Learn me: Street/Track Day pads for FoRS...and BIG BERKIN WANG

poopshovel again said:

In reply to Stefan (Forum Supporter) :

I am a hefalump. Tryin to quit. One day at a time.

Yeah, except you're "fixing" the car instead of the driver.

Fixing the driver is cheaper and lasts longer.

Jus' sayin'

docwyte said:

Big wings on race cars?  Yes.  Big wings on street cars?  No!!!  Resoundingly, NO!  Any wing that'll give proper downforce to lower your times 2 seconds on a track needs to be paired with a good sized front splitter.  The two combined destroy the street utility of the car and look ridiculous IMO. 

Go ahead and tell me about how you drove your car in 12" of winter snow 365 days a year on R compounds and it was fine, but I still won't agree.

What if it's a street car and a race car? 

Personally I don't like massive wings on street cars either, but if it gets tracked it gets a pass from me. 

Tough crowd tonight.

Another vote for Porterfield R4 pads here. Decent on the street and won't melt down at the track. They only lasted about 4 track days on my GTI though. 

In reply to Catatafish :

Hey, even if it never gets tracked, that's another cheap wang for sale down the road.

The idea of adding aero before going to dedicated track pads/wheels/tires does not compute for me.  The potential improvements that would come from the aero would be greatly mitigated by not optimizing grip/braking first.

In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :

We're all pointlessly driving in circles dumping money into doing something that has zero return and makes no sense, yet this is our hill to die on? You want a wang to get excited visually about your car? Get 'er done. I do love the look of them on hatches with the wing bracing. I'll be getting a 9LR wang on the track miata when I VVT swap it - super stoked about it. 

To be clear: for my personal approach I'm in the "Leave things alone and work on the driver" camp, but I understand why some people like to go at it differently/enjoy modifying their cars. 

Driven5 said:

The Hawk 'dual purpose' pad is HP+, not the HPS.  While I haven't tried them, the HP+ have never found their way onto my list. Not only do the noise and dust reports not seem proportional to the actual level of performance, the dust is corrosive and can be difficult to remove.  There are pads that should produce similar dust and noise with better performance, and pads that should produce significantly less (non-corrosive) dust and noise with similar performance...Some of which have already been noted above.

I've heard good enough things about StopTech 309 as a bang-for-the-buck 'dual purpose' pad to try them for my own use, but won't have first-hand experience with them at track until next spring/summer...But if I were running monthly track days, I'd probably just go with separate street and track pads with 'compatible' compounds that can be used on the same set of rotors.

Since ATE TYP 200 has never let me down, I wouldn't see much benefit in the extra cost of going with Motul.  However, Motul 600 does provide a meaningful (wet and dry) boiling point increase at a not-unreasonable price.  So I wouldn't try to dissuade anybody from going that route either.

Huh. I didn't realize that the HP+ dust was corrosive.  Not challenging you, but if you have a source I'd like to read up on that.  I need pads for the WRX soon.

For what it's worth, I ran the HP+ on my old Integra at track days and they held up great. Zero fade, but it's a much lighter car.  Definitely felt like a good dual-purpose pad for that car.  I can't say I noticed the dust hurting the rims or anything else.

On our Lemons E36 328 we run the Hawk Blues and I'm happy with them as well. We can get through a whole 24hr event on a set at CMP and have enough left over to drive around a bit.  Our car is still plated & registered so we end up driving with the pads on the street.  They're noisy as hell, but stop acceptably for street driving when cold.  

Agreed on the ATE 200 fluid. We also run that at Lemons with no issues or bleeding in the middle of a race.  Great stuff for the price.

EDIT - for the record I agree with Accordionfolder's post above. If the man loves big wangs who are we to judge?

Thanks, all.

PS4's should show up today. I definitely like the *idea* of porterfields. Need to get something before the next outing.

I'm a member at AMP, and my bro and I run the Petty Miata, "Reece Bobby" E30, and the $2000 Challenge V there frequently.

Obviously I'm always trying to fix the "nut behind the wheel" but the carousel/15/16 kinda is what it berkeleyin is. 
 

