Alternately, hide all the muffling and stuff under the car and do some sort of silly mini-bosozoku exit type thing on the side somewhere? Maybe even some nice rainbow-y tubing?
Alternately, hide all the muffling and stuff under the car and do some sort of silly mini-bosozoku exit type thing on the side somewhere? Maybe even some nice rainbow-y tubing?
Build size for turbo, i.e., 3 inches will do for all the power you will make with (turbo) 2J. Avoid all mufflers with baffles; avoid all forms of glasspack. Use straight-through design with holes (like Borla), not with angular perforations (like the terrible glasspack I used to resonate on my BMW). Aim for smooth flow. Know that it will be loud until you properly muffle with turbo.
On that note, Borla XS is nice: quiet at idle, but you definitely know when the gas pedal is on (sometimes too much). If you need a listen, I have Borlas on two cars with V8s (one with turbo) . . .
In reply to pirate :
them spiral mufflers kill HP. If your looking for compact, quiet(ish) for the size and excellent flow rate, look into the Flowmaster HP2. I personally witnessed dyno testing where a moderate v8 lost like 30hp with spirals. Ive seen similar results online as well.
Magnaflow products are acceptable value, but if you want top notch gear with nice shiny stainless steel, look to these guys Solo Performance. You can contact them with specific questions or special orders and they are very responsive.
https://shop-solo-performance.com/en/
They have several muffler series that you can spec by dimension
https://shop-solo-performance.com/en/11-muffler-series
as well as a line of resonators that you can use as mufflers in a wide range of sizes and pipe diameters
In reply to wspohn :
do yourself a favor and look inside a Solo muffler. Absolute garbage. I wouldnt even recomend them on derby cars
The 2JZGTE that I swapped into an 86 cutlass sounded real good (low and mello) with just a large 18" resonator and 3" stainless pipe all the way out the rear.
I don't know why more people don't use resonators...IMO they fix all the raspy high pitch annoying noise and cut the peak decibel too.
In your case with an NA 2JZ it will be different. Figure out what will fix/work for you and if it's not quite what you want later then add a resonator. If possible adding some length before going to the laker style muffler with U bends. I've seen some pretty creative exhaust routing in corvette fenders that had full size mufflers and then fender dumped.
Okay now I'm hung up on 304 vs 409, and 2.5" vs 3". The lake-style header cone I was going to fab from 3" tube, cone'd down to the 1.5" Cyl 1 primary. But if I have 3" coming off the side of it, 3" won't join well to it because the cone won't be full 3" by then. Another concern about 3" is ground clearance. 2.5" tube will be flush with the lowest point of the frame and body. 3" will hang about 1/2" lower than the frame and will guarantee scraping the exhaust. But maybe it's better to scrape the exhaust instead of the frame? Also, the cat I have uses a 2.5" flange, but I can always open that up.
Then of course the power argument. For N/A, 2.5 is fine. But once it's turbo'd and pushing maybe 350hp, a single 2.5" seems restrictive. At the same time though, if I want to race and make "big" power, I can just un-cap the header for max flow and peak hooligan-ness. Realistically how much power would I be sacrificing while cruising with the header capped and the exhaust routed through 2.5"? I am leaning 2.5", but would love to hear input.
Some of the mufflers I'm finding are 409 instead of 304 stainless. The Toyota catalytic converter I wish to use is also probably 409, since that's pretty much the industry standard. The lake-style header will of course be 304, but I don't see why the rest of it should be. This is obviously not a wet-weather daily driver.
To better illustrate the problem, I made this diagram about 4 years ago.. Except muffler will probably be near the axle instead of under the cab.
I CANNOT do what this hot rod, because my car is literally too low. It has to be routed between the frame rails from inside the engine bay. Or I can do a side-pipe, but I don't think I want that look combined with the lake header. Or do I?
Is oval or rectangle tubing out of the question for the under floor bits?
In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :
Possibly. It's really just one very tight spot under the trans cross-member where I could "flatten" some 3" tube into an oval. Still pretty tight under the cab though.
I got nothing to add other than I put a header on a 85 Rx7 followed by a 24 inch resonator (just a big cherry bomb) the strait pipes out to a set of Anza split tips. It sounded like a British roadster up to about 3k. Then transformed in to something that would melt ear drums. It sounded like one of the imsa cars Mazda ran. It was a hoot in u derground parking garages.
so in short I recommend one of these. :-)
I also think they look cool
I like the Borla mufflers on my Cougar. I think the Spintech mufflers are pretty cool, available in a variety of materials, don't use stuffing, and are made in a variety of sizes. They also do oval tubing and mufflers with oval inlets/outlets.
304 vs 409
409 is OEM grade, whats found on most modern cars. It still contains iron so it still eventually rusts, for that reason, some manufacturers use aluminized coated 409 to keep a nicer appearance for the rear exposed bits ( mopar rwds like Chargers, pick up trucks, etc) and leave the front half raw 409.
The best part about 409 that its marginally more expensive then aluminized steel, so a substantial life upgrade for a reasonable price. Its easy to work with and mandrel bend ( i have probably mandrel bent more miles of tubing in my life then some of you drive in a year ). If the car is fair weather the tubing just turns gold with heat, and even purple if the sizing is right and the vehicle is driven hard. You can just MIG weld it with steel or SS wire. 409 also TIG welds well, and when done autogenous or "fused", it welds very similar to Titanium funny enough. It doesnt sugar with TIG welding as bad as 304 does without backpurge, so if you want to TIG it, if your dead on with your settings you can still have clean insides. I however still use backpurge to allow the inside to weld properly for extra strength.
