough ports to supply everything, or plugging an extra line that isn't needed.

The USDM trans has the lowest final drive, but the JDM ZC trans has a sweet set of close ratio cogs. The DOHC ZC also limits @ 7500RPM, and with a intake/header/exhaust pulls hard from 4K right to red line.

The DOHC ZC will run with your stock ECM, it just feels like someone pulled the plug on you when it red lines at about 6800. A 88-89 Teg ECM is almost as good as the proper JDM one, and limits at 7500 also.

There is a plethora of other options, but those are the cheapest/easiest. The next easiest would be a 90-93 integra B18A and tranny, but that requires after market engine mounts. They do have awesome(by Honda standards) torque at 120Ft/lbs.

Stay away from 86-89 Teg motors, the mounts are different and the power is only like 116HP.

90-93 Integra rear discs will bolt on, but as Justin mentioned shouldn't be nessescary until you jump to a "B" series motor. Look for the "Track Rat" CRX project car here on the site for some solid info and build ideas as far as where to spend your money first.

I've been using ZCs since 2002, so if you have any Qs about them just shoot me a message.

Roger

ANY stock civic motor from 1988-2000 will drop right into your car, so finding one is not a problem. Quick break down of motors:

I'll just do what is most common and ignore the base model super-economy motors that Canada never got:

88-91 was either D15B2 or D16A6. Both look identical from the outside, D15B2 made 90hp and D16A6 made 106hp. D16A6 has a bigger bottom end (longer stroke, the mains are 5mm bigger, block is slightly taller) but otherwise the difference is just in the injection type (multiport or throttle body) and cam shaft. Heads are identical. These motors use OBD0 electronics.

92-95 was either D15B7 or D16Z6. The D15B7 looks identical to the 88-91 motors, and actually is identical to a D15B2 with the exception that it has multiport and OBD1 electronics. It makes 102hp. The D16Z6 is the most sought after factory D-series motor. It has more or less the same bottom end as the D16A6 (pistons have more dish though) but the head is completely different, as it has VTEC. It makes 126hp, and visually you can tell the difference between the D15B2, D15B7 and D16A6 be the valve cover. The spark plug wire tubes on the D16Z6 are angled to the front of the car, not the back like the others.

96-00 was either D16Y7 or D16Y8. These have 106hp for the Y7 and 127hp for the Y8. Their bottom ends are weaker, their oil pumps put out less volume and pressure, and the crankshaft has half the oil holes per journal. The Y7 head is non-vtec, other than that i don't know it's strengths and weaknesses. Visually it looks the same as the D16Z6 and D16Y8 (uses the same valve cover). The D16Y7 is multiport injected but uses a intake manifold with a up facing throttle body, so it looks like a throttle body injected car. The D16Y8 is VTEC, head is designed with ports that allow for alot more swirl-effect for the intake. It also has better quench area than the Z6 and as a result uses less timing. The Z6 head is marginally better for performance. The Y8 is built a bit more for economy. All D16Y motors are OBD2.

For 88-91 there was a D15B1 that made 70hp, it was only on the basemodel hatchbacks. Same as a D15B2 but with a crappier cam and restrictor plate. The CRX HF has a B15B6 that was basically a D15B1 but with half as many valves. They just blanked them out. No idea what power it made, but it was very little and it had a 5000rpm redline.

For 92-95 there was a D15Z1 that was really great for fuel economy, it had VTEC but it was tuned for economy (VTEC-E). Also had a wideband O2 stock for really lean a/f mixes. There was also a D15B8 for US hatchbacks, not sure what power it made, it was like the CRX HF and had only 8 valves, just blanked out half of them.

For 96-00 there was a HX model coupe (?) that was also tuned for economy with VTEC-E. Not familiar with it. There was also a GX trim level that ran on compressed natural gas, don't know anything else about them either other than their pistons are great for making very high compression in regular D-series.

So visually it's hard to tell what is what (only two valve covers) unless it has manifolds to help identify it or the model it came out of.

If you want to use your original electronics (cheapest solution) then a D16A6 is going to be the best bet for power vs cost. Trick is finding one that doesn't smoke, most now have lots of hard miles on them. You could also put in a D15B2 or D15B7, you'll be losing maybe 5hp or so with these due to lost displacement but they also like to rev more since they have a shorter stroke. You could use your original D16A6 cam in those, it's a direct drop in and make a bit more power, though the cam timing does get thrown off a bit because of the shorter deck high of the 1.5L blocks. An adjustable cam gear can correct this.

Another option is to buy a D16Z6 with 126hp and convert your car to OBD1 VTEC electronics. A high quality conversion harness that makes everything plug and play is under $200 (though you can find deals or make one yourself for cheap), and the appropriate ECU is around $120.