Saturday was interesting as my buddy Chris had just completed the Primal racing school, and helped me REALLY shave off some time by adjust my line slightly...which = higher entry speeds...which = adjusting braking points.

This WANG wasn't #hellafunctional either, but got us a cover shot & an article, so suck it, haterzzzzzz <kisses>
 

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/aerodynamics-presented-nine-lives-racing/nine-lives-racing-medium-downforce-kit-install-on-/172187/page1/

Relevant to our discussion of big ol' wangs.

In reply to Matt B (fs) :

There is a lot of discussion available about it on the internet, but it's also pretty easy to understand science. Metallic pads put off (iron-based) metallic dust, in addition to the rotor wear (iron dust) from the abrasive friction. Ceramic pads don not contain iron, and and the transfer layer friction largely prevents rotor wear.

That being said, it's also going to be situationally dependent. Corrosion is a process that requires certain conditions to be met. My cars regularly seen environmental moisture and rarely see a carwash...So yeah, I'm not a good candidate for any type of aggressive metallic pads.

In reply to Driven5 :

Gotcha - you're saying it is an issue in general with metallic pads, not something especially destructive about the HP+ compound.

In reply to Matt B (fs) :

A bit of both. It's a general metallic pad issue, but HP+ are also pretty heavy on the metallic dusting

In reply to accordionfolder :

OOOOOOOH that 9lives looks like the one! Thanks!

Yep, Nine Lives is good stuff! Here's the kit for your car:

https://9livesracing.com/products/the-big-wang-kit-for-2011-2018-focus

Tom Suddard said:

Yep, Nine Lives is good stuff! Here's the kit for your car:

https://9livesracing.com/products/the-big-wang-kit-for-2011-2018-focus

 

accordionfolder said:

You're in or around Atlanta, no? Support your local shops! 

Go to the source of the wang gang, 9lives be the good stuff. They make real aero that makes a real difference.

https://9livesracing.com/collections/all/products/the-big-wang-kit-for-2011-2018-focus

A lot of people seemed to hate them, but I sure liked EBC yellow stuff pads for my dual duty MS3 that I beat the ever loving hell out of. 

AMP is fun, but get yourself over to Barber when you can. My favorite track in the SE so far. I'm a member at NCM if you want to come up on one of the remaining Monday member days that I'm at and get a track essentially to yourself for 8 hours. It's 350 for non-members to come as guests but I guarantee you won't get more time on track any other way. Your car might match up with the exocet pretty well for playing tag on track. 

Hmmmmm!?

;) 

Oops! Missed that, sorry. Trying to spread the gospel of NLR!

I wouldn't care to R&R a wing and splitter for an event, especially on a car that's basically a street car 95% of it's life.  Agreed it makes far more sense to get dedicated track wheels/R compounds/track brake pads long before delving into aero. 

If you're just going for looks, don't forget to install the undercarriage LED's!  Oh yeah, get off my lawn, lol!

For a bunch of guys who hate big wings (unless they're on miatas,) you sure are making this thread look like a hondatech thread.

poopshovel again said:

For a bunch of guys who hate big wings (unless they're on miatas,) you sure are making this thread look like a hondatech thread.

I love big wings and I cannot lie...you other brothers can't deny...

Shoot... If you're in GA do you track with JTI? We're hitting Roebling Road in a couple weekends and it's a great bunch.

If you're looking at aero before you have your pad siutation sorted, count me in the 'figure brakes out' club. As I mentioned on the previous page, I wouldn't recommend the HPS except as a better-than-AutoZone street pad. The HP+ are a significant step up while still being streetable and affordable. I have not noticed excessive noise with them, I believe that was worked out when they changed the compound in the HPS (to the 5.0) and the HP+. The new compound is also supposed to make them a little easier on rotors and a little less dusty. If you're sorting out a car and expect things to be dynamic for a while, including your long-term brake solution, I don't think a set of HP+ will do you wrong.

FWIW, I don't *recall* saying "I'M GONNA ADD A BIG berkeleyIN WANG BEFORE BRAKES"

Yeeeeeesh