Let's discuss the "if you can lock the wheels the brakes have enough power myth"

Tom1200 said:

(I'm odd in that I like the rears to lock a fraction before the front).

Why is this? That's very strange. Usually brakes are tuned to have the fronts lock up before the rears for safety reasons - it's safer to plow a bit with locked fronts than to initiate a sick drift unintentionally with locked rears. Theoretically an ideal braking setup for maximum braking power would have a 50/50 chance of locking the fronts or rears first, and some dedicated autocross cars are set up this way since they don't drive near other cars and have plenty of paved runoff room to work with.

So there are valid reasons to run a traditional front-biased or an unbiased setup on a race car, but I can't imagine where a rear-biased setup would make sense other than stunt driving.

So there are valid reasons to run a traditional front-biased or an unbiased setup on a race car, but I can't imagine where a rear-biased setup would make sense other than stunt driving.

I'd imagine it's the same reason why one would want their brakes to 'feel' different even though they 'work fine'. If you want your car to go into a corner with a certain entertaining amount of looseness even if you know it won't make your laptime faster, that's roughly the same thing. Not objectively better, but it makes you feel better while you're doing it. When it comes to racing, that's literally the only reason there is to race at all (to feel good about it).  Same reason i drive half-broken piles of crap over the 'nice' 'normal' cars i could afford. It's just more entertaining! 

For racing I found that "racing pads" are what you need. While street pads work for you due to the larger brake parts used over OEM sized parts, using more aggressive  racing pads will allow you to use "less" pressure to slow the car.  With less effort used to apply the brakes you should be able to approach the point of lock up sooner and be able to control that easier then when you are applying heavy effort with street pads.

Gameboy keeping in mind the rears locking a “fraction” before the fronts, here are my reasons for my preference:

1. As noted when you lock the fronts, you lose the steering and the car will push wide of the apex, usually no more than a foot or so but it leaves few if any options with even slightly locked fronts.

    

2. If the rears lock first on corner entry there are loads of options; easing off the brake pedal, use less steering, preload the throttle to weight the rear (I routinely apply the brake and gas at the same time).

    

3. Sliding into a corner scrubs off a ton of speed, which can be an advantage. This is much harder to do aggressively with a car that locks the fronts first. This is how I manage slide jobs on two cars at once going into 180 degree corners on the first couple of laps. Yes it’s hard on tires, it will not produce the fastest lap time but it will allow you to out brake cars. Said cars cannot get back past, because your car being at a 45 degree angle to theirs makes a very wide road black preventing them from doing the over and under repass, nor can they pick the throttle up earlier.

    

4. The world’s fastest drivers and riders (I road raced bikes first) tend toward oversteer and more rear brake bias. As I am comfortable with both it makes sense to try and capitalize. While it’s extremely difficult to manage this set up lap after lap, my races are only 7-10 laps so it’s doable for an amateur such as myself. If I had to do 40 lap events I’d likely stick it in the gravel trap on lay 37…….or sooner.

There are some caveats to all of the above; you need to be stupidly comfortable with oversteer, you need have the ability modulate the brakes to the enth degree, you need to be comfortable with applying small amounts of throttle while on the brakes. You do not want to be setting up your 1200HP Can Am car for Spa-Francorchamps this way………..unless you want to crash it.

I am indeed stupidly comfortable with oversteer and I’m very good at steering the car with the pedals. On corner entry your foot is always over the gas pedal due to having to heel and toe down shift, most people upon locking the rear wheels ease of the brakes whereas I simply apply a small amount of throttle. This squats the rear without losing the front end and the extra bit of torque makes it harder for the rears to lock. If as a driver you lack the ability to preload the throttle (I’m talking just enough to take the slack out of the ring and pinion) then the way I prefer the brake balance will not work for you. Additionally it’s much easier in cars / vehicles that allow for left foot braking, it only works in very specific situations (maybe two to three places on a particular track) and it’s only meant for corners you slightly overcook and/or for that last of the late brakers pass.

Vigo - I set up my dirt bike in a way that feels better, I don’t ride it faster with the better feeling set up, so your comments hold true there but when it comes to the race cars all I care about is will it be either faster or will it be more consistent (meaning faster over a set of laps).

@jimbbski while having not completely shot myself in the foot by being cheap I do think I’ve left a bit on the table.