Learn me- is300.

In reply to TA_:

I could turn it off on my manual (had to a few times in Wisconsin snow); overall it was a letdown though. Not a BAD car, just disappointing. Stock vs stock my E46 330 was a much better car to live with.

Knurled wrote: I have a feeling that the big, heavy iron engine is a prime factor in the fuel economy. That's a lot of mass to heat up on a cold start. (Supposedly, excessively long warmup times are why the US never got the Nissan RB engines, too) Of course, on long road trips that SHOULD balance out, so there has to be more to the story than that.

I think that is part of the reason for poor FE. Mine was terrible around town and especially in the winter. It was not so bad on long highway trips where I could get 27mpg (US). Another factor is that is really needs a 6th gear. The rpms are 3300 or more at highway speed. The transmission was also programmed to give a lot of engine braking on decel. You could get better mileage by shifting to neutral to glide farther when approaching red lights or stop lights. I always thought that the complete lack of repair costs paid for the poor FE.

Also, I don't think traction control could be defeated completely. The trac-off button allowed you to spin the wheels from a stop to get moving in the snow, but stability control was still there. It showed up on the autox course. There was a 10 step cheat process to disable VDIM in the generation 2 IS, but I never saw one for the IS300.

We had a sport cross.....

big, heavy... I wasn't impressed

I'm surprised you didn't like yours. My sportcross is almost identical overall length as a matrix and weighs 3150. That seems neither big, nor heavy to me. With a manual and an auto rear diff (and no other mods) it was as fast as my buddy's s2k.

pointofdeparture wrote: I had a 5-speed/LSD one for the better part of a year. Biggest things I remember are oddly poor gas mileage (like 20MPG on premium), uncomfortable seats and the world's worst CD changer (it would devour discs and quit working if you hit a bump). Fun to drive and made nice noises though. Awesome chronograph gauge cluster. Mine needed the timing belt service completed while I had it which wasn't fun or cheap. I had a BMW E46 330 a few years later and really cost of ownership was about the same, though the BMW got better gas mileage and had much better seats. I never knew E46s were supposed to be unreliable, that's news to me. The BMW cooling system service is about the same cost and level of effort as an IS timing belt service so that's kind of a wash, and both cars have suspension bushings and so forth that can wear out so really they are pretty analogous from a cost/maintenance perspective. To sum it up I would say that I preferred the IS in concept but the E46 was the better car to live with. The IS is a really uniquely pretty car that looks great if you study it closely in person, very unique Japanese styling touches. I would have another but not as a daily driver...and I'd immediately junk the awful seats in favor of Recaros.

Having owned both, the E46 and IS300 are in different orbits when it comes to cost of ownership >100k miles. Toyota bushing life is measured on the order of decades, not a 40k replacement plan. The unibody doesn't crack, strut towers don't mushroom, plastic and rubber parts don't disintegrate, etc.

The IS300 is as good as a 325/328, without the headache. The 330i is a better car, though.

Alternate thought here is the G35 sedan of the same generation which had a 6 spd and more ponies. I don't love the looks of them but the performance is far higher. I would put the G35 in line with the better looking E46 on performance while retaining the Japanese reliability.

In reply to 84FSP:

Outta that 5k price range. 5k is my max.

I love these cars. Lsd makes or breaks them in my opinion. So does a regear. If you get a manual one and dont do a ton of highway driving the auto diff is a great mod. If you get an auto one a frs/brz does the same. The factory premium audio is really good if you add a sub. The sedan is much more rigid than the wagon. These cars have great visibility out the front and the wagons are poor out the rear. Iirc pre 02 cars were different in a lot of subtle ways but the wiring is different and that can present issues when modding and swapping. They are anvils, just the absolute toughest berking cars. Daily abuse, drifting, track duty, and mileage does nothing to hurt them. I literally drift mine everywhere every day, track it a bunch, redline most shifts and it's utterly reliable. They dont like to be run on low octane fuel or they will hurt catastrophic converters (something m030 called them, autocorrect just did that on the way home from his services and now there are tears running down my cheeks) every 100-150k. Double defoulers at that point and keep on trucking happily ever after. I see them as an indestructible e36 (not m3). You can make them m3 fighters but they are not intended to be that stock.

Aspen wrote: Also, I don't think traction control could be defeated completely. The trac-off button allowed you to spin the wheels from a stop to get moving in the snow, but stability control was still there. It showed up on the autox course. There was a 10 step cheat process to disable VDIM in the generation 2 IS, but I never saw one for the IS300.

So i know the the traction control on the 2jz engines is just a secondary throttle plate that moves in front of the standard throttle plate. you can see the external motor here

would it be possible to just remove that plate but leave the motor and shaft in there? so when it tries to choke the engine down to stop wheel spin the shaft rotates so the ECM things everything is still working like it should but without a plate there is no air flow being blocked.

Stability control was called "VSC" on the IS300. It was optional in North America except for the SportX. So the easiest way to defeat it would be to buy a car without it. It may or may not be possible to get a car with LSD and no VSC.

Even it you defeated the throttle plate the brakes would still be under VSC control.

