In reply to infinitenexus :
Unless this Saab has recently arrived there, I can't see Minneapolis being a better climate to choose from over Cleveland.
Head south young man!
In reply to infinitenexus :
Unless this Saab has recently arrived there, I can't see Minneapolis being a better climate to choose from over Cleveland.
Head south young man!
In reply to John Welsh :
I'm realizing just how hard Cleveland is on cars when I look around northern PA/southern NY and all the cars are in significantly better shape there than in Cleveland. I figure anything within a 3 hour drive is reasonable, though I guess a bit further for a better deal makes perfect sense
Someone did suggest to tow a challenge civic north to charge $3k for it to someone in Cleveland... without a welder being included
So, Pennsylvania has annual vehicle inspections. They will fail vehicles for too much rust. Hoopties tend to not stay on the road as long in PA as they do in Ohio. It's not to say that these rusty cars aren't on the road, they just aren't on PA roads (or in PA driveways.)
These PA cars end up at Ohio auctions and are bought by Ohio dealers to sell to Ohioans. Look into the Youngstown, OH Craig's (border of PA) and you might see lots of them.
I would expect the rust actually gets worse as you go east on Lake Erie. I know the snow gets deeper that way. Places like Erie, PA and Buffalo, NY
Read up on the phenomenon known as Lake Effect Snow. Come winter, this is a term you will hear used daily by Cleveland weather forcasters. Try to shop outside those zones.
How can I word this - is there a distance from Cleveland where the rust issue gets noticeably better? Or is this simply a case of "go somewhere where it doesn't snow and you'll see less rust"?
I used to go to the salvage auction in Lorain. The cars there seem to arrive from all of northern Ohio from Toledo to Ashtabula.
I pay attention to clues like a dealership sticker on the back or oil change sticker to see where the car might have lived. Cars from Toledo have less rust than cars from Lake County and Geauga County (east of Cleveland.) I have personally sworn to never again buy a car from Lake County (Mentor, OH). Two really bad experiences were enough.
Cars from Columbus, OH are even noticeably cleaner!
infinitenexus said:How can I word this - is there a distance from Cleveland where the rust issue gets noticeably better? Or is this simply a case of "go somewhere where it doesn't snow and you'll see less rust"?
Simple answer to complex question: 2 hours south, east or west making sure not to travel north. The farther the better but you will see noticeable improvements in 2 hours (120 miles)
Sample https://youngstown.craigslist.org/cto/d/grove-city-2005-hyundai-elantra/7297427920.html
My guess is PA won't let this car stay on the road but you would see it every day in Ohio
infinitenexus said:How can I word this - is there a distance from Cleveland where the rust issue gets noticeably better? Or is this simply a case of "go somewhere where it doesn't snow and you'll see less rust"?
In general, the less frequently it snows, the less salt. A foot of snow once every 3 weeks leads to far less salt than when it snows an inch every day for weeks on end.
If your wondering why so much salt in Cleveland, it is because it it is mined in Cleveland. Really, this is where the stuff originates from.
They pull it out from under Lake Erie, which seems odd knowing that Lake Erie is not salt water
http://www.rockthelake.com/buzz/2017/12/cargill-salt-mine-cleveland/
In reply to John Welsh :
There are salt mines under Detroit and one at Goderich, Ontario. Eons ago this whole area was a salt water sea. Lake Huron and Lake Erie sit on top of huge salt deposits.
A BMW 535xi 6MT wagon warms my heart, but like the Audi allroad, that car is one of BMW's most unreliable cars ever. And when stuff breaks on it, it's really, really expensive stuff that makes the car a paperweight. Things like injectors, fuel pumps, turbos, the rear hatch leaks water directly onto the DME's, etc, etc, etc.
I looked into them a few times because I'm a sucker for a turbo'd, 6MT wagon and I had to reluctantly pass on them. They're just not a car to own without a warranty and another car in the driveway to use while it's getting worked on.
