Learn me minivans

We have had two. The first was a 98 Dodge. Not a bad van, but it did have head gasket problems that were covered under warranty. Then my son totaled it.

We replaced it with a Chevy Venture. It was, overall, a much better vehicle. Drove better, rode better, more power. In 220K miles I did have to replace the lower intake manifold gaskets, but other than that it was pretty much trouble free. My son just put it back on the road. We had to replace a control arm, repair some crash damage, and change the oil. It's going to be his DD for his 100 mile per day commute. I figure it's got another 100K in it.

If I was shopping for another, I'd be looking at GM's versions as well as the rest. They don't have the yuppie tax attached like the rest of them do.

My sister has owned a Sedona for 3-4 years now. She has 6 kids. It certainly has taken it's share of abuse, especially inside. And yet the interior has held up. I do not believe she has had any mechanical issues with it. I'm having a hard time thinking of a reason not to get a used Kia/Hyundai at this point in time. But there are definitely other good options out there as other's have mentioned.

Thanks for the additional information.

Codrus, I had drawn a similar conclusion about the Odyssey transmissions. The problems seem to have dropped way off since 2005.

Bastomatic, you're killing me man. You're supposed to tell me that I'm the exception and that the Mazda5 will be just fine with 3 kids. I think you're spot on, I'm just in denial.

My problem with the MPV is that it's getting long in the tooth now. At least the Odyssey was fresh in '06 while the MPV was at the end of its cycle. If I could get a current MPV (Mazda8) I'd do that. We love our Mazda3 and I'd be happy to own another Mazda product.

Locally the Sedonas seem to be priced pretty close to the Toyota/Honda offerings, but I'll still give it a chance. I live in a smaller market so my selection is sometimes limited.

Hoping to get out this weekend and actually drive some vans. Thanks again for all the suggestions and info.

If you're buying new, or even CPO, search nationwide and have it shipped. That's what we did with our Sedona. Local dealer wanted Sienna money for one. I found one in bumbleberkley WV that was a leftover, brand new. Paid almost $4k less than local. Cost me $400 to ship it to my door. The local dealer called me a week later to see if I was bluffing about buying out of state...that was a fun phone call.

Here's a new Sedona under $20k.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=83616&endYear=2014&modelCode1=SEDONA&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=51478376&startYear=2011&makeCode1=KIA&listingType=new&listingTypes=new&sellerTypes=b&searchRadius=0&mmt=%5BKIA%5BSEDONA%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=328571200&listingIndex=19&Log=0

I've posted this before.

tuna55 wrote:

Stealthtercel wrote: Tuna, help me out here: what's the connection between stainless steel brake lines lines and "grinding and shuddering"? I thought that was due to poor (i.e., undersized or badly designed) rotors. Also, what changed in 2011? Thanks.

From what I have heard it was due to calipers getting stuck on the rotors, never really releasing, and warping them (or leaving compound on the rotor) due to a deterioration of the brake lines. If it were my car, I would replace them, the fluid, and take a long hard look at the calipers. The van probably needs stuff like that anyway. If that didn't fix it, I would find a different rotor to fit - they are "interchangeable" in interesting ways... but I'd try the lines first.

Unfortunately the stories of people experiencing this problem within the first year of ownership of their new van makes me doubt the lines are really the problem. My understanding is that it is likely undersized rotors and maybe questionable calipers - like I said, the common fix seems to be replace the rotors and pads frequently (as needed) and lube the heck out of the moving parts when you do the brake job. Of course it also doesn't help if you (or your spouse) like to late brake all the time.

One other comment regarding the Odyssey -- I hate to use the words "sport" and minivan in the same sentence, but after driving a Sienna and an Odyssey back-to-back it was apparent that the difference in corporate philosophy on vehicle dynamics between Toyota and Honda extended even to their minivans.

So yes, driving on a mountain road in a minivan sucks, but it sucks less in an Odyssey. :)

codrus wrote: One other comment regarding the Odyssey -- I hate to use the words "sport" and minivan in the same sentence, but after driving a Sienna and an Odyssey back-to-back it was apparent that the difference in corporate philosophy on vehicle dynamics between Toyota and Honda extended even to their minivans. So yes, driving on a mountain road in a minivan sucks, but it sucks less in an Odyssey. :)

I feel the same. I recently drove a friend's 2012 Nissan van, and it feels like a school bus compared to my Odyssey. The Odyssey, somehow, drives like a tall accord. Same typical Honda understeer. It's a not awful car to drive. IIRC, either CD or GRM did some laps in one with rather amusing results.

