Learn Me: K-Car convertibles

Specifically, the K-body Dodge 600 and Chrysler LeBaron and not the later K-based J or P body cars or the Maserati TC.

My Dad's a big classic car show guy, and I like to tag along to some of them if I can. One show in particular that I make sure not to miss is a Friday-Sunday "fest" every September. I've always thought it would be cool to have something I could park next my Dad's car for this show especially, and maybe some others. Trouble is, for the longest time the show had a cut off of 1978 or older. While I enjoy checking out and certainly appreciate more acceptable "classic" cars, stuff older than 80's usually isn't my cup of tea in terms of something I'd want to own. However, they've recently changed the cut off to 1987 or older, which opens the door to some E36 M3boxes that I'd be happy to own.

When searching for '87 or older cars in the $3000 or lower price range, I come up with intriguing stuff like Fiero's, front engine Porsches, AW11 MR2's, Turbo Tbirds and Merkurs, as well as more "sport" oriented K-based Chrysler stuff like Daytona's and Shelby Chargers. Problem is, they're usually in some condition ranging from non-running project to runs and drives but cosmetically challenged. These LeBaron's and 600's however, usually slide into that price range in great shape, running and driving and with under 100k miles. It's also usually a pretty good bet they were elderly owned and at least initially taken care of. Not needing a bunch of work is a bonus since I have a bunch of other projects laying around already.

I'd probably only consider one with the turbo 2.2, and it would probably just be for putzing around town on nice days and taking to classic shows with my Dad. The 600 at least looks somewhat attractive with it's '86 refresh and Pizza wheels... I think?

I already own a Spirit R/T, so I'm somewhat aware of the merits and pitfalls of Turbo Mopars, but does anyone have any experience with these specifically? Anything to look out for or avoid? Will it even start if someone who hasn't consumer a Werther's Original in the last week or is under the age of 70 tries to turn the key?

No experience but:  Any interest in an '88 LeBaron turbo vert?

Not a convertible, but I have an '87 600 SE sedan with 2.2 Turbo I, auto trans, dealer installed/aftermarket Landau top. It's a great weekend cruiser, it has been utterly reliable. Only repairs I have made are replacing the fuel pump (was slowly dying of old age) and fixing an alternator bolt that backed out and fell out on the road during a long drive. This one is just what you're thinking of, a low miles garage queen that was originally well taken care of by an elderly couple. I see them available somewhat often in this shape.
Even the lowly 2.2 Turbo I is surprisingly quick. I recently added a manual boost controller to mine so I could mildly turn it up. 

Wheels are 16s from an '89ish Lebaron GTC.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/15069/

I have no first hand knowledge here so grain of salt / ignore from the go; what about a Sundance or Shadow convertible?  They're exactly what you said not to talk about so here goes; they have some styling which is different from the 600 but they share a lot of core engineering with the earlier K's.  Same selection of powerplants available; a 2.2 or 2.5 turbo both sound nice (the Mitsu V6 does not sound nice).  I think there's a lot to like about these actually aside from actually finding one.  I read somewhere they weren't actually that aerodynamic and the build quality might be iffy in places but they're simple cars really and the K platform Lego-effect should be useful here. 

So yeah I'd look at those if this was me.  They seem the coolest out of everything mentioned so far.

When it comes to turbo mopars, if you want nice driving you want the latest one possible.  The Spirit R/T is about as good as they get in terms of braking, handling, build quality, and obviously power.  A 600/box leBaron is NOT going to drive as nicely as you would think it should.   There's a reason that everyone pillages junkyards for the later supsension and brake stuff for early turbo cars.  I speak from experience, having owned a Spirit R/T and an '87 Shelby Z.

I would say the best bet given the '87 MY cutoff would be to try and find an '87 LeBaron.   They are decent driving cars for what they are, and they made quite a few turbo examples.  The 3.0 mitsu is a lot more common though.    An '87 Shadow is also a possibility, altough from what I'm told the chassis on a ragtop shadow is about as stiff as cooked linguini.

EDIT:  Just saw you're not specifically looking for a convertible (not sure why I thought that).  $3k should find you a decent turbo mopar anything if you look hard enough.

