learn me: Triumph TR7

So I found a TR7 here locally that's in great shape (according to pics) and quite affordable. Besides the normal tin worm problems, and lucas-quality electronics, anything to really look out for?

Thoughts?

I like these alot... The convertibles look much better than the hardtops. Buy It!!!

Other than rust and obvious broken stuff, there is nothing bad about these cars.

Engine wise, you will hate life if you ever have to delve into a rebuild. Carburators come with a learning curve and were designed during the worst of the emissions control technology development curve.

The best one on the planet probably won't fetch $5000 on the market, so you dont want to be putting more than gas money into the restoration.

The driving experience is only special if you like top-down driving. Other than that, the handling is nothing special nor better than say an Austin Marina. That said, the top is quite easy to use and the interior is comfortable enough and large enough.

http://classicmotorsports.net/articles/last-waltz/

The TR7 is considered by many to be the best Triumph from a daily driver pov. While many deride the solid rear axle, it did simplify the car. I seem to recall the engine does not take to over heating very well, so make sure the cooling system is up to snuff. The mac strut front suspension gives it a large engine bay and makes V8 swaps easier (or to create a TR8 replica). Although poo'd on by Triumph enthusiasts, the TR7 sold better than the TR6, so parts are reasonable.

Don't buy one expecting it to be a wonderful sports car, but as a fun runabout, they're pretty good. I definitely wouldn't turn down a 'vert if a decent driver came along.

I want a FHC myself.

Run Away! Run fast!

The engine is shared with some Saabs (99's I think). It is also the left side of the Stag V8. So parts aren't the hardest thing in the world to find. The engine has an Aluminum head on a steel block so if the overhead too much the head will warp. Other than that I think that they are cool little cars, and the guy I bought my Stag from had one.

My daily driver in college was a spitfire. I drove it year round for about three years. I don't remember it ever letting me down, although it usually needed something. But it was all incredibly easy, cheap and rewarding to fix. I once beat a speeding ticket by proving to the Judge that my car would not go as fast as the cop claimed I was going.

This has nothing to do with a TR7. I'm just reminiscing.

Ahhh yes, the "shape of the wedge" as the ads used to say.

It could make an interesting nice weather toy car or a starting point for an autocross fun car. I don't think you can turn one in to a killer autocross car, though. Low on power and even a V-8 in the TR-8 couldn't help.

But I do recall a test drive in one at the dealership in Jacksonville, FL followed by a drooling visit to the Brumos showroom next door to visit their 935.

Oh my . . . where to begin. (And Todd, feel free to jump on in at any time.)

There are rust spots that seem inconsequential, that need to be looked at and the car avoided if rust is found there.

The top of the windshield header. (That cheezoid add-on cover piece has me concerned right off.)

Bottoms of the rockers.

Top of the rockers (under the trim piece.)

All body seams.

Leading edge of front upper valance.

Hood.

Around the fuel filler.

Top of rear valance.

Shock/strut towers.

Under battery and brake master.

Forward frame rails.

Under seats.

Rear floor metal behind seats.

Door thresholds or lock/hing posts.

Driver's side floor.

Fender lips.

Rear suspension arm mounting pints on the body.

The TR7 is a unibody made of boxed and folded metal/bulkheads. There pretty much isn't any cosmetic rust to be found, it's always structural and especially on a convertible. That car has had a re-spray, right now everything is suspect, the metal under the paint is a mystery. If rust has come on up through the paint and previous prep work, stay away ! ! !

The engines/the carbs can be very finicky, the chokes especially. The water pump practically cannot be replaced without a tear down. The distributor is very touchy as the modules are antiques already. Antique electronics equals eminent failure.

Brakes are small and every TR7 is going to need new bushings and probably a steering rack if it's a hydraulic/power unit.

The five speed trans holds up well against the four cylinder as does the rear end for the most part. Every car will need an exhaust system by now. Tires are getting hard to find. Because they share so many parts with the TR8, many parts are hard to find, highly prized or unobtanium. The repro parts on the market from VB and usual suspects are very poor quality. Not worth buying in most instances.

It will cost as much to restore a TR7 as it does a TR6 or TR8 with absolutely no return on your investment what-so-ever. The enjoyment of an unrestored car is non-existant. The only reason to own a TR7 is as a basis for a TR8 restoration/recreation. Honestly, these things will break your heart AND budget at around the same time.

Luck ! !

TC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk1QaAH-r_o

Great little cars when sorted out. The values are so low that you should buy the nicest one you can find. Metal work and paint alone will surpass the value of the car. The traditional V8 swap to a Rover V8 is way more expensive than you would think. Then basic Rover V8 engine can be had for short money, but all of the other swap pieces are very expensive. Don't buy a TR7 fixer upper unless you are a TR7/8 guy and have experience and spare parts around. Nobody should be afraid to buy a nice enthusiast owned example thou. Great cars when sorted and cared for, but most are just 35 year old neglected, sitting yard art.

I always preferred the coupe.

NOHOME wrote: The best one on the planet probably won't fetch $5000 on the market,

Not unless an idiot owns that one.

