I found a great deal on a truck I want to buy, called the seller up and it turns out he runs a repair shop where the previous owner got the truck towed, saw the bill for repairs, and disappeared. So now the guy is selling the truck for what he put into it, which would be a great deal for me -- But how difficult would it be to title the thing once the mechanic's lien is released?
If it's relevant, the truck is in North Carolina and I'm in Tennessee. Thanks!
I'm in to learn. About a decade ago a friend picked up a clean BG protege lx from a seller in VA and didn't learn of the mechanic's lien until he went to register it in Maryland. He never did the legwork to resolve the issue and another shop in MD ended up with the vehicle.
In Ohio, at least, the party holding the lien gets a title in their name. The lien is never released, ownership legally changes hands due to the lien. Takes a bit of paperwork that I was never privy to because I work out of a toolbox, not a filing cabinet, but it is generally a pain in the ass (and rightfully so). I'd imagine it works the same elsewhere, same as if a bank had a lien and repossessed the car.
Look up a Lien sale company in North Carolina and ask them ,
Ask what a shop needs to do a Lien sale on an abandoned car at a shop ,
Here in California the shop owner needs to get it , the last ones we did were 45 days
its more trouble the more the car is valued at ,
ours were basically junk left by the bodyshop ,
but we wanted to be legal in case the real owner shows up in a year asking where his pile of junk is !
I've only ever done liens in TX and PA, so this may not help. I tried it once in CA and got burned because I was wet behind the ears. Both states had vastly different processes, but legally there was one common thing. The person who is owed money must be the one to initiate the lien. Of course, you could be a little untruthful and do something like a storage lien and claim it was on your property for the requisite time, but the current title-holder could cause all kinds of trouble if you are the one initiating the lien. If he/she contests it and comes forward with the something like "I took it to a repair shop on [insert date] and abandoned it, so this can't be true." In PA, if I file a lien for something like storage, I have to prove that a verbal or written contract was enacted. All it would take is one affidavit from the title holder saying it isn't true and I would be in a heap of trouble. I could be charged with vehicle theft and go to jail. In TX, I did a dozen or so liens at the repair shop; abandoned vehicles, unpaid bills, etc. We had pretty ironclad proof; receipts, paystubs to the mechanic, dated and signed documents, etc. You as an individual wouldn't have that unless you more or less forged it.
In the two states where I did a mechanic's lien, I was issued a title in my name. The shop should have a title once the lien is released. If they don't, then your state does it differently, or you're being lied to and about to recieve a stolen vehicle.
In TX, a repair lien was something like an $80 fee. We would give supporting documents to a guy at the local tax office and he would file the lien. 30-60 days later, we would have a clean title for the vehicle. The only time I did it in PA, it was supremely old-school; place a classified ad in the legal section of a periodical, certified snail-mail to the last three owners on record, waiting period, etc.
But in all of the cases, it wasn't that the system couldn't be easily massaged, it's that getting caught massaging the system was heavily punished. I would never purchase a vehicle without a title unless it's something like a race car or parts vehicle. I would make the shop do the lien, get the title, and do it all above-board.
The CA one I tried turned out OK (by that I mean I wasn't charged with auto theft and put in jail), but wholly unsuccessful. A guy I worked with rented a storage unit for his contracting business. He sublet the associated parking space to a guy who wanted to store his 911SC. 911 owner disappeared and stopped paying, so my buddy filed a lien and gave the car to me. I was told that the title was coming and it never did. I filed for a title as an abandoned car after it had sat in my driveway for the requisite 30 days. The DMV of course contacted the title-holder and within a few days he showed up with police accusing me of stealing it. After I explained what had happened, they went after my "buddy" who gave me the car instead of pursuing me. Not sure what happened to him, but long story short, he never applied for the storage lien so the car was reported stolen by the owner.
TL;DR... do it properly. Don't massage the law.
