Let's Get Back to Cars: MR2 Content

I just read through the craziness over in the off topic form, so getting back to cars seems like the thing to do.  This weekend I saw a nice looking MR2 Spider at a used car lot, so of course I stopped to look.  It was beautiful and only 36k miles.  The asking price, $17k.  To quote another site, that's crack pipe stuff.  But it did indeed look like brand new.  I was in my Boxster and one thing that stuck me though, was how well they have aged.  I used to think they looked strange and were a cheap Porsche knockoff, but now, I think they look pretty decent, even side by side.  Are MR2 Spiders really worth that kind of money?  Are they next to go up in price?  Are they much better options than a Boxster given the P car's appetite for wallet reducing?

There are a lot better cars for $17k.

Now if it was a 94-95Turbo with 36K miles, for $17K, I would ask you where it is, and run over there with cash, given how they are appreciating. 

I think that price is a little high. I think they are an overlooked gem of a car, although they do have a few niggling little issues that need to be watched. I'd love to grab one, just don't have the room currently.

Unsung heroes for sure. 

I should also point out that its a 2005 model, which I believe was a smaller production run.  Didn't they have a factory lsd also?

At least some do. Lsd makes a big difference in these cars and is a pain in the ass to install because transaxle. 

Hated them when they first came out, primarily because they were (and still are) so overshadowed by the SW20 MR2.  Now, after 20 years, I think they're really cool on their own merits.

Very high spread in price ranges, and it's still possible to get a great deal on one.  This is another car that is going to appreciate soon.  You can buy a top shelf example for less money than it will cost to replace a M96 engine in a Porsche 996/986.

Biggest issue they had(have) is that they cost more than a Miata.  Toyota Tax is real.  

Tyler H (Forum Supporter) said:

Biggest issue they had(have) is that they cost more than a Miata.  Toyota Tax is real.  

They are also better than a Miata, stock against stock. Yeah, I said it. I also own a Miata and have driven quite a few, so that statement has weight.

NickD said:

They are also better than a Miata, stock against stock. Yeah, I said it. I also own a Miata and have driven quite a few, so that statement has weight.

Yup as a long time Miata owner (all generations), wholeheartedly agree 100% with your statement.

I remember the knock out drag out fight about the hate on the Spyders on Miata.net back in the day when they were new. Of course, the Solstice twins got the same hate back then as well. 

Tyler H (Forum Supporter) said:

Hated them when they first came out, primarily because they were (and still are) so overshadowed by the SW20 MR2. 

Hated them then, hate them now. Can't change ugly.

mr2s2000elise said:

Tyler H (Forum Supporter) said:

Hated them when they first came out, primarily because they were (and still are) so overshadowed by the SW20 MR2. 

Hated them then, hate them now. Can't change ugly.

Hey, them's fightin' words.  I love the SW20 MR2, including their looks.  They weren't as much of a go-kart as the AW11...almost like comparing the NA/NB Miata to the NC.  However, they were great cars. 

The last generation MR2, in my opinion, just wasn't well received.  As noted here, I also think it was just overshadowed by the Miata at the time.  I've had a ton of MR2s and Miata, but never the MR2 Spyder.  I think $17k is super steep for one, no matter how nice of a condition it's in.  But for the right price, I'd love to have one in my driveway.

mr2s2000elise said:

NickD said:

They are also better than a Miata, stock against stock. Yeah, I said it. I also own a Miata and have driven quite a few, so that statement has weight.

Yup as a long time Miata owner (all generations), wholeheartedly agree 100% with your statement.

I remember the knock out drag out fight about the hate on the Spyders on Miata.net back in the day when they were new. Of course, the Solstice twins got the same hate back then as well. 

The Solstice is trash, I've driven enough those to come to that conclusion. But the Spyder, mmmm. I co-drove one at an autocross after my Miata shredded the supercharger/power steering belt the day before and I couldn't source a replacement. Few cars have wormed their way into my head like that thing. I still check Craigslist and Marketplace for them with regularity, even though I have no room for a third car. I drove a relatively stock Miata a few years back at another autocross, after a PPF bolt fell out of mine on the drive, and haaaated it. But that E/S MR-S I could totally live with.

Riding in Carbon's mildly gutted, turbocharged MR-S as he drifted the entire Lime Rock autocross track was also an eye-opening experience as well.

The third-gen MR-S was absolutely overshadowed by the Miata once you could get one with a factory turbo; it doesn't help the only storage space you can get is if you remove the spare tire up front and the small space behind the seats. But good god, journalists like Farrah have called it one of the best driving cars ever made and he's right. 

I too look for super-cheap ones and I've been quietly sad when I find the cheap ones are all in Florida. There are guys who are popping the 2GR-FE V6 into them and the ~270whp turns them into animals.

Klayfish said:

mr2s2000elise said:

Tyler H (Forum Supporter) said:

Hated them when they first came out, primarily because they were (and still are) so overshadowed by the SW20 MR2. 

Hated them then, hate them now. Can't change ugly.

Hey, them's fightin' words.  I love the SW20 MR2, including their looks.  They weren't as much of a go-kart as the AW11...almost like comparing the NA/NB Miata to the NC.  However, they were great cars. 