You can also mix and match block/head/pistons to make your own high-compression motor using really cheap junkyard parts. I had a '90 Hatch back with a D16A6 bottom end with a D16Z6 VTEC head and electronics, this gave me 10:1 compression. It was good for 15.2 at 90mph in the quarter mile.

There's also a plethora of JDM motors available too, ranging from a DOHC ZC, to a triple-stage VTEC single cam (dang y0, dat E36 M3 is hella tyte, son)

In reply to Run_Away:

WOW! Dad speaking here. As a long time reader of GRM, but an old guy who seldom visits any forums, you guys are impressive. The kowledge shared by you and the time taken to enlighten us and share your knowledge is truly inspiring. Thanks so much. Keep the posts and knowledge coming. I am a small block Chevy guy, but this car will be perfiect for my son and we look forward to the build.

D-series is the way to go for cheap. I personally would go with the Y8. It has the best flowing intake manifold and throttle body so if you go with another engine it wouldn't be bad to get those parts. If you swap earlier pistons like the ones in first gen. Integra into a later engine like the D16Y8, you will get a 10.7:1 comp ratio. Also King Motorsports sells wiring harnesses that make it easy to swap a OBD2 engine like the Y8 into an early car. The natural gas Civic pistons will provide a compression ratio of 12.5:1. And also B18A/B con rods can be put in the engine if they are shaved down a little and they are much stronger then the stock rods.

d16z6 is a bomb-proof 130hp with a header and an air filter.

That would make for a quick little CRX.

how much needs to be changed for the z6? it seems to be thedirection were leaning.

I had a 90 Civic Sedan with the DPFI motor. I did a "mini-me" swap which entails putting the head from and Si (MPFI) onto the DX bottom end. You splice in a few wires, add a control box for the extra injectors, and swap out the ECM. If the blown motor is a top-end issue, this might be an even cheaper way to up the HP without a motor swap. Plus, you will be all wired for a D16 swap down the road.

I also did the rear disk conversion. I found a '90 Integra in a boneyard, and pulled the rear trailing arms and hubs for $20 each. I took the sway bar, brake disks, calipers...the whole shooting match for $40. Bolted right up to the sedan with no issues, although I added braided lines so I'm not sure if the OEM lines would have worked. I also grabbed a lightweight aluminum radiator from that car and swapped it over, the shifter knob, a nice billet oil filler cap, some fuses...keep you eyes open you never know what you will find. I liked the rear disks because they never faded on the track.

I did the complete polyurethane suspension upgrade, which should be first on the list for any 4th Gen Civic. That allowed my coil spring and shock upgrades to actually do something. With good brake pads and tires, that Civic surprised a lot of cars on the track. I could out-brake and out-handle most other cars, although the straights were a bit of an issue. Nothing that a B16 wouldn't have fixed though!

Define "dead". It's hard to kill a D16A6.

For rear discs, just get the whole trailing arm assembly from a 90-91 CRX Si and swap over. You'll also want to grab the master cylinder and proportioning valve from the same car. That said, unless you have a good reason to swap, I wouldn't bother. The drums are fine.

d16z6 is a bomb-proof 130hp with a header and an air filter. That would make for a quick little CRX.

+1. We've been throwing 15+ PSI of boost at the otherwise bone-stock 180,000 mile D16z6 in the s0upRturd for 2 years now, and the berkeleyer refuses to die. Plus, most t00nR kids aren't interested in the single-stick, so it shouldn't be hard to find a 30-40,000 mile motor from an importer for 300-400 bucks or less.

by dead, i mean that a rod exited the block, took out the AC compreso, and dissapeared. its just gone. not in the motor, nothing. really freaking huge hole in the block. dunno if it too out the head too, but judging by the amount of damage, i wouldnt be suprised to find chunks of valve in the oil pan.

2 owners ago was a kid who never checked the oil, and liked to wind it to valve float, according to the guy we bought it from.

were going to look at a Z6 on friday when were both off of work. then we need to find the wiring harness and computer to complete the swap. ill probably be posting a want ad on the forum, as well as on craigslist.

is 500 bucks for an 80,000 motor that we can hear run and driv around too much?

thanks again, and keep the info comping

michael

500 is a pretty good deal for a motor with 80k on the clock. I'd snag that one before its too late!

Run_Away wrote: For 96-00 there was a HX model coupe (?) that was also tuned for economy with VTEC-E. Not familiar with it. There was also a GX trim level that ran on compressed natural gas, don't know anything else about them either other than their pistons are great for making very high compression in regular D-series.

