Let me try asking again: cheap cars that have solid internals and suspension fundamentals?

In reply to Dootz :

Because your list pretty much describes a Miata. It's like saying I want bread, mayo, some ham and NOT A SANDWICH.

I mean..... technically a Ford Aerostar meets these specs...RWD, not German , cheap NOT A MIATA and 3400 ish pounds.

And hey, since we are going down that road how about a late 90s Explorer with a 5.0 and AWD? Weight..... probably more, but the 5.0 has a billion mods available, it's AWD, not german, cheap and most importantly.....NOT A MIATA.

I got my 98 explorer 5.0 with AWD with 123k miles for $600 

Curtis73 said:

 

That's just a number, though.  320 in a Miata IS insane.  320 in a big heavy 3500lb car is kinda meh.

I think you just referred to my SS as "meh."

I don't think I'm offended  

I'm also describing my car, and it is kinda meh.  It does a lot of things well but accelerating is not one of them. Well not until you get up over 60-70 and the weight becomes less of an issue compared to the aero, but who cares about that?

3500 lbs and 320 hp... that's 11 lbs per hp. Many cars with that power to weight ratio are pretty nutty - maybe it just needs a re-gear?

In reply to collinskl1 :

The G35 at 3400 and 300 hp is a hoot to drive. Even with 275s on it, it could frequently use more rear tire. 

That price would get you a fourth generation Camaro, and those seem to check all the boxes.

Enough shopping, and you might find a Nissan 240SX in that price range, but they're getting rare.

Cadillac CTS may be a bit on the heavy side.

collinskl1 said:

3500 lbs and 320 hp... that's 11 lbs per hp. Many cars with that power to weight ratio are pretty nutty - maybe it just needs a re-gear?

True, but I spent too many years in the custom car world.  There was a three month period one time when we didn't have a single car under 750 hp in the shop.  One of them was a blown 540" BBC pushing 1200hp.  Another was a Donovan/Hemi top fuel dragster closer to 1700hp.

My DD right now is a Duramax that puts 938 lb-ft to the wheels.  When I'm building a lighter-weight custom, I often shoot for 5lb/hp

Hi.  I'm Curtis and I'm a torquaholic

In reply to Curtis73 :

My personal high is 1000hp, in two different cars.   They'd accelerate at 120mph the way my car accelerates below 40.  On the other hand, that is because they couldn't hook up on the street below 100-120.

Nothin' accelerated like the 500whp STi in 2nd gear, though.  All wheel drive and a big turbo is stupid quick.  The world got streaky like when the Enterprise went into warp.  No noise, no wheelspin, no sturm OR drang, just acceleration.

300/300 in a heavy car feels meh...

Z32

Although newer than '95 only leaves the '96 model in the US

I would also suggest a G35, it's easier to find at the OP's price point compared to its 350Z brother, and a 96 C4 Corvette at 4K is kinda hard to find. A MR2 technically works, but's it's just as small as a Miata. The RX-8 is probably the best chassis of all my suggestions, but has the worst engine (Renesis). Doing a K24 or J32 engine swap and adding a turbo would fix that, but it's a little costly.

Dootz said:

decent shifter

nothing that a '99 Mustang will satisfy

I haven't driven the '99-'00 models with the T-45, but I thought the shift action on the '01-'04 models with the T-3650 was pretty damned good. Pretty reminiscent of the T-56 in my opinion.

In reply to b13990 :

I have never driven anything with a T56 that felt good.  They felt extremely notchy and stiff, like the shifter was supposed to be two or three times as long in order to be able to crowbar the mechanism into the next gear, but GM decided nah, we don't want the car to look like something Rat Fink would drive.

The best feeling shifters ever were in...  ugh, it begins with an M, let me think a bit

God do T56s shift like poo. I'm struck between saying my favorite Mustang shift is the V6 T5 or the TR3650. T45 is fine. MT80 is fine.

b13990 said:

Dootz said:

decent shifter

nothing that a '99 Mustang will satisfy

I haven't driven the '99-'00 models with the T-45, but I thought the shift action on the '01-'04 models with the T-3650 was pretty damned good. Pretty reminiscent of the T-56 in my opinion.

T-45 with an MGW shifter it's better than working a bolt-action rifle, but you know preconceived notions and all that.

A 99 Cobra would literally be perfect for you, but good flipping luck getting one for $4000.

Just realized that there were a couple more oddities that could possibly fit the bill, but are going to be hard to find and may not quite have depreciated below the $4000 mark yet. But they're getting there. Not 100% sure they're under 3400 lbs, but they're not off by far if they're above that limit.

1. Ford offered a V6 automatic Fusion with an AWD package. Not bad driving dynamics for a a family sedan.

2. Chrysler's Alfa based version of the 200 was offered with the 300 hp Pentastar V6 and all wheel drive.

In reply to MadScientistMatt :

The AWD Fusion/MkZ was a Mazdaspeed6 that you can find parts for.

No manual trans tho.  For that you needed a unicorn Jag X-type, which is on a different chassis entirely but is about the same size. 99% of the manual X types are 2.5 but some rare ones are 3.0.

Hmm. Maybe the T-56 comparison was selling the 3650 short then.

Anyway, I loved it. When I went shopping I told my wife I was thinking of getting an auto because we were both a little sick of shifting the T-5. When I brought it home, I told her, "Hop in and check this E36 M3 out. Screw automatics."

Knurled. said:

No manual trans tho.  For that you needed a unicorn Jag X-type, which is on a different chassis entirely but is about the same size. 99% of the manual X types are 2.5 but some rare ones are 3.0.

Forgot about the X-type. Basically an AWD Contour. Another one that isn't easy to find, but may fit the list of requirements well if you find one.

And the 3.0 is easy enough to find in other Ford products and swap over.

MadScientistMatt said:

Knurled. said:

No manual trans tho.  For that you needed a unicorn Jag X-type, which is on a different chassis entirely but is about the same size. 99% of the manual X types are 2.5 but some rare ones are 3.0.

Forgot about the X-type. Basically an AWD Contour. Another one that isn't easy to find, but may fit the list of requirements well if you find one.

And the 3.0 is easy enough to find in other Ford products and swap over.

I have a Jag X-Type 3.0 5 speed.  It's fine but no powerhouse and the handling is equally fine but not thrilling.  

I didn't read all of this thread but did we get a reason "why" we're writing off all things German?  After 5 Miatai I'm pretty well set that my next fun car will be a cheap beemer.  

BoxheadTim said:

Actually with decent engine management you can boost at 10.8:1 compression engine, but I don't know how well an LS would take it. Both S2000s and ND Miatas have higher compression ratios than that, and people do run aftermarket turbos on those.

Then again, unless you go drag racing, I don't really see the point in adding boost to something like a 'vette on the cheap.

Doesn't mean I disagree with you, Curtis - far from it.

Yep, S2000 is 11:1, the BRZ is 12.5:1, the ND is 13:1.

Mr_Clutch42 said:

 a 96 C4 Corvette at 4K is kinda hard to find

Well, a quick search on FB marketplace found this within 100 miles of me https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/236797613994555/

yeah, its a 95 and not a 96, but they are out there and thats a local spot search, not watching the market for a few weeks or months or going any distance to find.