I did a search, and it came up empty- so I apologize if this has done before.
Weighing my options for my next DD. I want something around $8k, 4 seater, manual, quick (13s) and reliable enough to keep as a DD.
The E60 545/550 BMW was suggested to me. It appears to check all of my boxes on paper. Looking online they appear buyable in that range. I know nothing of BMW V8s so I thought I would ask the hive.
Any major flaws? Are they as good as they appear on paper? Will it bankrupt me?
BMW V8.
Run away!
Would you like my G35S instead?
Reliable $8,000 bmw daily driver ???
Wow
If you want reliable, look a generation older at the E39. They'll still need some blood, sweat and tears to keep them running and happy, but they're pretty reliable when maintained. Almost certainly more reliable than an E60. There's a reason the E39 isn't really any cheaper to buy.
In reply to mr2s2000elise :
I’m not expecting early 90s Toyota reliability, but something that can be kept running with reasonable maintenance.
chaparral said:Would you like my G35S instead?
They’re on my list of potential cars...
Hyundai Genesis sedan's are a pretty solid competitor with e60 v8 cars. Pretty spacious 4 door for my family of 4, high 13 second quarter mile, and as far as I can tell on my 192k mile car it's been pretty reliable. They can be had with a 4.6 or 5.0 v8 with 375 hp to 430 hp respectively. I would stick to the 09-11 cars as they use the ZF 6 speed transmission, the 8 speed Hyundai-made trans in the 2012+ cars seem to have pretty regular issues.
The 528i I had and sold to a cowoorker is approaching 200K miles with just a transmission swap. There area few of the V8's here that are down more then they are up. Reliable is realitive but I would lean more towards something like a LS430 and skip the manual.
How about a 2007-'12 BMW 335i like currently being discussed over on Classic?
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/classic-cars/depreciation-station-2007-12/149843/page1/
300 hp and 13 sec 1/4 mile for less than $10k
Ah, the BMW N62 V8. I had one in a E64 650i. What a delightful engine when it was happy. You will (not may) experience three ghastly repairs. All of these typically happen between 50-100k miles.
1. The coolant transfer pipe - a pipe that runs the length of the intake manifold, under the manifold, with a butt seal on both sides. It will (not may) fail. Sometimes you can catch coolant leaking from the water pump weep hole before it fails catastrophically. There is a replacement two piece pipe that allows for the engine to stay in the car for replacement. There is also a stent repair. I used this one and it wasn't a bad fix, and you get the bonus of replacing the entire cooling system as you reinstall everything.
2. The alternator bracket oil seal - it will (not may) fail, and it's a leak of epic proportions that can't be ignored. Of course the alternator bracket should be a part of the pressurized oiling system, And of course the engine mounts should go through the alternator bracket. So you get to disassemble the front of the engine (alternator, PS) and then unbolt the engine mount (blind impossible to reach bolts with soft inverted torx heads), raise the engine, remove the mount then remove the alternator bracket to replace a $3.00 seal. Dealer rate is $4000 or so, figure $1500 at an Indy shop. For a $3.00 seal.
3. The valve stem seals will (not may) fail. Any car you are looking at, let it idle for a while fully warmed up and then accelerate hard. You'll get a puff of smoke from the tail pipes. There is an AGA Tool to allow this to be done in the car, but if I were to do it again I'd pull the engine. Pros can use this tool and make the job quick, but doing it once, 32 valves are a lot to do in tight confines. This is about $9000 at the dealer, or $2500-$4000 at Indy shops.
After I did all of those it was great until the electronic steering Dynamic Drive started to fail, and then I gave up on it. After about 6 BMW's, this is the car that almost drove me away from the brand. It certainly gave me pause about anything later than an E46 without a warranty. But man does that engine purr when it's rollin.
Most E60s are rolling dumpster fires. An 07-08 G35S 6MT sedan is a much better bet. Way more refined than the 03-06 first-gen cars, doesn't have any oil consumption issues, should run high 12s with tires, bolt-ons and a good tune.
mr2s2000elise said:Reliable $8,000 bmw daily driver ???
Wow
I drive a reliable $800 BMW 60 miles every day. E39 530i. Not my first time having great success with a cheap BMW. It frustrates me that people perpetuate these myths. No, it’s not a Toyota, but if taken care of they are very stout mechanically, with fantastic parts availability.
There's only one e60 to get and that's the m5. Might as well go all the way.
glueguy said:2. The alternator bracket oil seal - it will (not may) fail, and it's a leak of epic proportions that can't be ignored. Of course the alternator bracket should be a part of the pressurized oiling system, And of course the engine mounts should go through the alternator bracket. So you get to disassemble the front of the engine (alternator, PS) and then unbolt the engine mount (blind impossible to reach bolts with soft inverted torx heads), raise the engine, remove the mount then remove the alternator bracket to replace a $3.00 seal. Dealer rate is $4000 or so, figure $1500 at an Indy shop. For a $3.00 seal.
This sort of E36 M3 is why I refuse to own German cars.
My rule-of-thumb calculus for BMWs is that the higher the performance of the variant, the less reliable it will be. If you want reliable, buy the basic version with the fewest gizmos. When you get into the used market it only gets worse, as the maintenance and repair costs on the hi-perf versions are higher, and thus more often get overlooked or ignored by previous owners.
