Lets talk 4g63t

These engines have always had a love hate relationship with me. I've had some run great, I've had some that refused to cooperate. Last time I messed with one, I was college aged and likely did more damage than good working on them. I'd like to think in 10 years I've learned how to work on things a bit better and value OEM parts.

Since I'm project car free now, and one isn't likely in the cards anytime soon, I've thought about building a budget, friendly 4g63t (90-99 format) on an engine stand in the garage and actually learn engine building.

What's the best budget setup to make reasonable power? 2.4 bottom end with 2g head and a Holset? Any other ideas or input to parts to use? I'm very open to suggestions and ideas.

dont know much about them but i do know a holset hx35 is the go to cheap big turbo for them

4g63 engines are great. There are many different visions on the best way to build.

If I were you I'd try to find a 6 bolt engine and rebuild it with 100% stock components except ARP hardware where appropriate (Head, rods, exhaust).

a 4g63 engine can hold 400-500 whp on a stock build.

I have a 1g Talon that made 606awhp on a stock bottom end. If anyone is doing that math that is about 750hp at the crank

I give it less than 10 posts before the ubiquitous "crank walk" pic shows up.

My buddy's 1g eclipse runs 9s, that's cool in my book.

sesto elemento wrote: My buddy's 1g eclipse runs 9s, that's cool in my book.

Mine too.

I have a 97 Eclipse with a blown head gasket in my yard right now, so this thread interests me. The engine will get rebuilt and/or replaced sometime this year. In regards to the original post, my experience with engines leads me to believe it's more about having the right tools and a good place to work in than anything else. Rebuilding an engine while holding down a full time job takes a little time, so it's good to have a clean space where you can be organized while assembling.

Appleseed wrote: I give it less than 10 posts before the ubiquitous "crank walk" pic shows up.

You can't buy parts for Saabs either.

NordicSaab wrote: 4g63 engines are great. There are many different visions on the best way to build. If I were you I'd try to find a 6 bolt engine and rebuild it with 100% stock components except ARP hardware where appropriate (Head, rods, exhaust). a 4g63 engine can hold 400-500 whp on a stock build. I have a 1g Talon that made 606awhp on a stock bottom end. If anyone is doing that math that is about 750hp at the crank

Good advice. Thanks. I've heard to never ever polish a dsm crank. Know if there's troof to that?

I've also noticed a stock complete engine pulls a premium these days. Back in the late 2000s they seemed cheaper.

Appleseed wrote: I give it less than 10 posts before the ubiquitous "crank walk" pic shows up.

Remember, if it happens in a 4G63 it is bad and we make fun of it. If it happens in a Mopar or Mazda engine, it's just something that happens, so what.

The problem for me with the 4G63 is that Mitsubishi apparently heard of the concept of good electrical/electronic design and decided to have nothing to do with it. The engine can be good or bad or indifferent, but the electricals that support the engine are atrocious. And the bodies are flimsy and heavy. And Mitsubishi has the worst case of bracketitis in design that has ever existed so the cars are generally a nightmare to work on.

Back when, the combo was 1g bottom end, 2g head, holset..hx35 or so. That was after 20gs and the like.

Scottah wrote:

NordicSaab wrote: 4g63 engines are great. There are many different visions on the best way to build. If I were you I'd try to find a 6 bolt engine and rebuild it with 100% stock components except ARP hardware where appropriate (Head, rods, exhaust). a 4g63 engine can hold 400-500 whp on a stock build. I have a 1g Talon that made 606awhp on a stock bottom end. If anyone is doing that math that is about 750hp at the crank

Good advice. Thanks. I've heard to never ever polish a dsm crank. Know if there's troof to that? I've also noticed a stock complete engine pulls a premium these days. Back in the late 2000s they seemed cheaper.

The cranks are nitrate treated and if you polish them you must retreat(big $$$).

Generally, if the crank is scored it is junk. The good new is many aftermarket companies produce cranks.

Idk about the cost if engines. I have x2 spares in my garage right now and I paid less than $300 each for the long block.

As far as some of the other posts... these cars are not known for their track prowless. The engine is the only reason IMHO to own a dsm.

I've never had a problem with crank walk, but I only use 6 bolt motors which makes that a non issue.

I have also never had an issue with the electrics. The CAS sometimes gets a bad reputation for being finicky. But, that is b/c people don't just replace them for a new one because they are expensive.

What are your goals? There are numerous options, and many ways to make power. You can do it with the engine, with the turbo, or any combo in between. How are you going to use the car, and what car? What kind of fuel is available to you? Do you have any emmisions testing?

You can make 400hp for cheap with a stock a engine and a largish turbo with supporting intake, exhaust, and fuel system improvements. Or you could build the engine with higher compression, cams, intake manifold, and a smaller turbo to get the same peak power but a wider powerband. A built 2.0 can rev to 9k+. Or build a 2.3 or 2.4 stroker. Big turbo to win drag races, smaller turbo to win tractor pulls.