Good TR7s are bringing more money now, but I agree with buying the best you can and DO NOT buy a fixer upper.

They are a nice traveling car when sorted. The five speeds are the way to go. The big engine problem was coolant neglect caused the heads (which warped easily) to be difficult to remove. Also the head studs go in at a slight angle, or so I am told. If I had one that the engine went south in, I would probably do a V6 conversion.

I so want a TR8.

I had an 80 model new and it was a nice car. Issues then were head gaskets....several before the 30k mile mark....and brakes. They warped easily. It had great seats though and was a nice tourer. I've driven TR8's since and they are everything the 7 should have been but wasn't. I would hold out for an 8....it's that much better.

I'm getting the itch to convert a decent TR7 coupe to TR8 drive train and go rallycrossing. They seem to have done pretty well back in the day.

needs LSX

VonSmallhausen wrote: The engine is shared with some Saabs (99's I think).

Actually that's partially true - the design is shared and was done by a UK consultancy called Ricardo, but both SAAB and Triumph independently developed it from there. However I think the SAAB engines including the 900 16V and turbo engines have been fitted to Triumph Dolomites and TR7s.

the Saab engine was better....

I didn't think that was worth pointing out...

I did rebuild one of these engines in the guise of a 1972 SAAB 99e 1.85L with Bosch D-Jetronic injection. I have rebuilt 17 engines. This one was more trouble than the other 16 combined. Where do I start? The aluminum head castings are porous. Some are better than others. They get eaten up where they touch the water passages in the block. Changing the coolant every year is recommended. Change it especially if you stick the positive probe of a VOM into the coolant, touch the negative probe to the head, and see more than .1 volt. The aluminum makes a fine anode.as the antifreeze gets older. Also, the head may have a few "worm holes" in the casting so the coolant may bust through under combustion pressure. Ask me how I know. The valve keepers don't always do their job. These engines are notorious for dropping valves. Replace the exhaust valves. Do not bother remachining them. They can't go two duty cycles. Make sure the head has quality hardened valve seats or the valve recession will be ferocious. The head bolt arrangement insures the head will be stuck on. You'll have to remove the head studs. They are angled while the bolts on the other side go on straight. They will make you laugh.

As for the block, the mains are of a "window web" design. The oil returns will be full of casting flash. One of mine was blocked completely. The passages where the oil pump bolts up must be cleaned and smoothed as much as possible.

The "forged" crankshaft was so soft, I scratched it with my fingernail. Use only Vandervell or Glacier bearings if you can find them. One of the rods had a casting void in it so I had to hunt down another rod and re-balance everything. The water pump arrangement is ludicrous. They only last about 30K miles and you risk destroying the water pump drive every time you remove it. Find a Bentley manual for this car and check the procedure. You will laugh. The timing chain and tensioner is another area with humorous potential.

The engine design and materials are really weak. I did everything as right as a human being could make it. Forged Mahle pistons with a beautiful triple-honed wall finish (my machinist used to be my scoutmaster so I got deals). One SAAB guy called it "probably the finest stock rebuild of this engine in America today." I didn't start out with the idea of creating the best 1.85 SAAB engine. that's just what I had to do to complete it.

The motor made a little torque so it climbed hills well. Unfortunately, it only lasted 88K miles when an exhaust valve head parted from the stem and ricocheted around the cylinder a few million times. No there was no contact. It just fell off. The stem was still set in the keepers.

I had to look at ten heads before I found one that looked rebuildable. It wasn't. Unfortunately, I had it rebuilt and no one saw the tiny "worm hole" in the combustion chamber that turned into a gusher and almost hydrauliced the motor. I had to look at a bunch more heads to find a decent one. I did not laugh.

Other than that, the engine was fine. Want to know how long it took before the nightmares ceased? I'll let you know when they stop. I built the engine in 1988.

Good luck.

Jerry

I have a hotted up TR8 on the street and just recently purchased a TR7 historic race car. Not sure if I'll keep the racer as a TR7 or convert to a TR8.

A super cool TR7 conversion is the 16 valve Triumph Dolomite Sprint head which bolts to the TR7 block with a few modifications. You can buy the parts on the U.K. ebay fairly cheaply but the big cost is getting them shipped across the pond. They actually made a handful of 16v TR7's but these were only sold in the U.K.

I love my TR8 and regard them as under valued classics. It makes no sense to me why a TR6 brings in a better price than a TR8. Only around 2400 TR8's were produced compared to about 60,000 TR6. However, I agree with the posts to not put a lot of money into restoring a TR7 as you'll never get your investment back.

mad_machine wrote: the Saab engine was better....

When Saab got the engine, they realized what a E36 M3 it was and spent a good bit of time and money changing enough to make it a good engine.

spitfirebill wrote:

mad_machine wrote: the Saab engine was better....

When Saab got the engine, they realized what a E36 M3 it was and spent a good bit of time and money changing enough to make it a good engine.

Pre-1973, it was straight out of the Dolomite. They only got better after they became more SAAB than Triumph. The water pump was still a POS, though. Unfortunately, there was no way around it until they came up with the H-Series motor for the 900 and moved the pump out of the block.