Let's Talk MGB-GT's...

Kreb wrote: Given that they have almost identical wheelbases, and the MGB is body-on-frame, has anyone tried transplanting the entire driveline/suspension off of a Miata into one of these? It'd require big honking flares, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

That was the original plan that then evolved into the Molvo P1800 ES. I really wanted a hardtop Miata.

Would be an easy project if you were willing to keep the Miata drivetrain.

I would do it with a roadster since the Miata tank in the stock position would not be as weird and it is a lot of effort to shift if anywhere else.

Reason for NOT doing it? It would be an amazing MGB, but not as good as a stock Miata.

In reply to MoCounselor:

That is too funny.... I had a 67 MGB roadster that my family also named "Christine". Car tried to kill me many times but did not succeed until I killed it going up Braddock Mountain with no oil pressure

NOHOME wrote: In my humble estimation, this is the pinnacle of MGB GT Build: (Going to guess near 100k went into this one) http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/BV82016-TheCars.htm

Sponsored by Arby's? "We Got the Meats"

I Miss my 69...

Don't like Oversize wheels/ wider is OK.a ford 289 or 302 fits nicely.

NOHOME wrote:

Kreb wrote: Given that they have almost identical wheelbases, and the MGB is body-on-frame, has anyone tried transplanting the entire driveline/suspension off of a Miata into one of these? It'd require big honking flares, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

That was the original plan that then evolved into the Molvo P1800 ES. I really wanted a hardtop Miata. Would be an easy project if you were willing to keep the Miata drivetrain. I would do it with a roadster since the Miata tank in the stock position would not be as weird and it is a lot of effort to shift if anywhere else. Reason for NOT doing it? It would be an amazing MGB, but not as good as a stock Miata.

Easy compared to your Molvo, anyhow Someone got started on a transplant of Miata subframes into a GT for the Challenge. Pictures!. I looked at buying the car when I started my build.

My car was originally supposed to have front and rear Miata subframes. In the front, I realized there was no reason to go with the subframe when I could just duplicate the suspension geometry and save the weight/packaging of the subframe. In the rear, I decided to keep it simple (!) and keep a live axle. I kinda wish I hadn't at this point, and some day it may go to IRS.

Dan's build was well documented and nicely done, and I used some of it as a guide for my own work. I also went my own way on other areas, but only after looking at how Dan's car was built.

Wait a minute....Just checked your profile and this just wont jibe with MG ownership:

Occupation: Mental Health Counselor

On a more serious note, and to answer the original question:

I have had mine for 39 years, so there must be something about them.

First and foremost, I really like the style of the GT.

The GT can be used as a real car as long as you are good with the vibration and harshness of a 1960's car.

The drive-trains are reliable and up to the job, but much like the unionized country they were built in, they will never sound happy doing the job.

If you can swing it, the coil-over 4 link is the way to go in the rear. Stock suspension up front with new kingpin bushings is fine.

They get a bit warm in the summer

Beware of rust. If you don't know how to look, ask someone who does.

The OD gearbox makes it usable on the highway.

Parts are cheap. I mean that in every sense of the word.

Strong down-to-earth community for group session gatherings or technical advice.

They will never be an "Investment" so if you are happy with a "hobby" you are good to go. Buy a restored one take care of it five years later you should be able to sell for whatever price you bought it for.

In reply to NOHOME:

What better way to learn "Crazy" than to dive in head first?

I also have an affinity for BGT's. One nice thing about them is they are more accepting of engine/trans swaps than other Euro cars of the era. A V8 will drop in without too much difficulty. The dark green one posted earlier is owned by Dan Masters of Advance Autowire fame. SBF/5 spd swap car.

In reply to MoCounselor: Well that will work for sure. I was amazed at how much I could get that thing. It was pretty awesome and this thread is making me want one again!

Just thought I'd jump in and offer more MGB/GT love. I've got my Miata-swapped one, a more or less stock one, and always have some in the shop. You can watch us work on our customer's Miata-swapped restomod GT in the Eclectic links already posted and the stories in GRM (more to come). I've worked on or driven just about every engine combination conceivable (stock, hot street, race, supercharged, Miata, Zetec, Pinto, Lotus 907, Rotary, V6, Aluminum V8, 302) and they're all fun if well-executed.