We have an '05 Odyssey, I wanted the '05 and up body style for the revised transmission, side curtain airbags, and stability control. We bought it as a CPO in 2008, just off lease with about 35k. We looked at a lot of turds before finding the Odyssey we bought, as what some dealers try to pass off as CPO was pretty unbelievable! Some of their prices were ridiculous, too, we paid 2-3K under what other dealers were willing to let theirs go for, so it pays to shop around.

If you're looking at an Odyssey, I'd definitely recommend the extra Honda Care warranty, it saved us far more than the $900 we paid for it, and gave us some piece of mind as we were paying it off. It'll take you to 100K or 7 years from the date of initial purchase, whichever comes first.

In '07 they upgraded the transmission to the one used in the Ridgeline, which should be better. They did have a bunch of issues with the vans that go into ECO mode (run on 3 cyls) with motor mounts and transmission programming. Ours doesn't have the ECO mode.

Issues we've had: - airbag light (wiring under the driver's seat) - passenger side drive axle needed to be replaced (slid out of the transmission case 1/2" - don't ask me how) - driver's side strut - front sway bar end-links

I installed the gutter guard up front to protect the A/C condenser (vulnerable and damage is not covered by any warranty), and I drain and fill the AT fluid every 40K or so (just run it on the highway in between each one to get the torque convertor locked and fluid mixing). I perform oil changes every 4K with synthetic, and I've greased the power sliding doors once.

Brakes are definitely a weak spot, it seems like one good stop from speed and your rotors will warp. I put a set of EBC rotors and EBC pads on with the same result, and just put on a set of NAPA rotors/pads to see how those hold up.

I have a set of 16" steel wheels and Blizzaks for the winter, and it's done very well here in the Northeast. You'll want to disable the VSC in certain situations, though, because it reacts pretty aggressively to wheel spin in snow.

We've been very happy with ours, it's not bad to drive, it has a bunch of room, and most importantly my wife loves it. Minivans are very convenient when you have two or more children (we have 3).

No way on the Mazda5. Get out of denial.

The real issue is gonna be the cargo space. Have your wife take a look at the space behind the rear space. She won't be able to fit more than her purse in it. That will end this issue.

I think that will also eliminate your stick shift options.

Let's go back to your requirements...

twolittlebroncos wrote: Our budget is in the $10-20k range, but we would need financing at the top end of the range and I'd rather pay cash if possible. Really struggling to balance out my frugalness with buying a reliable people mover. Needs to last 10 years and 100,000 miles and not have its repair costs exceed its market value. Bonus points for gas mileage, safety features, stick shifts and diy repairability.

ALL minivans should be expected to last longer than 100K. That's a really low bar.

Gas mileage... they are not too good. Low 20's is normal, unless you look at some of the older units. My 1st gen Odyssey gets 27.

Safety features- largely irrelevant. Most modern vehicles do very well in this category.

That leaves your budget. I think you are discounting the importance of your frugalness. There are PLENTY of reliable people movers for WAAY under $20K. There is no reason to spend this much for reliability, convenience, mileage or safety.

Your frugalness is important to your family. It will set you up for financial success later. Which is more important, a financed newer swaggervan, or some cash to put away for your kid's educations??

I have 5 kids. We have had Suburbans, Volvo wagons, and minivans, among others. You are right to be looking for a minivan. Best tool for the job of people moving. But I would encourage you to lower your budget and further explore your inner cheapskate.

I currently have 2 minivans. I have a 2005 (2nd gen) Mazda MPV with 120K (we bought it with 15K miles on it), and a 1998 (1st gen) Honda Odyssey with 179K (my Dad has had it since it had 50K miles). We've got a combined 17 years and 235K miles of use on them, and have NEVER had a breakdown. Tires and maintenance only.

Do you need more reliability than that?

I have been hunting for 1st gen Odysseys. I'd buy 3 more right now if I could. I could buy 3 very nice ones for less than $10K total, and would expect 75K trouble free miles out of each of them.

For you, I would strongly recommend an ultra clean low mileage 2nd gen MPV below the bottom end of your price range, and a nice dinner for the wife, with a few extra dollars in the kid's college fund.

Show your wife stow-n-go, and then I dare you not to buy the Dodge.

tuna55 wrote: Show your wife stow-n-go, and then I dare you not to buy the Dodge.

Bingo! We've had three, one real issue with the first was a trans shifting problem. Fixed quickly, it was electronic and cheap. Wife wants a fourth, we just keep getting newer each time.

Stow-n-go is awesome. Every van should have it.

