Learn Me Mazdaspeed 3 and Other Fun Hatchbacks

I'm getting tired of fixing our 318ti. In my search for another fun to drive reasonably priced hatchback thing, I have found absolutely nothing rear wheel drive (which is what led to the 318ti in the first place), so I'm thinking that I should explore front wheel drive options- what do I need to know about the Mazdaspeed 3? What else should I be considering in the reliable, sub $5k, manual, fun hatchback segment? I love the old Corolla FX16 and 323 GTX for example, but it seems like those cars are now old enough to command a price premium compared to something 20 years newer.

The only thing I really know about the fun used late model mazdas is premature RUST. (The ones I've seen all have rear fender rust and more hiding.) That's been enough to scare me away.

I would vote saabaru smallish awd wagon "5 door hatch". They come in turbo charged and are under-appreciated/abused. You might forget they have that goofy boxer motor as they are pretty low maintenance too.

My brother is looking for a hot hatch as well. We test drove a GTI, supercharged BRZ, and a speed 3. He is now looking for a speed 3! They have a lot of room in them and seem very solid and wow it pulled hard! That begin said we were looking at cars in the 10K range so a bit newer and less miles.

In reply to Skervey:

If you can afford $8-10k don't underestimate this. Just finished a track day at Mid Ohio yesterday and my instructor was very impressed (an older guy with a newer 'vette, so that surprised me). He said it felt very composed and well-balanced. With a little help from $1k-sh upgrades it's quite fun.

I haven't looked in a while, but I don't think the Mazdaspeed3 has fallen under $5k...it's pretty close to double that, isn't it (unless it's a basket case)?

In reply to Klayfish:

Ones with some paint/exterior defects are under $5k now.

I can't see a Mazdaspeed 3 going for less than $5K, not one you'd want to own anyway. I'd look for the best Focus SVT you can find or an EK Civic.

Don't the Speed3s have some sort of discontinued forever fuel system part that you can't get through the aftermarket?

1st what are you looking at doing with it?

2nd where are you finding these and where can i get some?

On the short list of what to look for they need motor mounts done 10 min ago if theres no documentation of them being done with good aftermarket parts, any mods to the engine you need some sort of engine management with a good tune past a down pipe otherwise be ready for a bad time, catch can if not already done, rust can be an issue (my old gen 1 MS3 was already getting surface rust on the rear bumper even though i was the only owner of it for 55k) but buy as far south as you can to avoid that, If you want power mods a forged HPP pin is a must before you go anywhere.

Would LOVE to have one again, btw with the 323 GTX parts are slim to nil for anything at all let alone the trans is made of glass, almost better off with an F2T MX6 or a BP protege at that point.

Good luck!!

I'm shopping the same criteria - "hot" hatch for about $5k for daily driving and autocross duty. While the Speed 3 would be awesome, the regular Mazda 3 hatch is on top of my list, followed by a GTi/Golf, then the Focus. I'm not so sure I trust a $5k turbo's reliability, and the NA versions don't seem to give up in day to day duties.

This may help you in your quest.

JtspellS wrote: what are you looking at doing with it?

Commute 60 miles round trip on choppy PA backroads year round, carry dogs, car parts, vet supplies, sometimes simultaneously. I've been seeing them asking ~$6500 (so $5k after negotiation bullE36 M3) pretty regularly on craigslist and disappearing quickly.

Very open to other suggestions- how's the regular 3 hatch? What about the Protege 5? Fit, Yaris, EP Civic, Aerio, Accent any fun or just penalty boxes? I really wish I could just buy a 2005 318ti built by Toyota The last of the Celica GTSs would be an easy answer but the hatch isn't tall enough for dogs.

From what you describe:

For $5K, you can get a really nice one.

We actually had a 1999 9-3 which we liked a lot, Saab may be an option.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote:

JtspellS wrote: what are you looking at doing with it?

Commute 60 miles round trip on choppy PA backroads year round, carry dogs, car parts, vet supplies, sometimes simultaneously. I've been seeing them asking ~$6500 (so $5k after negotiation bullE36 M3) pretty regularly on craigslist and disappearing quickly. Very open to other suggestions- how's the regular 3 hatch? What about the Protege 5? Fit, Yaris, EP Civic, Aerio, Accent any fun or just penalty boxes? I really wish I could just buy a 2005 318ti built by Toyota The last of the Celica GTSs would be an easy answer but the hatch isn't tall enough for dogs.

A P5 is great but having one now and having a Gen 1 MZ3 and the MS3 in the past I would suggest a MZ3 hatch or MS3 any day of the week if you can afford one, love the Protege (in fact just bought a E36 M3 load of parts so it will go another 175k) but the mazda 3 has the better everything due to simple evolution.

Though I have had a 9-5 SAAB before and that is in a completely different class of vehicle in a great way, TBH I'm not jealous of you ATM lol.

Woo something I'm good at.

The first gen MS3 does have a few problems with rust. I see clean ones all the time around us though so I think it's just a matter of actually washing the damn thing in the winter. Second gen cars don't have that problem.

The rear motor mount on the car tends to be a bit soft stock. So much so that the engine has a tendency to smash into the firewall as it starts to wear out. It's pretty common to replace it with a unit from one of a couple of different manufacturers.

