Learn Me Some Ice Racing

So, going to school in upstate NY, there is a LOT of ice racing around.

I want to get out this year and give some races a try, it looks like great fun. The season is a little ways off, but I want to rack your brains for all the info I can get before diving in head first.

The first thing I would like to know about is car setup.

I will be running some sort of street legal class, meaning no studs and no fancy ice racing tires, just plain old winters. The car in question is a 1990 civic. I have koni shocks, a 24mm rear bar, and a plethora of different front bars to choose from. I also have some ground control coilover sleeves I may put on the car.

Anyone know what sort of spring rates work well? Alignment settings? Ride height? Should I lose the rear/front bar? Anything?

Really any sort of ice racing info, advice, or even just awesome pictures/videos would be appreciated here :)

Get in touch with Mike, username iceracer here. Or have a look at the AMEC forums for more info.

are you looking to go wheel to wheel ice racing or just running like an ice auto-x?

Generally from my limited experience it seems that soft works better.. you want lean/bite.

I will be doing snow/ice rallycross as well, but I'm specifically asking about the wheel to wheel stuff, such as what AMEC offers.

Every club is different

fidelity101 wrote: Every club is different

In respect to what?

wrongwheeldrive wrote: ...just plain old winters. The car in question is a 1990 civic. I have koni shocks, a 24mm rear bar, and a plethora of different front bars to choose from. I also have some ground control coilover sleeves I may put on the car. Anyone know what sort of spring rates work well? Alignment settings? Ride height? Should I lose the rear/front bar? Anything?

The biggest problem I have on ice with my Saturn is there just isn't enough weight on the drive tires with the open differential. I just can't accelerate at all. The Michelin X-Ices on it also suck on ice.

Your Civic is likely even lighter on the front end. Normal more front-heavy FWDs do better. I would pick a different car. I would go soft springs, no front bar, and keep a big rear bar to give the front as much traction as possible.

I am the chief steward of the Adirondack Motors Enthusiasts Club (AMEC). www.icerace.com. so i can answere most of your questions. The 2013 rules are posted on the web site. We actually have four Street Legal class since we recently introduced a street studded class using the Haka--7 as a spec tire. To answer some of your questions: Sway bars, most disconnect if possible. Stock suspension seems to work the best. You can play around with alignment and tire pressures. Warning, lower pressures is not the answer. Again, ask away.

wrongwheeldrive wrote:

fidelity101 wrote: Every club is different

In respect to what?

Style, as in point to point or wheel to wheel

rules for safety and car classing,

IE novice, studs, studless

I run with these guys: http://www.michiganiceracing.com/

I've played around with rubber on ice I like 16" wheels with a 55 sidewall a little wider than your average snow tire. There is no deep snow you are having to plow through so you can run a little wider tire with a smaller sidewall.

AMEC uses a road course type track In SL, stock belts and a Snell 2000 helmet are required. A strict NO CONTACT rule in the SL classes. We have banned over agressive drivers. In the non studded class, wider seems to work better since most racing is on very little snow.

I run in the Central NY Ice Racing Association (cnyira.com). Most lakes we run at are the smaller ones around the finger lakes region. Biggest difference between CNY and AMEC is that CNY's street legal class allows studded snow tires. Not spikes, mind you, just regular street legal studs.

I run a stock crx and definitely feel like its lacking bite due to how little weight there is over the drive tires. As for setup, soft is good, no need for stiff springs or possibly even your sway bar. You want to be able to get the back end out when you need to, but if you're always chasing it, all you'll do is spin. I would suggest getting out there and seeing how the car reacts, then decided which direction you need to go.

iceracer wrote: AMEC uses a road course type track In SL, stock belts and a Snell 2000 helmet are required. A strict NO CONTACT rule in the SL classes. We have banned over agressive drivers. In the non studded class, wider seems to work better since most racing is on very little snow.

Does AMEC allow adjustable brake proportioning valves?

I planned on running the civic just because that is what I already have, and living in an on campus apartment I have no place to put a second car, otherwise I would be looking for a neon or saturn.