You know allot more about this stuff than me, but I can add on the HX due to the amount research I did for my HX into 96 hatch swap, the HX head is the exact same casting as the EX, with identical secondary machining. The EX valve springs are higher rate, otherwise identical valve setup as well. The roller rocker assy on the HX is pretty trick, low friction and the same rocker ratio as the EX. The HX cam is actually hotter than the EX on "performance" bump. The single intake valve opening below 3k is what makes the HX the HX. I have recently read a couple threads where people are building HX motors and locking the V--attak Yo! out of the motor and putting a big cam in because the roller set-up will allow much bigger bumps. Anyway, HX (d16y5 ) can be has dirt cheap. I have picked up 2 runners for $50 each. The GX is the HX with bigger wrist pins and higher compression.

Shaun wrote:

Run_Away wrote: For 96-00 there was a HX model coupe (?) that was also tuned for economy with VTEC-E. Not familiar with it. There was also a GX trim level that ran on compressed natural gas, don't know anything else about them either other than their pistons are great for making very high compression in regular D-series.

You know allot more about this stuff than me, but I can add on the HX due to the amount research I did for my HX into 96 hatch swap, the HX head is the exact same casting as the EX, with identical secondary machining. The EX valve springs are higher rate, otherwise identical valve setup as well. The roller rocker assy on the HX is pretty trick, low friction and the same rocker ratio as the EX. The HX cam is actually hotter than the EX on "performance" bump. The single intake valve opening below 3k is what makes the HX the HX. I have recently read a couple threads where people are building HX motors and locking the V--attak Yo! out of the motor and putting a big cam in because the roller set-up will allow much bigger bumps. Anyway, HX (d16y5 ) can be has dirt cheap. I have picked up 2 runners for $50 each. The GX is the HX with bigger wrist pins and higher compression.

Boy, would I be tempted to get this swap for my next DD.

What kind of gas mileage does that combo get???

Yeah, that sounds dead. :)

That Z6 sounds OK. Not a great deal, not a horrible one.

You can use the current distributor and intake manifold, and a VAFC, and not futz around with a different ECU and an OBD conversion.

In reply to gamby:

My best tank was 52 or 53. I forget exactly. The worst has been 34-36, and it is usually 40 or so. On the freeway going 75-80 on summer gas I get 40+. With the stock motor I averaged 32-34, and now it is 39-41 or so. So it was worth it. The best part is that the HX without the cat in the exhaust manifold set-up, 96-00 EX headers, and a slightly tweaked to fit (25$!) 99-00 SI exhaust pulls much harder than the Y7 while getting the better gas millage. If you are going to do a swap with a y5 and run the stock ecu and need to pass smog, do not use any part form a California car, and stick to ob2a 96-98, because you can leave the stock gas tank in (99-00 cars have a tank pressure sensor that if not found by the ecu it will throw a code). If you are going for a ob1 tuned ecu setup, you can delete the EGR and a bunch of stuff and use a EX intake manifold. The 5 wire o2 sensor can also be skipped. they can be had for 80 bucks new on ebay- the 300$ honda o2 sensor is not the only option.

Shaun wrote: In reply to gamby: My best tank was 52 or 53. I forget exactly. The worst has been 34-36, and it is usually 40 or so. On the freeway going 75-80 on summer gas I get 40+. With the stock motor I averaged 32-34, and now it is 39-41 or so. So it was worth it. The best part is that the HX without the cat in the exhaust manifold set-up, 96-00 EX headers, and a slightly tweaked to fit (25$!) 99-00 SI exhaust pulls much harder than the Y7 while getting the better gas millage. If you are going to do a swap with a y5 and run the stock ecu and need to pass smog, do not use any part form a California car, and stick to ob2a 96-98, because you can leave the stock gas tank in (99-00 cars have a tank pressure sensor that if not found by the ecu it will throw a code). If you are going for a ob1 tuned ecu setup, you can delete the EGR and a bunch of stuff and use a EX intake manifold. The 5 wire o2 sensor can also be skipped. they can be had for 80 bucks new on ebay- the 300$ honda o2 sensor is not the only option.

I'm cutting-and-pasting this to the "car mods" doc that I keep for future "possibilities". Thanks for the info. That is fantastic.

That Z6 sounds OK. Not a great deal, not a horrible one.

+1. Again though, check with a local importer first. Z6's are a dime a dozen, and you might be able to find or request a whole front clip; i.e. motor, trans, wiring harness, ECU, etc.

From greensboro CL - whole car WITH goodies. I'm guessing $500 cash would take it:

http://greensboro.craigslist.org/pts/1241465111.html

Probably worth taking a look.

poopshovel wrote: From greensboro CL - whole car WITH goodies. I'm guessing $500 cash would take it: http://greensboro.craigslist.org/pts/1241465111.html Probably worth taking a look.

Especially with the Shunk 2 and Toreko parts!