That's pretty fascinating, I had no clue. I pushed the center of my search down south to Columbus and the quality and prices of the cars have definitely improved. Also interesting how the difference of one day can make in terms of car selection.
I've found several Audi A4s, Volvos, and even some BMWs for $3K and less (some for challenge prices!) all with manual transmissions. I think in a few months when I start seriously searching, I'll easily be able to find an awesome, GRM-approved daily driver for pennies. Honestly I'll probably find something before then but I'm trying to focus on just saving for now.
infinitenexus said:That's definitely something I've noticed. Cleveland can rot nearly anything - the amount of rust I've seen on surprisingly new cars is shocking. American trucks seem to get it the worst. However, I have not seen any rust on any Volvos yet (or any 944s, for that matter). Just found a 1996 Volvo 850 with a 5 speed for $2800. I would probably be down with that, although I guess I need to hop over and check the swede speed forums to see what all I can do with it. Okaayyyyyy, I guess it doesn't have to be a wagon, although I would prefer one. I'll take a sedan. Fortunately I have a couple months before I officially start my search.
You don't see rust on 944s because they have galvanized bodies, other than a few of the earliest years. When I bought my 924S (Also galvanized) It had literally been sitting for 2 years with a foot of water in the floorboards. Not a speck of rust, other than a few suspension components and a battery tray where the acid had eaten it away.
In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :
Yeah Volvos and 944s are the only cars I've seen so far that pretty much universally are rust free. American trucks seem to get it the worst. 10 years max and a lot of them are rusted to the point of being scrap. German cars seem to fare better than most here, although I've definitely seen plenty of BMWs with some heavy rot. It's definitely something I'm taking into consideration.
Galvanized bodies go a long way, but if there are any spots in the design that trap salt and water, those spots will still rust. It happens to BMWs, and even my galvanized Jeep has a few spots that are rust prone. It's weird to see, as you'll have one spot rotted to bits, but you look at the floorpans and everything else around that area and it's all pristine.
infinitenexus said:In reply to Old_Town :
That's a pretty attractive car. It's nice to see there's some nice options as long as I get away from Cleveland. Who knows, maybe I can turn this into a little road trip when the time comes!
I could put eyes on that saab if needed
In reply to 1kris06 :
I appreciate the offer very much! It's a bit more than I'd like to spend, and I still have a month or two before I told myself I would buy. Trying to pay off an old debt first, another couple paychecks should do it. You guys are awesome though
John Welsh said:In reply to infinitenexus :
Unless this Saab has recently arrived there, I can't see Minneapolis being a better climate to choose from over Cleveland.
Head south young man!
At my previous job, the owner imported a 10 year old Sierra from Minneapolis. It was spotlessly clean underneath. We put it up on a lift and were just standing there marveling at the brake and fuel lines that looked new, zero corrosion on the brake backing plates, etc.
He paid, IIRC, $8k plus shipping for an extended cab Z71 with the 4.8.
iannelli autocars in North Ridgeville has an 850 sedan and an early V70 wagon (doesn't appear to be an R) out front on their lot. Neither are on their website. ianelli is a "premium" used car lot dealing in high quality, more esoteric vehicles.
Website also still shows the Fiesta, that hasn't been out front for a long time, so either they moved it indoors or they do not update their website very often.