Turbos are an unknown quantity in the cars. First gen cars have a tendency to smoke a and bit there's a TSB to change to 5W-40 to prevent that. Otherwise they last anywhere from 25k miles to 200k miles. I broke the journal shaft in mine at a bit over 24k.

A quick way to start an argument is to mention oil. Supposedly Mobil1 doesn't tolerate gas in the oil very well as it's a class III synthetic. It's pretty common to run Rotella T6 5W-40, as it is a class IV, in the cars. It subjectively quiets them down a bit too.

Second gen cars have an issue with the dash that has caused their warranty to be extended. If the interior of the car gets really hot it separates right above the info displays on the dashboard. There's also a recall currently on second gen hatch gas struts and the seatback adjustment device.

Both generation cars have an issue with fueling above 5500 RPM with the stock CDFP internals. CS or Autotech internals take care of that issue.

Any direct injection car suffers from "Super Knock" if you flat foot the throttle at low RPM in 5th or 6th gear. When you're driving one you want to be at 3000 RPM or higher before applying large amounts of boost. Otherwise they have a tendency to install a viewing window in the block.

Since you're buying a used one make sure that the Accessport is unmarried from the car if it was modified. You won't be able to change the MAP or reset the ECU back to stock if it was not. Also make sure that all the mods with the exception of the CDFP were removed. The car does not tolerate larger downpipes or intakes very well on the stock map.

Other than that the car has an issue with carbon buildup on the back of the valves so a catch can with a check valve is highly recommended.

It's pretty simple to make stupid amounts of power out of them with some basic parts. The stock engine is supposedly good to about 400 HP and FT-LBS of torque before it becomes a bomb.

I'm about 45 minutes north of you in the Poconos and I work in Easton. If you want to drive my modified example prior to making the decision you're welcome to it.

I have a 2006 2.0 maz3 sedan. It's quicker than a stock Miata which is quick enough for a daily on the back roads IMO. Also like a Miata, with good shocks it will outcorner everything else you come across on the street. It drives really nicely. Much better than a 2002 WRX, 2011 Fiesta and 2003 Vibe (sorry theoretical) that I have same-commute comparisons with. So far it has been rock solid reliable at 175k miles. The hatch will weigh a smidge more but they also got the 2.3l with a little more grunt to compensate. FYI the cloth seats clean up pretty well from barn dirt.

I absolutely loved the regular, non-MS 1st gen 3 that I drove. It's very lively, well composed, and reminds me of a front wheel drive Miata (kinda). Surface rust is an issue, but go south to remedy that.

Other solid options are 1st gen Foci (again, super lively, interesting rear suspension geometry). SVT if you can find one that's not been abused. I also like the Volvo s40 (not a hatch, but built on Ford's global C platform like the 3 and newer Focus).

I like the Saab 9-3, too.

Ep3 Civic Si's and similarly appointed RSXs are ok. I never was thrilled with them, but only because I think there are better options for 160hp MacStrut cars out there. Still, if a deal presented itself to you, definitely worthy of consideration.

The Fit: ehhh. I've driven several and they just don't do it for me. Lots of people liken them to a modern CRX with more usable hatch space, but I just don't see it. I think I just hate the L-series engine from Honda and its lack of tuneability. They are fantastic commuter and people movers though.

This turned out much longer than I expected...

red_stapler wrote: Don't the Speed3s have some sort of discontinued forever fuel system part that you can't get through the aftermarket?

You're probably thinking of the injectors. So yes. There's been some vague promises of new ones from one of the major aftermarket providers of the car but I'm not holding my breath.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: The last of the Celica GTSs would be an easy answer but the hatch isn't tall enough for dogs.

So, like, a VibeGT? Note those seats do NOT clean up well from barn dirt. We did otherwise love that car.

In reply to RedGT:

AKA Matrix XR, right? It's a possibility, how was it compared to the Mazda 3?

Matrix XRS for the 2zz but we drove that Vibe for 4 years with a 6k rpm redline and no lift engagement and it had plenty of grunt so I imagine a 1zz with a manual trans would be fine too.

I like the 3 more, it feels like it's a generation newer and feels lighter on its feet to drive. Not an insult to the Vibe/matrix but a complement to the 3. The Vibe drives like any other corolla/celica/etc, it's decent. However IMO the Vibe is much more utilitarian with a flat cargo floor and true fold-flat, hard-plastic-backed seats. We've moved an engine hoist, washing machine, dishwasher, large pet crates with pets, etc. Storage cubbies everywhere. Really well thought out interior.

The0retical, I think, still has our Vibe that he bought as a winter car. Go visit him and observe the cargo capacity of both Vibe and 3 in one shot :D

Volvo v50 or c30 t5 is the other speed3 you can shop for. 2nd gen Mazda 3s are falling into this range now too.

RedGT wrote: The0retical, I think, still has our Vibe that he bought as a winter car. Go visit him and observe the cargo capacity of both Vibe and 3 in one shot :D

I do actually. So if you want to drive both back to back stop by my house

In reply to The0retical:

I may have take you up on that at some point!