Learn me something else...

As a warning ahead of time... this is more idle curiousity. I'll be upfront and say that out of the GRM Trifecta, the only two that interest me are the Miata and the E30, and the E30 vastly more so. (Unless the Miata has huge bolt on fender flares)

HOWEVER, it's near impossible to find a nice E30 in my area, even though i'm not really looking at the moment.

What DOES seem to pop up from time to time are nice E21s.

Are these cars to shy away from? Specifically the 4-cylinder variants. It seems the 320i pops up a lot. Currently there's a "320is" on CL that's been listed for over two months now, for a VERY low price, and looks extremely clean. Needs some TLC, but i imagine nothing major.

How are parts on this thing? Aftermarket support? Power rating? Handling attributes? DD-livability? Weight? Etc...

Divulge on me anything you may know about them.

I haven't had a ton of luck finding much out about them. For instance, i've found that the Euro 320i had 125bhp, but the US version had a "downgraded engine" but can't find specs on it.

And i can't find evidence of the "320is" existing.

Not really looking to buy at the moment... just wondering just in case i find myself with an extra $600 that i don't care about.

hmmm.. where to start

the E21 is more like a bigger 2002. It weighs more and it is bigger (weighs more than the e30 actually) but with the same engine and same suspension.

So what you get is the slowest of the 3ers.. with handling that is best rooted in the 60s.

they also rust a LOT more than the e30

I can't remember if it was called a 320is or not, but there was definitely a sport model E21. It had Recaros, a sport steering wheel, mesh wheels, and I think an LSD, but no six cylinder.

If you're looking for a cool, old daily driver, I think the E21 with Euro bumpers looks great. Handling is on par with other late 70's sporty cars.

Upshot is I think an E21 would make a great DD and occasional autoxer, if you're not worried about being super-competitive.

I adored my E21s. But:

How are parts on this thing? Easy to find.

Aftermarket support? Mediocre

Power rating? Mediocre to poor.

Handling attributes? Iffy. Narrow rear track, some semi-trailing arm sketchiness, but basically good.

DD-livability? Pretty good, although the AC sucks.

Weight? Within 50 pounds of an early 4-cylinder E30, a bit lighter than the sixers.

I think the E21 is more fun on the street than an E30... more tossable, to me. It feels like a grown-up, slightly pudgier 2002.

They could really use more power (about 110 in US trim), and they rust like mad.

Wheels and tires are a problem, too. Hardly anything fits without spacers.

is SHOULD get you recaro seats, a nicer steering wheel, LSD, an air dam, nice basket-weave wheels, fog lights and a bigger toolkit in the trunk. It's hard to find an is that still has all that.

They're not bad cars, but wedged between the 2002 and the E30 they tend to get overlooked, but that does tend to make them cheap. The M10 is a great motor, but not particularly powerful in this application. The earlier 77-79 cars had some sort of electromechanical injection (K-jet?) while the later 80-83 cars got a more modern system (L-jet?), IIRC. Turbos and Megasquirt are good options, or you can just go for the M20 motor conversion, as there were Euro-only variants that got these engines from the factory. Rust is likely to be the biggest issue. If you find a solid one, strip as much weight as you can out of it, upgrade the suspension, and you'll have a fun little toy.

An E21 will weigh in around 2400 - 2600 lbs so they are lighter than most e30's. The sway bar also acts as the draglink in the front suspension and with bushing wear it creates a hard to cure steering wheel shimmy. Add to that the fact that they only came to the US with the M10 motor and they dont have alot going for them.

Personally I think they are far better looking than the 2002's or E30's. and it is supposedly easier to swap the M30 into them than the smaller M20. I want one very badly. Very small aftermarket for the chassis specific stuff as well.

They're all K-Jet

How does the M10 handle boost?

Tim Baxter wrote: I adored my E21s. But: How are parts on this thing? Easy to find. Aftermarket support? Mediocre Power rating? Mediocre to poor. Handling attributes? Iffy. Narrow rear track, some semi-trailing arm sketchiness, but basically good. DD-livability? Pretty good, although the AC sucks. Weight? Within 50 pounds of an early 4-cylinder E30, a bit lighter than the sixers. I think the E21 is more fun on the street than an E30... more tossable, to me. It feels like a grown-up, slightly pudgier 2002. They could really use more power (about 110 in US trim), and they rust like mad. Wheels and tires are a problem, too. Hardly anything fits without spacers. is SHOULD get you recaro seats, a nicer steering wheel, LSD, an air dam, nice basket-weave wheels, fog lights and a bigger toolkit in the trunk. It's hard to find an is that still has all that.

Ok... well it DOES have all of that.

And no body damage. A clean interior. And VERY minor rust over one rear wheelwell. Did i mention it was black, had 127k miles, and is selling for $680?

Xceler8x wrote: How does the M10 handle boost?