In my experience in upstate NY, Volvos and Audis have done the best at repelling rust. However, the V50 is as much a Ford as it is Volvo, and definitely rusts way worse than the P2 chassis. The V50 AWD sounds really tempting, but I would steer clear of it because almost the entire rear end is unique, and the parts cost something like 4x the 2WD parts -- I'm talking rear struts, strut mounts, and some of the suspension arms. Also, the AWD systems seem to never work -- unless you can verify it on a test drive, expect to do a Haldex fluid and pump change, and then maybe also get the electronic control unit rebuilt. The haldex fluid / pump service is a PITA, the system was clearly designed to never be serviced. With the mileage that these cars are reaching, I would expect some fairly major parts expenses right away. The one I encountered also developed an abrupt low oil pressure condition, which was when we sold it without diagnosis. Apparently it's a known issue with that engine. On the other hand, I've raced an S60 including doing a clutch change in 4hrs, and pulled one to pieces for it's engine and transmission. I was super impressed with all of them. The build quality on *everything* is fantastic (okay, except the DBW throttle bodies, those suck). My biggest complaint is it's just MacPherson struts in the front, so they're not the best performing cars, but if you're just driving on the street I'd have a FWD T5 manual V70.
I'm actually way more enthusiastic about the 2.7TT Allroad / A6 platform, because the only real unreliability the Allroad adds is the air suspension, which is solved by converting to coilovers. The transmissions are incredibly stout, they don't particularly rust, and the turbos have been known to last a long time. The front suspension does have 4 links per corner, but so do the A4s. They last long enough, parts aren't too bad as a kit, and the driving benefits are worth it IMO. The timing belt is more complex than a 1.8T engine, but the car is at least designed to let you get to it. The turbos are basically the only major "problem" with that drivetrain, and some of them are known to last to 200k. The best way to rationalize owning one of these is to buy a cheaper example and maintain a fund to do a full engine out service at some point. When it happens, replace everything, and engine for another 100k. Note that I haven't owned one or worked on one yet, but they're near the top of my list for a next vehicle.
We've also had a number of Subaru Outbacks, including a 2005 XT, and I would recommend staying away from the turbo ones at least. I love the NA Outbacks, but they definitely do not offer a European wagon equivalent experience, and the turbo 2.5 is just not worth it in a DD. Our XT exploded the center diff. Maybe it's different in Ohio, but in the Northeast, turbo Subarus seem to be pretty overpriced, and a lot of them have been thrashed within an inch of their lives. The 2.5 Turbo also has some issues to be generally aware of, a lot of them have small thimble sized filters on the line to the turbo charger that no body remembers to clean until they blow the turbo, which then leaves bits in the pan which take out the bottom end shortly thereafter. It's not uncommon to see listings for cars with "new turbo, but blown engine (or other descriptions of "blown short block"). The good news is that they don't blow headgaskets like the NA ones are reputed to (because the turbo gaskets are MLS, use them on an NA engine and they have the same reliability).
I know it's not European but how about a Hyundai Elantra Touring?
infinitenexus said:That's pretty fascinating, I had no clue. I pushed the center of my search down south to Columbus and the quality and prices of the cars have definitely improved. Also interesting how the difference of one day can make in terms of car selection.
I've found several Audi A4s, Volvos, and even some BMWs for $3K and less (some for challenge prices!) all with manual transmissions. I think in a few months when I start seriously searching, I'll easily be able to find an awesome, GRM-approved daily driver for pennies. Honestly I'll probably find something before then but I'm trying to focus on just saving for now.
The difference in vehicle quality between Cleveland and Columbus is quite astonishing.
You should see the stuff Evan drags home from auction now and then. Well, you might not appreciate it, but I'm always like "woah, clean 240!"
Well, except that one.
In reply to MrRobogoat (Forum Supporter) :
Yeah, totally disagree with you about the allroad. Those turbos do not last a long time, everything in the engine bay is plastic and at this point will be brittle and broken. The air suspension is a huge problem, and they're old and have a ton of miles on them. These are cars for people who know them well, are willing to work on them and have alternate transportation to use when they're sitting there broken.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/376144223775906/
This is the one you want. It's a match of mine and seriously a fantastic car. Last week a dude in a very nice Mercedes followed me into a parking lot just to ask me about it, why it sounded so good, and how had I managed to blow his doors off at the last light (along with a hemi charger). Very comfortable, tons of space, quick enough to raw time a factory five cobra at an autocross.
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