In ohio the lien holder completes the process and acquires title. My buddy has a towing company and has to do this with lots of trash to scrap. Sometimes he gets a gem, like the 2016 ram 4500 diesel bucket truck that lost rear wheel on the highway and jacknifed its 2017 enclosed trailer. They never claimed it, never came to pay the tow, and now he has a rig he can sell for 60 grand.
yea looks like the mechanic gets the title with the lein in nc
I tried it for a barn find 911SC, yowzah. Write a letter to the PO with a SASE, it comes back and DON'T open it. Contact the cops, half a dozen other hoops; it's a PITA.
If your mechanic is comfortable with the system and has a lawyer that works, sure; go for it! Don't fork over any money until you are OK losing it or get something in writing. I went to one of those Title Agencies out of Vermont that advertise a Title for $800. yikes. Once I explained what I knew about it, they said bring $4200 and a lawyer.
YMMV.
Thanks everyone for all the responses! From what I've read here and found elsewhere online, it looks like the mechanic should have a clear title in hand. If so, the transaction should proceed as normal.
He also should have filed a Report of Unclaimed Vehicles with NCDMV, and then a Notice of Intent to Sell for that vehicle: https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/programs/fraud-theft/Pages/forms.aspx
I believe my next step will be to call the NCDMV tomorrow and inquire about the VIN – If they've been received those documents and sent out a title for that truck, I should be good to go.
914Driver said:Don't fork over any money until you are OK losing it or get something in writing.
I wouldn't fork over any money unless there was a clear title, in the name of the person or entity you are giving the money to, and it is being signed over to you at the time the money changes hands.
The mechanic can't sell it unless it's in his name. All the lien paperwork should be done long before you ever fork over a dollar. From your standpoint it should be no different from buying any other car. If not, shop elsewhere.
Yep. Three options are, get clear title from the shop after they have cleared it.
Two, get title from original owner if it is still in his name, pay the shop after they dismiss the claim,
Three, walk away.
Mechanics liens here have gone so far into supporting the deadbeat customer as to be useless. The time allowed for registering one is less time than it takes for the cheque to bounce, and nobody cares about bouncing cheques being fraud here. (Cheques are a thing of the past, but still...)
In SC the mechanic/shop etc has to file paper work with a magistrate. I don't think its that difficult. I was going to buy 1500 Spitfire for $100, but my daughter was getting married and we were having company. The old lady wouldn't have wanted a dead car in the driveway. The bitch of the who;le deal was the car ran and had an OD transmission. I shoulda bought it because the marriage didn't work out anyway.
In California you do not get a title like if you just bought a car ,
You get a stack of "Lien sale papers" which allow you to apply for a title ,
and I do not think it takes off the back fees......beware !
In reply to californiamilleghia :
It does not. I did that with a 62 Cadillac in CA. It wasn't a lien, but I had a huge stack of dubious paperwork, took it to the DMV, they issued a title, and I had to pay about $500 in back registration.
CA DMV is expensive, but you can do just about anything with enough good-looking/fake paperwork. Originated a title for a step van and a motorcycle that way too.
Streetwiseguy said:Mechanics liens here have gone so far into supporting the deadbeat customer as to be useless. The Tina allowed for registering one is less time than it takes for the cheque to bounce, and nobody cares about bouncing cheques being fraud here. (Cheques are a thing of the past, but still...)
In TX it seemed to be pretty easy. We never had an irate customer come in and get mad at us, and we did some pretty expensive stuff; Audi R8 and a Rover Disco come to mind. Seems like it's a done deal with very little rights to the owner.
The R8 had a bad trans ECM which was located inside the rear of the case. It cost $1400 for the part and Audi had to manufacture it and send it from Germany so it took three weeks. Until we had the labor, the parts, and the reflashing, it was a $4000 job. Customer was furious and refused to pay, even after he agreed to (and signed for) the work. He tried breaking in to steal it back, reporting it stolen, showing up with some large, italian friends. We tried to work a deal with him that didn't cause us to take a bath, but he refused. We just sat on it for a while, filed a lien, and never heard a peep from him again. Got the title, finished the repairs, sold it.... but you better believe I drove the whiz out of it for parts runs, courtesy shuttles for customers, and lunch runs before it sold.