There was a base trim level that got cloth seats, no sunroof and 16" wheels, no HID, no fog lights, possibly manual seats and no VSC. Same motor, same brakes, same suspension. It would be the lightest and cheapest starting point and could have an LSD swapped in.

When looking for the wife's car, (TSX), I test drove a second generation IS. Even though it was road hard and put up wet, was maybe the best car I have ever driven. Way better than the TSX, way better than my dads Infiniti G37. And I come from a world of bmw, Infiniti, Subaru, and Miata's. It was a phenomenal car. Unfortunately there is next to zero headroom. with the seat reclined back to a "baller" level, I still was looking at the sun visor. Which was not down.

I didn't drive it in anger; it was slightly underpowered (250 and automatic), and it was heavy--but it just drove like a car is supposed to. It was really a great car. If I had fit (I'm only 5'10" but with a really long torso) we would have scrapped the TSX search and been looking for one.

In reply to mtn:

You must be build like Jack Skellington. I'm 6'1" and my dd has been some form of second gen IS for nearly a decade...I've got a few inches of headroom.

pointofdeparture wrote: In reply to TA_: I could turn it off on my manual (had to a few times in Wisconsin snow); overall it was a letdown though. Not a BAD car, just disappointing. Stock vs stock my E46 330 was a much better car to live with.

Whenever I lust over these on CL I have to see if buying an is300+mods is more $$ or an e46 330i + deferred maintenance is more, and then realize it's still more money than I'd like to spend.

It's possible to buy a really nice 330i with a stack of records for $6k, but you're going to have to wade through cars with a lot of baggage to find one. I don't know how production numbers compare, but I see 2x as many 330s for sale as IS300s. You can't get an LSD in a 330i, and you probably can't find one in the IS.

Don't get me wrong, I really liked our IS and I'm a die hard Toyota fan, but my 330i ZHP with a shorter final drive pulls 7-10mpg better hwy fuel economy than I EVER saw from the IS, with more power.

330i ZHP>330i>IS300>328/325.

Oil filter changes on the IS also take a pound of hide. You can tell that the engine bay was designed for the 3SGE and not the 2JZ.

Despite all the stupid crap that becomes a maintenance item on the BMW, basic maintenance is easy.

If the IS had come over with the Gen4 3SGTE, it would have been a game changer.

Aspen wrote: Stability control was called "VSC" on the IS300. It was optional in North America except for the SportX. So the easiest way to defeat it would be to buy a car without it. It may or may not be possible to get a car with LSD and no VSC. Even it you defeated the throttle plate the brakes would still be under VSC control. There was a base trim level that got cloth seats, no sunroof and 16" wheels, no HID, no fog lights, possibly manual seats and no VSC. Same motor, same brakes, same suspension. It would be the lightest and cheapest starting point and could have an LSD swapped in.

It's definitely possible to buy a non vsc lsd car, in fact vsc is fairly rare in my experience whereas lsd is not very rare.

Why would you want a limited slip? It hurts turn-in and the car doesn't make enough power to need it. And in the winter, limited slip in a rear drive car is pretty much dangerous.

In reply to Knurled:

Not if you know how to drive it.

Trackmouse wrote: In reply to Knurled: Not if you know how to drive it.

Says the guy who doesn't understand brake markers :)

Knurled wrote: Why would you want a limited slip? It hurts turn-in and the car doesn't make enough power to need it. And in the winter, limited slip in a rear drive car is pretty much dangerous.

This is sarcasm right?

Stefan wrote:

Trackmouse wrote: In reply to Knurled: Not if you know how to drive it.

Says the guy who doesn't understand brake markers :)

Was I wrong?

Also, I understand brake markers just fine. I haven't done but one track day with an instructor. There's nothing wrong with trying to better yourself, even if you are capable already. You know nothing of my work. Nor my experience. Now, stop trying to cause a problem.

calteg wrote: In reply to mtn: You must be build like Jack Skellington. I'm 6'1" and my dd has been some form of second gen IS for nearly a decade...I've got a few inches of headroom.

5'10" with a long torso. No matter how I arranged the seat, I always felt like I was looking out of the top 2 inches of the windshield. The rear view mirror was always creating a blind spot.

I drove one of these once when they first came out and really liked it. It was an auto, but it felt really buttoned down and the power felt pretty good.

They still look good, and I sort of want one, but it sounds like owner experiences are mixed.

It also sounds like owner experiences are based on a comparison of a different vehicle from a different class. Pretty sure the is300 wasn't a 50-60k Beamer.

/\ This /\

That said, with the right mods, they do just fine. They are easy to make a 2jz powered e36m3 fighter out of. Dynamics are some bushings and coilovers and sways away from being top shelf, power is a set of cams and a header away (or a turbo ).

I look at it as what you would spend in the first year repairs to a bmw, you have to spend in performance mods to the lexus. The difference is all the following years are free.

Not to mention the Lexus won't leave you on the side of the road in a bad neighborhood with unobtainable parts. In facts, the broke college kid on that street might sell you the right part off his dorifto project 2jz.