2nd gen MPV essentially does

Yes it does, and it rocks, but it works on the back seat only. I have to say I'm envious of the capability for second-row disappearing seats.

Odyssey has third row stow and go, and a good-sized compartment between the first and second row.

SVreX, you've given me a lot to think about. I'm moving past the Mazda5, sadly.

One of my questions would be regarding side curtain airbags and stability control. These are common safety items in the vans over $10k and not common in the earlier models. Overrated and unnecessary?

Stow 'n Go is pretty awesome, but honestly we will be content with any of the other configurations.

Still haven't been able to test drive anything. I appreciate the continued input.

Seriously, for 10k you could buy the best Astro around, swap in LSx goodness, and still have money left over.

Even without the swap, you could pay someone else to build you a 4.3 and 4l60E both with guarantees and still have $ left over.

We have a 2010 Sedona, bought new with 36k miles on it now. It's been to Hilton head twice from MA, NYC many times, and Maine in addition to everyday duty as a family hauler.

It's been used to haul kids, firewood, bicycles, and a snowmobile trailer.

So far no issues, other than a slight pulsation in the brake pedal at 8k miles. Dealer took care of it under warranty. For everyday use brakes seem adequate, but wear quickly. Dealer claims 25k interval on fronts is normal.

Keep in mind that with Kia and Hyundai unless its CPO, the warranty is only 5/60,000. Only when purchased new or CPO does the drivetrain warranty extend to 10 years/ 100,000 miles.

(On edit: added Kia and Hyundai to last paragraph for clarity)

We were in the same place about a year ago. I didn't want to even look at a Kia but the market for the Odyssey and Sienna is crazy around here (seems 15k gets you a van with over 100k miles and destroyed inside). After looking several months and reading several post on here seemed to point out the Sedona wasn't too bad.

Ended up with a 2008 Kia Sedona with 29K miles for 12k from a local dealer. We have been really happy with it so far gets 19 MPG city and 26 on highway.

Under warranty I had the dealer replace front end bushing as it was squeaking when cold.

Things that bother me: The dash needs a pad near where the key goes into the ignition. I added some Velcro on the dash and remote and no more rattles.

When the rear of the van is higher than the front about 20 degree decline the power doors only open about 75 percent of the way as designed.

I often spin tires on take off, drive by wire isn't for me. My wife doesn't have any problem.

You won't find side curtain airbags in older vans. I'd look hard at the research regarding their effectiveness for children in minivans before making my desicions based on that.

I am not familiar with the facts, but my gut questions their effectiveness with kids.

An adult seated in the front seat is inches away from the glass. A child in the rear or center is a long way from the glass. I'm thinking their greatest risk is flying around he cabin, not hitting the glass (therefore greater emphasis on proper child seats), but I am willing to be proven wrong on this.

My 99 Venture had side airbags. They might have been an option back then though.

If you look at Odysseys with more than 60k miles, have the engine mounts looked at by a mechanic familar with this model.

oldopelguy wrote: Seriously, for 10k you could buy the best Astro around, swap in LSx goodness, and still have money left over. Even without the swap, you could pay someone else to build you a 4.3 and 4l60E both with guarantees and still have $ left over.

Astros are terrible at side impacts.

twolittlebroncos wrote: One of my questions would be regarding side curtain airbags and stability control. Overrated and unnecessary?

No and no. For a minivan meant to haul your kids around, they are a huge bonus. I've looked at dozens of crashed cars every day for the past 15 years, so pardon me for getting on a tiny soapbox.... Stability control is very helpful, especially on a tall and top heavy vehicle, so are the airbags. Remember airbags are part of SRS, i.e. supplemental restraint system. I've seen too many people who seem to think airbags replace seatbelts. They don't. OK, off my soapbox now.

Yes, your kids will be far enough away from the side of the van that most impacts won't result in hitting the side glass. However, the side airbag will provide extra cushion in case of a heavy impact. Also provides good protection from broken glass or other debris entering the vehicle.

Not to harp on the Sedona, but I'm biased since I own one. It comes standard with stability control and side airbags. It did very well in crash tests, and every one that I've seen wrecked (and I've seen plenty) has held up quite well. It does have a lot of cheap plastic in the dash, but hey, it's a cheap van. Also, you'll be surprised how much power it has, especially off the line. Fuel mileage is so-so, we average 19-20mpg.

Stow N Go from Chrysler is cool, but most minivans have something similar. Our 3rd row folds flat into the floor. It's not as slick as other designs, but it's fully functional...and very useful.