Lets Talk Hot Hatchs

I do like the way these look

I quite like these too

Jaynen wrote: There a nice red mk2 GTI at autocross two times ago. Might not have been the fastest but looked like one of the most fun cars out there too

One of the most fun cars I ever had was a GL that had GTI suspension bits underneath. Sure it only had 105hp but that just meant it wouldn't frag transmissions constantly, and really, more power would have just highlighted front-drive's deficiencies.

That seems to be the trick, really. Make the car light enough that you don't need a lot of power.

Yeah he had stock 16v engine I think exhaust, and was three wheeling all over, sounded great and just looked fun (was faster than my NA stock miata)

How about a Focus ZX3? It certainly fits the "slow car fast" idea. Get the SVT suspension setup for a couple hundred bucks and it'll be even more fun, especially on the 15" wheels that came on the base model and the sedans.

In reply to G8MikeGXP:

http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/cto/3890089336.html

NMNA but cheap!

G8MikeGXP wrote: How about a Focus ZX3? It certainly fits the "slow car fast" idea. Get the SVT suspension setup for a couple hundred bucks and it'll be even more fun, especially on the 15" wheels that came on the base model and the sedans.

For that matter the SVT itself is pretty understated and a great little car

impulsive wrote: Colt/Summit/Mirage

Ohhhhhhh I forgot about those!!!

In reply to Jaynen:

I had one for a couple of years, fun as hell to drive but things started to fall apart and I trader her off. Not necessarily important things falling apart but I was ready to move on and it was an excuse.

Zomby Woof wrote: I quite like these too

I lusted after a Yaris just last week. It was red, lowered, had black mesh alloys with a polished lip and the rear windows were nearly blacked-out with dark tint.

It was so tasty I didn't even recognize it at first.

Jaynen wrote:

G8MikeGXP wrote: How about a Focus ZX3? It certainly fits the "slow car fast" idea. Get the SVT suspension setup for a couple hundred bucks and it'll be even more fun, especially on the 15" wheels that came on the base model and the sedans.

For that matter the SVT itself is pretty understated and a great little car

I have had mine for 7 years now. I love about it except for the the premium gas requirement and poor gas mileage. Since mine is black, it doesn't get much attention at all. While I don't always care for the black paint, It does blend very well with the privacy tint on the rear glass. The back seat is surprisingly roomy.

I've looked at the Yaris as well. Problem is, it's not very mechanically different from a 2001 Echo. The automobile has improved a lot in the past 12 years. Why is Toyota still making what is essentially a 12-year-old car?

oldtin wrote:

mad_machine wrote: BMW 318ti fits the bill also

Living with mine - I'd call it a warm hatch that's an S50/M50 away from being a hot hatch

I can only count the number of times I wanted more power on both fingers.. at most, it needs another 40.. but honestly, even with the LSD mine had.. I could still spin the rear wheels on a hard start (at least until I put the starspecs on) and I found it's handling far superior to most anything out there

EvanR wrote: I've looked at the Yaris as well. Problem is, it's not very mechanically different from a 2001 Echo. The automobile has improved a lot in the past 12 years. Why is Toyota still making what is essentially a 12-year-old car?

Has it really? This is something I've been thinking about lately. I went and compared my 99 corolla(Prizm) to a new one, its still the same car right down to emissions and fuel economy, the biggest difference is it comes with 400 extra lbs of uneeded gismos and airbags (plus a touch of power to compensate) and looks like crap. I bet it isnt screwed together as well either.

Kenny_McCormic wrote:

EvanR wrote: I've looked at the Yaris as well. Problem is, it's not very mechanically different from a 2001 Echo. The automobile has improved a lot in the past 12 years. Why is Toyota still making what is essentially a 12-year-old car?

Has it really? This is something I've been thinking about lately. I went and compared my 99 corolla(Prizm) to a new one, its still the same car right down to emissions and fuel economy, the biggest difference is it comes with 400 extra lbs of uneeded gismos and airbags (plus a touch of power to compensate) and looks like crap. I bet it isnt screwed together as well either.

Okay, let me try another way...

If I wanted what is essentially a 12-year-old car, why buy new?

I've looked at the Yaris as well. Problem is, it's not very mechanically different from a 2001 Echo. The automobile has improved a lot in the past 12 years. Why is Toyota still making what is essentially a 12-year-old car?

The only problem about that is paying more money for it, so just dont. Buy an Echo (this is me agreeing with you).

Has it really? This is something I've been thinking about lately. I went and compared my 99 corolla(Prizm) to a new one, its still the same car right down to emissions and fuel economy,

It more or less comes down to lack of adequate regulation. You could almost say the same thing about fuel economy going back into the mid-80s. The fact that CAFE standards werent changed for so long let companies get away with some truly lazy business practices. The manufacturers that sold primarily inefficient and outmoded designs to somewhat ignorant American consumers are the same ones that required government bailouts when oil prices spiked, while all the foreign manufacturers (who didnt base their entire profitability off selling inefficient cars) were able to weather the storm. A little bit of government ass-kicking and CAFE raising and a few years later and all the domestic OEMs are profitably selling 40mpg highway cars and american consumers think this is the bomb berkeleying diggity, not realizing that everyone else has expected and received that for a long time, and the only reason we had to bail out our capitalist comrades in the auto industry was because we DIDNT raise CAFE earlier.