Like Bees handle honey. Remember, the M10 block formed the basis of BMWs formula 1 efforts around that time. They can take a lot of boost. BMW even did it for you (2002 Turbo)

93celicaGT2 wrote: Ok... well it DOES have all of that. And no body damage. A clean interior. And VERY minor rust over one rear wheelwell. Did i mention it was black, had 127k miles, and is selling for $680?

Buy that. Yesterday.

Needs at least: Battery, clutch master cylinder, and brake master cylinder. Seller says engine runs fine.

If I could find a more-or-less rust free 320is for under a grand, I would have bought it already.

Tim Baxter wrote: If I could find a more-or-less rust free 320is for under a grand, I would have bought it already.

You guys aren't helping my situation much....

One more "rhetorical" question before i call this dude..

What's an ideal size wheel, with what bolt pattern and offset for this thing? I'm less than happy with stock size tire selection for the stock 13x5.5" wheel.

And uhmmm.... HOLY CRAP.

http://www.davidmcintyre.org/the320.html

There isn't an ideal wheel. The bolt pattern is easy. It's that 13mm offset that kills you. Most people end up running spacers, and then they can take their pick of all sorts of wheels. Be forewarned though, E21s are notorious for front-end shimmy, and if the wheels are out of balance or round, you're hosed. Spacers make it that much harder to make sure it's all good.

I got one for free a couple years back. It was purple, had a broken out driver side window, and the rear suspension crossmember was ripped from the body on one side. It drove me home after filling up a tire or two and a jump start.

There's a message board for these things. It helped me source a window, seatbelt, external fuel pump, and a set of shocks for the rear (one of them was damaged with whatever ripped the crossmember loose).

Mine had been wrecked in front and a new radiator support had been welded back on. The interior was ratty and...it was purple. It was a low value car.

What led me to sell it was that I was having injection issues. Apparently the systems work ok when they're kept in spec. It seemed to me that keeping up with the fuel system maintenance was going to be cost prohibitive. So I sold it. This one wasn't too rusty (it had a Washington State title), but was otherwise fubar enough to relegate it to beater-car-only status.

I'd have another one, But I'd rather have an E30, by reputation alone.

Now, a clean (like ZERO rust), straight E21 with a missing/broken engine, prime for a domestic V8 swap... That, I could get real excited about.

Clem

Tim Baxter wrote: There isn't an ideal wheel. The bolt pattern is easy. It's that 13mm offset that kills you. Most people end up running spacers, and then they can take their pick of all sorts of wheels. Be forewarned though, E21s are notorious for front-end shimmy, and if the wheels are out of balance or round, you're hosed. Spacers make it that much harder to make sure it's all good.

The shimmy... you mentioned it, and someone else mentioned it before. Is this something that if it's present, i'm going to rip what little hair i usually have out trying to remedy?

I'm not too keen on completely ripping apart another suspension.... i've done two in the last two months and really don't feel the need to do another.

Probably. There's a lot of different ideas on what causes it. Personally, I think they're just really sensitive, particuarly to wheel/tire combos. That said, mine never had it.

Tim Baxter wrote: Probably. There's a lot of different ideas on what causes it. Personally, I think they're just really sensitive, particuarly to wheel/tire combos. That said, mine never had it.

This would all be a lot easier if the car was driveable in current state...

Probably going to pass, but he's on the way home for me, so i'll stop off and check it out this week for giggles. It's certainly not going anywhere anytime soon. He's had it listed for months, originally was asking $2k, and it drops every week or so. I'm sure i could probably get it for $500 if i care enough.

psteav wrote: I can't remember if it was called a 320is or not, but there was definitely a sport model E21. It had Recaros, a sport steering wheel, mesh wheels, and I think an LSD, but no six cylinder.

The six cylinder car was a 323i. They were never officially sold in the US but there are some grey market cars around. A friend of mine has one, with a later 2.7 engine out of an e30 (eta bottom end with iS top end), it's pretty peppy.

Got a response back:

Hi, The most recent date the car was started was 12-30-09. the car does runs OK, currently though it needs a hot battery and a bit of gas since I haven't been able to drive it. I'm sure a quick tune-up would be in order also (plugs, oil change, etc). I spoke with a BMW technician and he suggested the brake/clutch problem could be as simple as bleeding the lines for fluid, since both the brake and clutch share a reservoir. There is no pedal feel in either, both pedals go to the floor. He also said if that was not a solution, the brake master cylinder and clutch cylinder would most likely need to be replaced. Also the outer seal around the windshield is old and needs replaced. I've recently got the gear shift-linkage repaired at the BMW dealership. If you're still interested please let me know, I also have a clear title in hand. If you have any other question please let me know. Thanks

He sent me pics, too. Looks REALLY clean, minus 3 things. Some surface rust on the front lower dam. Front driver's corner is cracked, and the rear bumper has some rust bubbles on it. Body itself is straight, dent free, and rust free. Interior is in good shape, not quite amazing, but very good. Minor wear in the driver's seat, everything else looks like it would clean up perfectly.

It has 128k miles on it.