Learn me: Street/Track Day pads for FoRS...and BIG BERKIN WANG

HAAAAAAAAY! I tracked the F0RS at AMP this weekend and LOVED_IT. It quickly became clear that I need better pads/fluid (and maybe rotors while I'm at it)

I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death, but is Hawk HPS + Motul high temp the answer? I think Mountune sells a pad/rotor combo that's not crazy expensive too(?)

Also: WHITEY WANT WINGIE!!! I feel like the car could REALLY benefit from some serious aero, especially in the carousel/14-16 complex.

Saw a FIST out there saturday. Forgot to ask the owner (Matt?) where he got this

I've reached out to this dude on insty a couple times with no response

There was a company called "BM SPEC" making wicked stuff, but apparently they're no longer around.

PS: The Volks look WICKED on the car. Currently wrapped in r888r's which I don't hate but don't love. Swapping to PS4's (I think) and keeping the DWS's on the factory 19's for winter...I think.

My buddy makes fiberglass wings that are a nice profile.  He is an engineer associated with the aerospace industry.

It is wingman wings.  Check him out.

I hit the wall at Charlotte and totalled my car.  The wing took a direct lateral hit and bent the other side of the car where the opposite wing mount was.  Wing came off the car and went back on the new car.

Seriously strong.  Fairly inexpensive for a legit wing, and custom stuff is no problem.

https://m.facebook.com/WingmenAero/

I have a Wingmen wing on my 318ti, and love it. It makes real downforce at a low drag penalty, and made the car measureably and repeatably faster. I chose it for the lower price point than the 9Lives Racing pieces.

How much track stuff are you going to do, how serious, etc? (and how undersized are the brakes?) I'd call the HPS5.0 (not the old original HPS...those are barely useful for street driving let alone track use) the absolute bare minimum, but you can do a lot better, especially if you're willing to give up some street manners. I'm a big fan of porterfield R4S as a track capable street pad, but even they're a bit on the weak side for serious track use, especially if you've got a less than ideal brake system.

The thing about wings is that they need air on both sides of them to work...a wing placed half an inch above the bodywork isn't much different than a very small angle of attack spoiler. Which is not to say not to do it, but if you're going to do it, actually put it up in the clean air, not as an exptension of the stock spoiler like on that fiesta. I would also recommend looking at the wingmen aero stuff.

Hawk HPS are street pads and so are the Hawk HP+.  There really isn't a track/street pad, there are either street pads, which are quiet, stop when cold and don't eat your rotors, but fade at the track, or track pads, which don't fade at the track but eat your rotors, don't stop great when cold and make the car sound like a garbage truck.

The closest pad I've ever used to working at both are the Ferodo DS2500's.  Don't do a wing, they look ridiculous and add no real performance.

THANKS! I hope to do track days and/or autox at least once a month. The car deserves it.

No competitive stuff on track. Just beating my own lap times at AMP.

The “RDU” cutout won’t handle more than about 15 laps on track anyway. It’s on the Hong Norr Racing engineers’ list to “fix” that; at least tricking the car into not going into 2WD/limp mode.

I missed you by a couple weeks at AMP - assuming you running with Jzilla?  For fluid, Motul 600 is plenty good enough for me and HPDE in my limited experience as long as you change it frequently as it will discolor but i've yet to boil it at AMP or RA.  To me 660 or SRF is just $$$, maybe if i had a fancier car...or was faster...or both.  Track pads, I just switched to Powerstop track day pads because they're cheap and supposed to have good bite.  Indeed they do as they engage the ABS way more easily than the stock Ferrodos but i'm on stock rubber.  I find i'm able to brake more with less effort which is nice.  I'd like to step up to some super aggressive Hawks next but i'm doing this in baby steps.  For the Powerstops, I do like the bite, no fade, cheap, but dust...holy mother of dust do they dust a lot of dust.  Did I mention they dust?

Haven't driven the FoRS but I have tracked my GTI amd I would recommend going with HP+ for trackday usage rather than HPS. The HP+ has a much more linear progression and handles the heat better. If you make the jump from HP+ to the DTCs then you'll need a street pad to drive up and back on, the DTCs are not great cold and will chew up your rotors and all the while you'll sound like an old garbage truck. 

In summary, HP+ as an all-rounder or HPS for street and a DTC for track. 

the RS uses the brakes for everything, step up to a real pad with modulation.

Call Carbotech or G-Loc for pads with better thermal ranges.

 

spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said:

the RS uses the brakes for everything, step up to a real pad with modulation.

Call Carbotech or G-Loc for pads with better thermal ranges.

That's kind of what I figured but didn't know for sure. In that case the best method is probably to just have a street set and a track set and swap them out. I have HPS5.0s on my fiesta st and they were good for about 3.5 laps on track...luckily the cooling system was only good for 3 laps so I never ran into any brake trouble. About the only hawk product I would consider anymore is the HP+, which I actually liked aside from the ridiculous noise and dust on the street, but if you're running dedicated track pads that's not an issue. But there's probably comparable or better stuff for the same money from other brands

Don't do a wing, they look ridiculous and add no real performance.

Uh, they take like 2 seconds a lap off my times at a bunch of different tracks.

spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said:

the RS uses the brakes for everything, step up to a real pad with modulation.

Call Carbotech or G-Loc for pads with better thermal ranges.

 

He has an 18 with the factory LSD, but yeah.  Mostly its a pretty heavy FWD car that has some extra drive in the rear.

I find that driving it like a hefalump causes a lot of heat related issues, driving it like you're still making payments and have to take your kids home from the track in it still makes for a ton of fun.  Just me though.

wvumtnbkr said:

Don't do a wing, they look ridiculous and add no real performance.