I am kinda confused by the Yugo and Yaris being mentioned in a thread on hot hatches cause they just aren't.

The grand daddy of the hot hatch market.

my Accent SE. I dont think I would ever really venture to say its a hot hatch though. Its slow as berkeley. Very little aftermarket support for the enthusiast minded driver. If you want a subcompact with aftermarket availability, buy japanese.

I guess its fun enough to drive. Its reliable and simple to work on. So theres that.

I loved my mk2 Golfs and GTI's. A bullet proof and cheap swap for them is an ABA 2.0 8V out of a mk3. Not a ton of power, 115hp, but torquey and the cars are light. Add a chip/cam and exhaust and you have a very utilitarian hot hatch.

That said, as much as I LOVED my 2.0 '88 Golf, attending Honda trackdays, I drove my brains out and still couldn't hang with the Integras or swapped Civic hatches. Still fun trying though.

Mitchell wrote:

Jaynen wrote:

G8MikeGXP wrote: How about a Focus ZX3? It certainly fits the "slow car fast" idea. Get the SVT suspension setup for a couple hundred bucks and it'll be even more fun, especially on the 15" wheels that came on the base model and the sedans.

For that matter the SVT itself is pretty understated and a great little car

I have had mine for 7 years now. I love about it except for the the premium gas requirement and poor gas mileage. Since mine is black, it doesn't get much attention at all. While I don't always care for the black paint, It does blend very well with the privacy tint on the rear glass. The back seat is surprisingly roomy.

Since I know one could get the Focus sedan with the 2.3l and the manual (my parents got one)- can one find a Focus with that engine? Just about as powerful as the SVT ZTEC, no premium, and IIRC it got good milage for them.

Not sure if they were ever made, since it was a major distraction from the SVT.

mndsm wrote: [URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mndsm/media/IMAG0215-1.jpg.html][/URL] This gives you a better idea of how it sits. Right menacing, if you ask me.

Adding a front mount intercooler (black, no shiny aluminum) and a stock hood to a Mazdaspeed 3 is a great way to make a steathly Q-Ship. The hood scoop is such a visual giveaway, without it you can easily slip under the radar.

As for the OP question, the Civic is more fun than you can imagine. If you have never driven or worked on one, it is really something every gearhead should do. And a 88-91 with a B16 or a turbo is something everyone should experience. Tons of fun in a great package.

I really like the 1st gen Integras and 3rd gen Civics. I see the 3rd gen civic hatch as a modern mini. One with a DOHC ZC swap on carbs would be a ripsnorty good fun street car.

alfadriver wrote:

Mitchell wrote:

Jaynen wrote:

G8MikeGXP wrote: How about a Focus ZX3? It certainly fits the "slow car fast" idea. Get the SVT suspension setup for a couple hundred bucks and it'll be even more fun, especially on the 15" wheels that came on the base model and the sedans.

For that matter the SVT itself is pretty understated and a great little car

I have had mine for 7 years now. I love about it except for the the premium gas requirement and poor gas mileage. Since mine is black, it doesn't get much attention at all. While I don't always care for the black paint, It does blend very well with the privacy tint on the rear glass. The back seat is surprisingly roomy.

Since I know one could get the Focus sedan with the 2.3l and the manual (my parents got one)- can one find a Focus with that engine? Just about as powerful as the SVT ZTEC, no premium, and IIRC it got good milage for them. Not sure if they were ever made, since it was a major distraction from the SVT.

The duratec 2.3 was definitely available as a hatch and manual transmission at least out here in California because it was the "PZEV" emission special model. Us SVT owners were jealous of how much easy horsepower it made. Easily could eclipse the SVT. But the SVT had the nicer interior by a long shot. 2003 was the year for california and a couple other states, 2004 it was available everywhere

93EXCivic wrote: I am kinda confused by the Yugo and Yaris being mentioned in a thread on hot hatches cause they just aren't. The grand daddy of the hot hatch market.

Not a hatch but it should have been!

I really like the 1st gen Integras and 3rd gen Civics. I see the 3rd gen civic hatch as a modern mini. One with a DOHC ZC swap on carbs would be a ripsnorty good fun street car.

Ive been keeping an eye out for both of these for a while now. I live in the 7th largest city in USA where rust is non-existent and they are STILL almost impossible to find.

93EXCivic wrote: I am kinda confused by the Yugo and Yaris being mentioned in a thread on hot hatches cause they just aren't. The grand daddy of the hot hatch market.

Most of what is mentioned is not, but at least they're hatches.