The key in TX is the signature. You MUST have a signature from the owner approving repairs. If they don't sign and you do the repairs, THAT'S when the customer holds all of the cards. If they sign, they either pay the bill or lose their car.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
WTH... what kind of moron buys an R8 and complains about a $4K repair? I guess the type of moron that also lets the shop take it from them... strange...
In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
The more expensive the vehicle, the squeakier the owner.
californiamilleghia said:In California you do not get a title like if you just bought a car ,
You get a stack of "Lien sale papers" which allow you to apply for a title ,
and I do not think it takes off the back fees......beware !
It sounds like California is a property-tax state instead of a usage-fee state. In a usage-fee state the valid registration is needed to drive the car on public roads but you can hold on to an unregistered car for eternity.
My RX-3 was last registered in 1979, no worries.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
you can get a planned non op and pay nothing per year in California and the non op renews every year without doing anything ,
but you need to apply for it before the old registration runs out ( maybe a week or 2 leeway)
so not so bad if you apply for it.....
Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:The mechanic can't sell it unless it's in his name. All the lien paperwork should be done long before you ever fork over a dollar. From your standpoint it should be no different from buying any other car. If not, shop elsewhere.
This.
APEowner said:Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:The mechanic can't sell it unless it's in his name. All the lien paperwork should be done long before you ever fork over a dollar. From your standpoint it should be no different from buying any other car. If not, shop elsewhere.
This.
Thats why we spent $75 each (cost of lien sale) on cars that were scrap value , now they are our cars to scrap , and an angry customer cannot go to the police and say his car was stolen , we did not want the cars , we wanted the parking spaces !
I've owned 3 vehicles so far that i got the titles through mechanic's liens, but it was my employer's business doing the lien. I was just paying for all of it, since i was the one who wanted the car. It is fairly inexpensive and straightforward in Texas, but im sure a good number of states make it more trouble than it's worth. My dream would be if Texas was like some super-rusty states that stop requiring vehicle titles after 10y/o because they assume all cars are scrap metal by then anyway.. Here in Texas a lot of times the main difference between a $1000 car and a $200 car is whether the previous 1, 2, 3 owners all followed through with the title transfers. Once the title gets screwed up it basically makes a cheap car worthless because it costs a similar amount to straighten it out as the car might be worth, and that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of cars at the bottom of the price range getting stuck in legal limbo and putting poor people at disproportionate risk of getting pulled over for lack of stickers leading to a spiral of legal fees/fines that someone buying a $2000, $3000 dollar car would never be exposed to. Basically, making title transfers cost a couple hundred dollars at minimum (the sky is the limit on the top end since part of it is sales tax) ends up being a form of regressive taxation that screws up a bunch of vehicle titles and creates a bunch of negative side effects for poor people that nobody really benefits from and puts a bunch of cheap project cars in a 'bad idea' category UNLESS you can put some kind of lien on it, like a mechanic's lien.
Update: The seller does not have a title, but sent me the VIN and a copy of what he is calling a "court order to issue a title to the new buyer". It is a "Report of sale of motor vehicle" that he's filled out by hand, referencing a court case(?) between his business and the original owner. It states that he held a public sale for the required 20 days, but the "buyer" section of the document is blank – This is where my info would go, I guess.
Caution Flags
I have been trying in vain for the last few days to reach someone at the NC DMV, but every office is either a busy signal, answering machine with no option to leave a message, or directs me to call a central number where no one ever picks up. So given the fact that I'd have to go several hours out of my way for this one, on top of the flags listed above, and I think I'd better leave it alone.
Thanks to everyone for the input.
No title, no purchase.
You'll need to log in to post.