From the sound of it I should refrain from putting my coilover sleeves + stiff springs in until spring, and just rock the stock springs for rallyX/ice racing. I had a feeling I should keep the rear bar, and loosing the front one altogether makes sense for ice.

For tires I already have some 185 width general artimax's on 14 inch wheels, as much as I'd like to go wider, I would rather work with what I already have(unless this is a horrible ice racing tire, I know they are pretty good in the dirt/snow for rallyX).

I don't expect to go out and win races right away, I just want to better my driving skills and have a fun, safe time doing it, so I'd like to keep spending to a minimum.

I have a 4 point schroth rallye harness that I have been using for autoX, is that OK for AMEC? Or do I have to use the crappy auto belt that throws me around in the car? I have a snell helmet already, and I know I need to get a fire extinguisher. Is there anything else that I will need for the street legal class? Or anything you highly recommend? I saw something about spill blankets.

I look forwards to meeting you at some events this winter, Mike!

Edit: hope to meet you as well James, I am in Rochester so I plan on making it out to some CNYIRA events as well. I too have a CRX(nowhere near stock), and I'd love to see what a fellow EF driver can do on the slippery stuff!

For ice racing and rallyX I would stay away from coilovers, stock suspension is fine, maybe even see some OEM parts that might be able to swap over for cheap junkyard finds that will aid your application.

Your tires will be fine, just stick with what you got and save your money for gas, food and entry fees, I've actually heard very good things on the general tire for ice, very popular amongst the rallycross and SL class guys.

Hmm, has anybody ever seen a cb7 accord ice race? I'm friends with wrongwheeldrive and we were planning on codriving my car in the upcoming rallyx's, but we may not want to(or be able to, still need to read the rules, please excuse me if it's covered there.) for ice racing.

I know rallyx can be kinda tough on cars, but how is ice racing?(barring something bad/unforeseen happening) just general wear and tear?

If any of you locals know of something that would make a decent winter ride and rallyx/ice racer for sale in the 1k-1500$ range, I'm all ears.

I think the accord would be fine. Whether it is competitive or not would be in question. If the goal is to have fun on the cheap, then go for it. It's more about putting a smile on your face. My opinion is that the ice is less abusive than rallyx, so long as you are talking about lake based ice as opposed to a wintercross event that could be a mix of snow and ice in a field or parking lot.

Snow accumulates in places and freezes as massive solid ice chunks. Ice racing if wheel to wheel risks dents and dings and if you are over aggressive you can get high centered in snow banks, and depending on the weather conditions of the season those snow banks can become bricks of ice...

Focus your attention on the heater and defroster.

I figured that anything roadworthy would be alright and entertaining. I keep being harassed to buy a purple neon though.

Like he said, we're both new to this, so being competitive isn't a main concern.

Heater and defroster are in good working order!

Run with it, until you find you don't like it (the car). It should give you a better idea of what would be ideal for the task after you have some seat time under your belt.

Copper280z wrote: I keep being harassed to buy a purple neon though.

http://rochester.craigslist.org/cto/3319587216.html

Someone convice Copper that this is a good idea so I can rallyX the E36 M3 out of it this winter with him

Woody wrote: Focus your attention on the heater and defroster.

Yeah make sure that works, otherwise its brutal and foggy

I think cheap and common are the key to ice racing. You want to be able to make a parts run to NAPA-by-the-Lake if you break something.

The Neon wouldn't be a bad choice.

Has anyone had any experience with a welded diff for ice racing by chance.

I have a factory clutch LSD and I've been thinking of getting a spare diff to weld because last winter I was only able to do about 1-2 miles of racing until the clutches heated up to the point where it was 1 wheel peel.

wrongwheeldrive wrote:

Copper280z wrote: I keep being harassed to buy a purple neon though.

http://rochester.craigslist.org/cto/3319587216.html Someone convice Copper that this is a good idea so I can rallyX the E36 M3 out of it this winter with him

It lacks......character...