With any BMW, assume it will need roughly 3-5% of the MSRP spent per year in maintenance (less if you DIY, obviously), cumulative. You will be on the hook for anything that hasn't been done. I cannot overemphasize how important service records are on these cars.
Noper right out of there. Any post 1998 V8 BMW (aside from the e90 m3) should be totally and completely ignored as a complete and total waste of a darn good chassis.
Why do you think V8 based 6/7 series with lowish (60k) miles sell routinely for 12-15k? Talk about depreciation!
Now any 6 cylinder based BMW, 330, 335, 530, 528, or 535 are all getting more and more reliable it seems. Saw a 2011 535i (newer and more appealing body style) with 100k miles selling locally yesterday for under 10 grand. THAT IS THE CAR TO BUY IMO.
Olemiss540 said:Noper right out of there. Any post 1998 V8 BMW (aside from the e90 m3) should be totally and completely ignored as a complete and total waste of a darn good chassis.
Why do you think V8 based 6/7 series with lowish (60k) miles sell routinely for 12-15k? Talk about depreciation!
Now any 6 cylinder based BMW, 330, 335, 530, 528, or 535 are all getting more and more reliable it seems. Saw a 2011 535i (newer and more appealing body style) with 100k miles selling locally yesterday for under 10 grand. THAT IS THE CAR TO BUY IMO.
Whoa buddy. The the v8 e39 and e38 went well beyond 1998 and people consider them reliable. The e38 is loved around here.
In reply to yupididit :
agreed, the M62 and M62TU are nice engines. similar coolant transfer tube under intake, and E36 M3ty plastic timing chain guides, but the performance from only 4.4L is pretty tasty. I'd rock another E38 in a heartbeat.
AngryCorvair said:In reply to yupididit :
agreed, the M62 and M62TU are nice engines. similar coolant transfer tube under intake, and E36 M3ty plastic timing chain guides, but the performance from only 4.4L is pretty tasty. I'd rock another E38 in a heartbeat.
And if you want more power, the M62TUB46 from an X5 4.6is drops right in where an M62TUB44 came out of with some computer tuning and not much else for an extra 60hp.
And yes, the E38 is an awesome car. I'm still finishing sorting the post-purchase issues with mine, but in a lot of ways, it's an absolutely great car. And it drives far better than anything its size has any right to.
In reply to Cooper_Tired :
It's for sale in Michigan. 6 speed grey sedan, 109kmiles, your choice of summer or winter wheels and tires, $7500
In reply to chaparral :
PM sent
Lol, as an owner of a relatively current I6 turbo BMW ('13 135i):
The drivetrains are stout, it's the other stuff that ruins you. Because I need a car, I'm about to spend $500 to fix the OFHG leak.
In the summer, I'll have to spend $700 for the valve cover gasket that has started to seep. My indy guy told me if we had to replace the valve cover it would jump to $1400. I'll probably need to drop $500 in a few months for the belt/tensioner/idler pulleys this fall............and this all ignores if the DCT screws up, Getrag doesn't sell replacement parts..........it's a $10k transmission for a $19k car.
I put in the prices since many, who aren't us, will pay a competent indy shop vs doing it themselves.
The car has 32k miles. BMW builds fantastic cars to drive, but it's insane they can't figure out how to make seals not leak like the Exxon Valdez.
I love the car. It's good looking, quick, handles great, is comfortable with a great stereo..............I will never own another modern BMW without a warranty.
z31maniac said:Lol, as an owner of a relatively current I6 turbo BMW ('13 135i):
The drivetrains are stout, it's the other stuff that ruins you. Because I need a car, I'm about to spend $500 to fix the OFHG leak.
In the summer, I'll have to spend $700 for the valve cover gasket that has started to seep. My indy guy told me if we had to replace the valve cover it would jump to $1400. I'll probably need to drop $500 in a few months for the belt/tensioner/idler pulleys this fall............and this all ignores if the DCT screws up, Getrag doesn't sell replacement parts..........it's a $10k transmission for a $19k car.I put in the prices since many, who aren't us, will pay a competent indy shop vs doing it themselves.
The car has 32k miles. BMW builds fantastic cars to drive, but it's insane they can't figure out how to make seals not leak like the Exxon Valdez.
I love the car. It's good looking, quick, handles great, is comfortable with a great stereo..............I will never own another modern BMW without a warranty.
The maintenance costs are high if you're paying someone to do it, but it's not bad at all if you're willing to turn the wrenches yourself. The OFHG is made far easier (no need to pull the intake) if you buy a 1/4" drive E10 universal, which will fit in there and save you hours of work. Valve cover on the turbo cars is definitely work to remove because of the all the DI plumbing, but it's not hard. Don't know about the turbo motors, but on the NA ones you can buy a replacement PCV for ~$30 rather than have to replace the whole cover. Belt/pulleys/tensioner is a little over $100 in parts and an easy job.
As I said above, assume it will need roughly 3-5% of the MSRP spent per year in maintenance, but you can cut that way down by DIYing. Of course, if the DCT goes, well, then you're screwed.
z31maniac said:
I love the car. It's good looking, quick, handles great, is comfortable with a great stereo..............I will never own another modern BMW without a warranty.
I'm pretty convinced that now that cars from 2010 are old enough to be in that depreciation zone, any "complicated" car I would think to purchase (BMW, MB, etc.) will be Carmax with their extended warranty.
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