Uh, they take like 2 seconds a lap off my times at a bunch of different tracks.

THIS, *AND* I'm fully okay with embracing my "mid-life-ricer-boi-crisis." I really feel like getting something "up in the clean air" would help a lot in the back section before the straight.

In reply to Stefan (Forum Supporter) :

I am a hefalump. Tryin to quit. One day at a time.

poopshovel again said:

wvumtnbkr said:

Don't do a wing, they look ridiculous and add no real performance.

Uh, they take like 2 seconds a lap off my times at a bunch of different tracks.

THIS, *AND* I'm fully okay with embracing my "mid-life-ricer-boi-crisis." I really feel like getting something "up in the clean air" would help a lot in the back section before the straight.

Yeah, this is the worst take I've heard in a long time... a properly designed, installed, and adjusted wing will absolutely make the car faster. The RS wing is reportedly engineered to reduce lift at 100mph, but that's not to say an aftermarket solution isn't better. I saw similar 2-3 second lap time improvements on my low hp car, while losing 4-5 mph on the straights at Nelson Ledges, Pitt Race, and Gingerman. You'll likely want to add a splitter up front to balance the added downforce to the rear.

The Hawk 'dual purpose' pad is HP+, not the HPS.  While I haven't tried them, the HP+ have never found their way onto my list. Not only do the noise and dust reports not seem proportional to the actual level of performance, the dust is corrosive and can be difficult to remove.  There are pads that should produce similar dust and noise with better performance, and pads that should produce significantly less (non-corrosive) dust and noise with similar performance...Some of which have already been noted above.

I've heard good enough things about StopTech 309 as a bang-for-the-buck 'dual purpose' pad to try them for my own use, but won't have first-hand experience with them at track until next spring/summer...But if I were running monthly track days, I'd probably just go with separate street and track pads with 'compatible' compounds that can be used on the same set of rotors.

Since ATE TYP 200 has never let me down, I wouldn't see much benefit in the extra cost of going with Motul.  However, Motul 600 does provide a meaningful (wet and dry) boiling point increase at a not-unreasonable price.  So I wouldn't try to dissuade anybody from going that route either.

I really feel like getting something "up in the clean air" would help a lot in the back section.

Twss.

You're in or around Atlanta, no? Support your local shops! 

Go to the source of the wang gang, 9lives be the good stuff. They make real aero that makes a real difference.

https://9livesracing.com/collections/all/products/the-big-wang-kit-for-2011-2018-focus

A lot of people seemed to hate them, but I sure liked EBC yellow stuff pads for my dual duty MS3 that I beat the ever loving hell out of. 

AMP is fun, but get yourself over to Barber when you can. My favorite track in the SE so far. I'm a member at NCM if you want to come up on one of the remaining Monday member days that I'm at and get a track essentially to yourself for 8 hours. It's 350 for non-members to come as guests but I guarantee you won't get more time on track any other way. Your car might match up with the exocet pretty well for playing tag on track. 

collinskl1 said:

poopshovel again said:

wvumtnbkr said:

Don't do a wing, they look ridiculous and add no real performance.

Uh, they take like 2 seconds a lap off my times at a bunch of different tracks.

THIS, *AND* I'm fully okay with embracing my "mid-life-ricer-boi-crisis." I really feel like getting something "up in the clean air" would help a lot in the back section before the straight.

Yeah, this is the worst take I've heard in a long time... a properly designed, installed, and adjusted wing will absolutely make the car faster. The RS wing is reportedly engineered to reduce lift at 100mph, but that's not to say an aftermarket solution isn't better. I saw similar 2-3 second lap time improvements on my low hp car, while losing 4-5 mph on the straights at Nelson Ledges, Pitt Race, and Gingerman. You'll likely want to add a splitter up front to balance the added downforce to the rear.

I probably know you...  those are my tracks...

556 red rx7 with 3400 swap or, new car...  55y white rx7 with 3500 swap.  Champcar.

Big wings on race cars?  Yes.  Big wings on street cars?  No!!!  Resoundingly, NO!  Any wing that'll give proper downforce to lower your times 2 seconds on a track needs to be paired with a good sized front splitter.  The two combined destroy the street utility of the car and look ridiculous IMO. 

Go ahead and tell me about how you drove your car in 12" of winter snow 365 days a year on R compounds and it was fine, but I still won't agree.

docwyte said:

Big wings on race cars?  Yes.  Big wings on street cars?  No!!!  Resoundingly, NO!  Any wing that'll give proper downforce to lower your times 2 seconds on a track needs to be paired with a good sized front splitter.  The two combined destroy the street utility of the car and look ridiculous IMO. 

Go ahead and tell me about how you drove your car in 12" of winter snow 365 days a year on R compounds and it was fine, but I still won't agree.

Wings can be unbolted....  also, a proper spec rear wing can improve overall downforce.  Splitters can be taken off fairly easily too.

Taking 2 seconds off at a track day by adding a wing/splitter doesn't mean much if you can also still take 2 seconds off with driver improvements and no wing.

Powerstop Track Day pads are a cheap alternative to Hawk HP+ that works just as well and available through Rockauto. I've always been happy with ATE Typ 200 fluid as well and once again it is a lot more affordable than the Motul.

In reply to Driven5 :

Driving with downforce is a learning curve all its own. Your braking points all move, and you need to relearn corner speeds. Some turns that needed a brake can be done with a lift, or even flat out. But yeah, I'd recommend getting the driver to a reasonably high level before adding downforce or slicks.