Improperly installed timing belts are the main concern. Always do the Tbelt first thing, use quality parts, and don't skip any steps. Most problems were caused by mechanics skipping steps to save time- usually the waiting 15 minutes before measuring the tensioner part (or not measuring it at all.) The factory long block is incredibly stout, the only real potential weak spot is the balance shaft bearings. While not common, they can go bad, and take the engine with them. Most builders eliminate the balance shafts to eliminate a potential weak point and free up some power. I like them myself, the 2.0 is a very smooth engine with them. Crankwalk is way overblown, and doesn't apply to most of the 4G63's. Only '95 and '96 motors had the thrust bearing issue, and only a fraction of them. It's also not likely that many of the bad motors survived 20 years.

Everyone wants the 90-92 6 bolt motors due to the strong bottom end. But the 7 bolt motors are far from weak. They also make more power mod for mod if you aren't going crazy, and will handle 300+ HP all day without trouble. They are also cheap, because everyone wants 6 bolts. I picked up a 7 bolt for free recently. It's also more closely related to the EVO engines, and I believe many parts are interchangeable. Just be aware that only '93-'94 motors have engine mount bosses on the block if you are swapping to another car. Note- the change is listed as mid '92, so there are theoretically '92's with 7 bolts out there. I've never seen one, I don't think it was many.

I've seen lots of high mileage 4G63's make big power on stock motors. It seems like everything you do makes a noticeable gain. That engine has ruined me for modding cars. If I can't add 30hp with Home Depot or Pick N Pull parts, I don't bother.

My favorite combo is he stock long block with a 16G and supporting mods. You can daily drive, track, autocross, rally cross, and drag race that setup for cheap, with (better than) factory reliability.

As far as some of the other posts... these cars are not known for their track prowless. The engine is the only reason IMHO to own a dsm.

I think more accurately, people have forgetten about their track prowess because they are much more often found on a drag strip. The 1G cars are smaller, lighter, two door versions of a homologated WRC rally car. The 2G's are a little heavier, but have an excellent suspension design. Together, they dominated the SCCA world challenge for 7 years in a row. And they did it in AWD turbo, FWD turbo, and FWD N/A configurations, so it was not just the engine or AWD.

Personally, I've spent lots of time on track, at autocross, and at rally crosses. Set up right and driven correctly, they can more than hold their own in the twisty bits.

Good stuff in here.

Let's say I'm going to rebuild a stock 2.0 engine. How would I go about learning the proper techniques and practices? Plasti gauge? Checking other tolerances and other end play? Properly seating rings? Is this stuff specific or is it mostly generic?

In reply to Scottah :

The 4G63 is like the AK47 of engines. You can treat it poorly and throw it together with junkyard parts and it will still be powerful. I've seen lots of builds where the engine never saw the inside of a machine shop (sometimes the short block never left the car) with good results. They aren't picky engines. That said, you should use good engine building techniques like any other engine and you will be rewarded for it. A propery built 4G63 can make more power on a smaller turbo than a sloppy engine on a large turbo. In contrast to the Subaru EJ25 that I'm building, where the slightest imperfection is sure to lead to a quick demise according to those in the know.

Anyone recommend a good how to book for building 4-cylinder engines or maybe a how to book on the 4g63?

In reply to Scottah :

This is a very good book...

4G63 book

Boost_Crazy wrote: In reply to Scottah : This is a very good book... 4G63 book

This is the 4g63 bible. Some stuff is dated, but overall it is a great platform of knowledge.

Big top ring gaps. Bigger second ring gaps.

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

I just purchased a evo 5 I wanted to get your opinion on a set up I am not looking to exceed 500hp. What would you recommend as the cheapest option. 
 

thank you

Ed

In reply to EdwardO :

I wouldn't try to go the cheapest way to 500hp. How about trying for the most amount of power you can afford while leaving room in your mods for more power (like a fuel setup that can support more power). 

Yes, 4g63 can make cheap power but from my experience (400hp-600hp dsm/gvr4 builds), doing it right is the best way. My biggest money savers were buying parts from people who bought quality parts for their builds that they never got to install because of money or time. The stuff was brand new just never installed and you get them at a deep discount because they spent thousands of dollars for it to just sit. 

In reply to yupididit :

The cheapest way costs a lot of money up front.  Cutting corners is the expensive way, isn't it?

Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to Scottah :

This is a very good book...

4G63 book

Knowing this is n old thread I'll still ask . . . Is this book applicable to N/A 4G63s too? The Eclipse is high on my IMCA Sport Compact want/need list. 

Scottah said:

NordicSaab wrote: 4g63 engines are great. There are many different visions on the best way to build. If I were you I'd try to find a 6 bolt engine and rebuild it with 100% stock components except ARP hardware where appropriate (Head, rods, exhaust). a 4g63 engine can hold 400-500 whp on a stock build. I have a 1g Talon that made 606awhp on a stock bottom end. If anyone is doing that math that is about 750hp at the crank

Good advice. Thanks. I've heard to never ever polish a dsm crank. Know if there's troof to that?

I've also noticed a stock complete engine pulls a premium these days. Back in the late 2000s they seemed cheaper.

Mitsubishi licensed the engine out to Hyundai and Kia in the 90s and was used in USA cars until 2009-2010 by all 3 manufacturers; not to sound like a jerk, but you just gotta look a little harder.

I would never build an engine with plastiguage. I understand checking crank thrust and bearing clearances can be a pain in the hootus, but those gauges are no replacement for true measurements.