304...
304 alone typically doubles parts cost in most cases and for the right reason, it will essentially last forever, and the appearance will stay longer and can be "restored".
Much harder to bend, cut and manipulate. For things to be right, it really needs to be TIG welded and backpurged, however MIG with tri-mix gas and 308 wire will weld it just fine.
If your considering 304, look into Stainless Bros, they are a division of TiCon Industries, and have fantastic products. Now that I ventured on my own and have my little hole in the wall fab shop, all my premium SS jobs feature their product. Always welds so perfect and clean.
If you are considering 409, the shop I used to work for still generally have the best pricing on it, MBS Exhaust.
In reply to malibuguy :
Really great info, thanks! If I'm TIG welding the 304 header parts with 308 filler rod, can I also use the same setup for the 409 parts? Also I don't have a back-purging setup and haven't even considered it until now. Is it really worth getting a dual regulator and attempting to back-purge? I could probably add a tee to mine and buy a second regulator for it, and use aluminum foil and tape.
I'll confirm 409 is easy to weld. I've welded 409 mufflers and tube together as a total novice using a MIG with mild steel flux core wire. No leaks, and surprisingly, the welds seem to have ended up with enough stainless mixed in to not rust all that much.
The setup I was running in my I6 e30 were cheap ebay SS headers to small universal cat, then a long (32"?) Cherry bomb after the cat, and just straight tube after that. I was very happy with the sound, and would get compliments on it from some of the local rallyx crew. I stopped right after the axle with the intent of adding a small muffler exiting at the bumper, but ended up never feeling the need to add it. It was loud, but reasonable for cruising a neighborhood during the day. You could start there, see how it sounds, then add muffler if desired.
For the lake header dump, maybe stick one (two?) of the yoshi's on the end like Chris suggested. The contrast fits with the overall aesthetic. Go find the brunton bmw i6 build on the forum with the motorcycle mufflers for inspiration if that's appealing at all. That thing is awesome.
Edit:
Thread: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/brunton-stalker-m-spec-bmw-n52/149440/page4/
If the muffler is lower than the frame, it won't do much, if anything, to protect the frame from scraping. It will scrape and get pushed up until the frame hits.
at least I've never seen a hot rod exhaust system strong enough to support a car!
308 is a great rod for anything with chromium or nickel in it. I used it to join 304 v bands to 409 exhaust on my truck with no issues.
I think backpurging is just a good way to run up your argon bill. Solar flux is a cheap alternative but I would say screw it unless you plan on looking at the inside of your exhaust a lot.
Blitz Nur-Spec R muffler sounds amazing with a 2jz.
maschinenbau said:In reply to malibuguy :
Really great info, thanks! If I'm TIG welding the 304 header parts with 308 filler rod, can I also use the same setup for the 409 parts? Also I don't have a back-purging setup and haven't even considered it until now. Is it really worth getting a dual regulator and attempting to back-purge? I could probably add a tee to mine and buy a second regulator for it, and use aluminum foil and tape.
308 is exactly what you need for 304.
Your "suppose" to use 309 filler for anything mixed and 409. However Ive used both. And most of the time I am more likely to have 308 on hand then 309.
My dual flow meter was like $95 and works very well. And its important...the welds are stronger and the flow is smoother. I dont blow thru Argon either, if you are chewing thru Argon your settings are wrong.
A big bottle will last me 2 big jobs and maybe some miscellaneous jobs easy.
I will definitely recommend looking into a gas diffuser lense for your torch. They really make a difference. Furick and ToxicFab make excellent products and their is others.
In reply to malibuguy :
Thanks again! I think I'll invest in the diffuser lenses and dual flow regulator, since my gauges are pretty busted up anyway.
In reply to maschinenbau :
https://usaweld.com/products/htp-america-dual-outlet-flowmeter-w-gas-purge?_pos=2&_sid=392d47f48&_ss=r
that is the exact flowmeter I have, guess it went up $5
In case you all are wondering, I went with 3" 16ga 304 for the header cone, which I will split down the middle to weld into a cone and join the 1.5" primaries to. The cone will have a 3-bolt flange with a spiffy cast aluminum bolt-on cap from Speedway. The rest basically follows the diagram above. From the side of the cone a 2.5" 18ga 304 branch will turn down to the vertical cat near the firewall, connected via 2-bolt flanges and gaskets before and after. After the cat, it will turn rearward, flex pipe, then continue straight back to the bed area to the muffler. I chose this 4" OD 2.5" ID perforated straight-through muffler from AP Exhaust. After the muffler, I'm going under the axle and out the back. This the most I've ever spent on any exhaust, and I still have to actually build it.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/APH-XS0426
And here's what showed up. Looks to be very similar to a Magnaflow perforated tube "straight-through" design, just less shiny and much less $$$. Good call Gumby!
its all pumped out of the same plant in china as Flowmaster FlowFX, CherryBomb Salute, Jones MaxFlow, and a few others. Performance bargins really, and the fiberglass sounds better then the rockwool in Magnaflow.
In reply to maschinenbau :
How much does that muffler weigh?
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