If you were local I'd invite you to check out the Lebaron I posted but I see you are in Ohio.

They are absolute E36 M3boxes, but you probably know that going in, so....

They have their quirks, but they are utterly the same under the body/hood as the later cars with the exception that they haven't had all of the development that took place later in the series.

Beware that the Mitsubishi 2.6L was an option on many of the early cars and it is its own form of pain and suffering.  I'd avoid it unless you find an absolute creampuff and you have a compatible donor.

So things like the alternators and starters tend to be larger and less reliable.  The engine is usually the same venerable 2.2 Turbo, but with solid followers and if an 85, potentially a "bathtub" head and smaller diameter distributor and smaller diameter head bolts.  Starting in 1989 they phased in crossdrilling the heads and blocks to reduce temperature at the headgasket by upwards of 90 degrees. 

The biggest gains in the later drivetrains (aside from power output due to better intake design and more boost) is the smoothness of the engine and engine control packages were much, much better starting in 1989.  They moved to roller rocker arms and a slightly less aggressive camshaft profile/valve springs, sequential injection in 1991 helped idle quality.

The automatics were the same 3-speed Torqueflite units that they used on all of the 2.2/2.5's.  Lockup converters didn't happen until much later.  Manuals were A525 or later, A520 based.  I actually have a Hurst Shifter for an early K-car that used a A525 transaxle and mechanical linkage.

Suspension is pretty basic and if you want better/more consistent handling, then you'll want to update the K-member to the 90+ units as they don't bind up as bad so you can tune the spring and damping rates to suit your taste.  Brake updates are also mostly bolt on variations of single piston calipers in various piston diameters and 2 different rotor diameters.  Going too far with sway bar diameters will simply bind up the suspension and make the handling like a go-cart.  On an already floppy chassis, that won't help.  Plus I can't imagine you'd want to make a cruiser handle like a Kart.

Since the 1st gen Neon was based loosely around the lessons learned from the L and K-based cars there are some bits and pieces that be back-dated to the K-based cars (like struts and brakes, steering racks, even the 2.0/2.4L can be adapted to the older chassis with some work.)

Things to watch for?  plugged radiators that cause headgasket failures.  Old cooling hoses.  Broken or misrouted vacuum lines.  Wiring gets cooked and starts to break down.  Distributor pickup plates are common failures (along with their associated wiring).  Sometimes the internal parts of the distributor will come loose and need the rivets replaced.  Turbo bearings/seals fail.  Cats plug up.  Typical old car stuff, really.

Polybushings.com has you covered for new motor mounts and bushings as the rubber motor mounts on the market is junk.  Turbosunleashed/Forward Motion also carry parts and pieces that may not be covered by your local FLAPS.

Most of these seem to have absolutely no back seat room - the top mechanism required a much smaller back seat. This also makes finding replacement interior bits somewhat harder. Other than the top (I've heard Chrysler actually had to coax some of the engineers who designer '60s convertibles out of retirement because they'd lost the knowledge of top mechanism design), mechanical bits are going to be the same as any other K-car. So if you want to build a Spirit R/T disguised as a 600, or for that matter throw a PT Cruiser Turbo motor in there, you could.

Also, be ready to make Jon Voight jokes, or they will be made for you.

newrider3 said:

Not a convertible, but I have an '87 600 SE sedan with 2.2 Turbo I, auto trans, dealer installed/aftermarket Landau top. It's a great weekend cruiser, it has been utterly reliable. Only repairs I have made are replacing the fuel pump (was slowly dying of old age) and fixing an alternator bolt that backed out and fell out on the road during a long drive. This one is just what you're thinking of, a low miles garage queen that was originally well taken care of by an elderly couple. I see them available somewhat often in this shape.
Even the lowly 2.2 Turbo I is surprisingly quick. I recently added a manual boost controller to mine so I could mildly turn it up. 

 

Wheels are 16s from an '89ish Lebaron GTC.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/15069/

 

The corvair behind catches my eye

MadScientistMatt said:

Most of these seem to have absolutely no back seat room - the top mechanism required a much smaller back seat. This also makes finding replacement interior bits somewhat harder.