The last generation MR2, in my opinion, just wasn't well received.  As noted here, I also think it was just overshadowed by the Miata at the time.  I've had a ton of MR2s and Miata, but never the MR2 Spyder.  I think $17k is super steep for one, no matter how nice of a condition it's in.  But for the right price, I'd love to have one in my driveway.

I'm pretty sure mr2s2000elise meant that the MRS was ugly, given that he's like the last original owner of an SW20 MR2 left on the planet.  

I've owned Miatas and MR2s and I agree he MRS is a 'better' car in a lot of ways, other than being ubiquitous, affordable, and having unlimited modification potential like a Miata.   

In reply to Tyler H (Forum Supporter) :

Ahh. I misread.  As much as I like the MR-S, I can't say I'm in love with their looks.  Not sure I'd say I hate it, but it doesn't flow very well, IMO.

MR2S -- yes, ugly.  Also super impractical because there's no luggage space, it's way worse than even a Miata.  That's not a huge concern now as a toy car, but when they were new (and priced as new) that was a big deal.

I think what really killed them, though, was that Toyota only shipped them with the 140 hp motor.  Lots of people held off on buying them because it was obvious that the 180 hp motor out of the Celica GTS was coming next year... except it didn't.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

MR2S -- yes, ugly.  Also super impractical because there's no luggage space, it's way worse than even a Miata.  That's not a huge concern now as a toy car, but when they were new (and priced as new) that was a big deal.

I think what really killed them, though, was that Toyota only shipped them with the 140 hp motor.  Lots of people held off on buying them because it was obvious that the 180 hp motor out of the Celica GTS was coming next year... except it didn't.

 

Did anyone at Toyota ever go on record as to why those things never came with the 2ZZ-GE engine? That was a way too obvious engine choice - and it never happened. They're fun cars, but another 40 hp would have been appreciated.

Another problem they seemed to suffer from was questionable marketing. Toyota tried to pitch these to younger buyers, apparently failing to realize that most younger buyers have trouble affording one new car while the Spyder pretty much required having a second car.

Here is the car in question :2005 MR2 Spider.  I would be a lot more interested in say $8k.  

MadScientistMatt said:

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

MR2S -- yes, ugly.  Also super impractical because there's no luggage space, it's way worse than even a Miata.  That's not a huge concern now as a toy car, but when they were new (and priced as new) that was a big deal.

I think what really killed them, though, was that Toyota only shipped them with the 140 hp motor.  Lots of people held off on buying them because it was obvious that the 180 hp motor out of the Celica GTS was coming next year... except it didn't.

 

Did anyone at Toyota ever go on record as to why those things never came with the 2ZZ-GE engine? That was a way too obvious engine choice - and it never happened. They're fun cars, but another 40 hp would have been appreciated.

Another problem they seemed to suffer from was questionable marketing. Toyota tried to pitch these to younger buyers, apparently failing to realize that most younger buyers have trouble affording one new car while the Spyder pretty much required having a second car.

I think that's one of those Catch-22 deals: People didn't buy the 140hp version because they thought the 180hp version was coming, Toyota didn't build the 180hp version because people didn't buy the 140hp version.

The disintegrating cats have to be mentioned.

That said, I'd love one. 

Make mine with the 2ZZ and a body kit, please.

wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) (Forum Supporter) said:

The disintegrating cats have to be mentioned.

That said, I'd love one. 

Make mine with the 2ZZ and a body kit, please.

 

Cool looking car there, but did that really start out as an MR2 Spyder? Unless the entire body was swapped, I'm not seeing anything that looks original.

Back when I was selling new toyotas, the MR-S came out, The owner told us salesmen that we needed to take the car around the block so we knew what we were selling. So happily, I did. I wanted one immediately but never got one, instead I got the 01 Corolla that I still have.

The neat anecdotal story that goes with this is that the owner of the dealership where I worked told me that Toyota came up with the tub for the MR-S and sold it to Porsche for their Boxter, then did more development on it and dropped the MR-S into dealerships. This guy was no bullE36 M3ter, and was the same guy who told me about the upcoming 86 chassis that came out in 2013 back in 2001. That just made me think I should travel back up there and buy those guys a beer. They've probably retired by now.

Everyone talks about how slow a stock one is but ive seen stock ones run 14.9, that's as fast as a dc2 type r, no one complains about them being slow. The reason is that the chassis handles power so well that they feel underpowered. There are turbo 2gr ones doin trackdays and hillclimbs that look pretty buttoned down. That chassis won jgtc300 class too dont forget. Watch some best motoring vids of the trial one kickin ass with not much power. 

In reply to mainlandboy :

The windshield is all that's left. It's cool, because the panels bolt on (door skins bond on old doors).

I am an MR2 fan. I have owned all three and LOVED my MR-S. The SW20 is my least favorite. Mine was N/A but even though it was a pretty cream puff car, was nearly as sharp as either my MK1 or MK3 cars. The storage situation is really, really bad but for a back road car it was great. Much faster than people think. A 2zz swapped car would be great. 

I don't have any input on this one though... My MR-S was crashed before I had it, had the precats explode (check this if you buy one), had a newish engine. Still loved it even though it was a pile. 

NickD said:

The Solstice is trash, I've driven enough those to come to that conclusion.

Now that's just nasty! 

Experiences will vary!