This reminded me about the 95 LeBaron Convert I just sold. The rear quarter windows were an issue. As I recall, when the top was down stuff/debris would get into the window motor/mechanism. The plastic rollers would jam up and break. Also the motors would stop working if they weren't used regularly. There are/were parts and upgrades for some of that. If you want I could see if I still have a link. 

What everyone has already said, but I will easily admit that I would love to find a nice example for short money if ever possible.

Back when I was driving my shelbyZ Daytonas I grabbed an '86 600es vert for my mom. We lived at the beach an it was a decent cruiser for puttering around. Totally loaded with digital dash, 80's-tastic radio and leather with a 2.2 turbo/auto. Lots of body roll and flex meant lots of sliding around on the front split bench seat but I appreciated the comfort, especially with my girlfriend next to me. Manual boost controller and a few tweaks made it sporty enough to be entertaining. We could squeeze another teenager in the back seat but it was tight and headroom was limited but the top was rarely up...

Good memories for me and parts interchangeability means I would happily get into one again, plus I think the styling has aged well.

We had the top redone at an auto upholstery shop and I recall a water pump and fuel pump replacement but they were fairly reliable and easy to wrench on.

Our auto transmission rebuilder LOVES the K platform cars. 

Apparently they smell like money.

ShawnG said:

Our auto transmission rebuilder LOVES the K platform cars. 

Apparently they smell like money.

Not for the 3-speeds.  Those rarely fail unless you do something horrendously stupid or just wear them out.

The 4-speeds on the minivans and later V6 powered cars?  Yeah those, like everyone's electronic automatic at the time, were problematic and lots of improvements were implemented during its lifetime.  They are incredibly sensitive to oil type and levels.  Not something that many lube techs or owners are particularly careful about.  I mean look at Honda and Ford's recent class action suits for examples of issues with electronic autos and manufacturers not properly supporting their customers (You'd think Ford would have remembered the Pinto fuel tank issues when it came time to support their customers).

I heard Jon Voight owned one . . .

(I can't believe I am the first to post that).

I'll see myself out.

BTW, if you were closer, I could probably load up a smaller trailer full of Turbo-Dodge parts.

newrider3 said:

Not a convertible, but I have an '87 600 SE sedan with 2.2 Turbo I, auto trans, dealer installed/aftermarket Landau top. It's a great weekend cruiser, it has been utterly reliable. Only repairs I have made are replacing the fuel pump (was slowly dying of old age) and fixing an alternator bolt that backed out and fell out on the road during a long drive. This one is just what you're thinking of, a low miles garage queen that was originally well taken care of by an elderly couple. I see them available somewhat often in this shape.
Even the lowly 2.2 Turbo I is surprisingly quick. I recently added a manual boost controller to mine so I could mildly turn it up. 

 

 

Wheels are 16s from an '89ish Lebaron GTC.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/15069/

 

That's awesome. Now that I think about it, I wouldn't mind a 4 door turbo E-body like a 600, New Yorker or Caravelle that fits the bill and is cheap and somewhat show worthy shape.

--

Thanks everyone for the replies and advice so far. I somehow completely forgot that turbo G, J and P body stuff hits the '87 or older threshold. An H body would be cool too... I'd certainly consider really any turbo Mopar that meets the year requirement, runs and looks decent enough and fits in my price range. These 600/LeBaron convertibles just seem to pop up pretty frequently for cheap and usually in MUCH better shape than a comparably priced more widely appealing turbo Mopar like a GLH, Shelby Charger or Daytona. 

At least for my sake, the other appealing factor these have over the GLH/Daytona/etc. (and the non-Mopar E36 M3boxes listed in my OP), is that it's slushbox and wallowy less sportly demeanor would probably keep me from turning into another project to get some more power/handling out of it. Then again, I do have a decent stock of spare TIII crap for my Spirit, so that's probably not a given....

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:

They are absolute E36 M3boxes, but you probably know that going in, so....

Thanks. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to be the one that said that.