An MGB/GT is a great daily driver, a pretty good long-distance car (reliable, comfortable, fun) especially if it's got an OD or 5 speed, and since they're not worth much, you don't have to worry about mods affecting anything but the smile on your face.

Regarding the Miata suspension swap, I've had several people send me pictures that look like the ones that Keith linked to. I've never seen a finished one. The Miata track width is much wider, the packaging is tricky, and it would take more than just flares to make things look good in the end.

NOHOME's given some excellent points and someone needs to buy his car. He does great work and starting with a well-done car is cheaper and much less hassle.

I just sold mine in November. Sold it on BaT for about 2K less than I expected honestly.

Ha! I often wonder if I went into this field to try to "cure" myself?!

Thanks for all the info, I truly appreciate it! What are the common rust areas to look for on one? I've definitely had my run-ins with it, (purchased a '72 Volvo 142e a little over a year ago as my first classic euro project, but it was far too gone to save. It's currently rotting out in a friend's field,) and I'd like to know what to look for specific to this chassis. Glad to hear that it won't be an investment, as that's not what I'd be looking for one for. SOMEDAY I will either a Lancia Fulvia or a Alfa 2000 GT Veloce with some Alfaholics goodies on it. But, either of those would be more of an "investment" where I see the B-GT being more of a driver to enjoy without worrying about wadding it up, scratching/denting it, etc.

-Ben

NOHOME wrote: Wait a minute....Just checked your profile and this just wont jibe with MG ownership: Occupation: Mental Health Counselor On a more serious note, and to answer the original question: I have had mine for 39 years, so there must be something about them. First and foremost, I really like the style of the GT. The GT can be used as a real car as long as you are good with the vibration and harshness of a 1960's car. The drive-trains are reliable and up to the job, but much like the unionized country they were built in, they will never sound happy doing the job. If you can swing it, the coil-over 4 link is the way to go in the rear. Stock suspension up front with new kingpin bushings is fine. They get a bit warm in the summer Beware of rust. If you don't know how to look, ask someone who does. The OD gearbox makes it usable on the highway. Parts are cheap. I mean that in every sense of the word. Strong down-to-earth community for group session gatherings or technical advice. They will never be an "Investment" so if you are happy with a "hobby" you are good to go. Buy a restored one take care of it five years later you should be able to sell for whatever price you bought it for.

As I don't know a lot about these yet, I'm not sure whether to say "you're welcome" or "I'm sorry."

jh36 wrote: In reply to MoCounselor: Well that will work for sure. I was amazed at how much I could get that thing. It was pretty awesome and this thread is making me want one again!

In reply to MoCounselor:

Those flairs are screaming for a Rover V8 conversion. Not that hard. There are kits available and lots of info online.

Thanks for the input Carl. I'm definitely going to check out your pages on these.

To everyone else, it's awesome to see a community rally around an idea and provide input. I had forgotten how much the GRM crew is all about enjoying our hobby, as opposed to the infighting I see in a lot of other automotive "groups," so thanks for that!

Now, I just need to finish my Volvo 242 project before I can justify to the missus yet ANOTHER project car!

Carl Heideman wrote: Just thought I'd jump in and offer more MGB/GT love. I've got my Miata-swapped one, a more or less stock one, and always have some in the shop. You can watch us work on our customer's Miata-swapped restomod GT in the Eclectic links already posted and the stories in GRM (more to come). I've worked on or driven just about every engine combination conceivable (stock, hot street, race, supercharged, Miata, Zetec, Pinto, Lotus 907, Rotary, V6, Aluminum V8, 302) and they're all fun if well-executed. An MGB/GT is a great daily driver, a pretty good long-distance car (reliable, comfortable, fun) especially if it's got an OD or 5 speed, and since they're not worth much, you don't have to worry about mods affecting anything but the smile on your face. Regarding the Miata suspension swap, I've had several people send me pictures that look like the ones that Keith linked to. I've never seen a finished one. The Miata track width is much wider, the packaging is tricky, and it would take more than just flares to make things look good in the end. NOHOME's given some excellent points and someone needs to buy his car. He does great work and starting with a well-done car is cheaper and much less hassle.

Carl Heideman wrote: Regarding the Miata suspension swap, I've had several people send me pictures that look like the ones that Keith linked to. I've never seen a finished one. The Miata track width is much wider, the packaging is tricky, and it would take more than just flares to make things look good in the end.

Carl, my car (the black one with the Golf flares) has Miata track width. Stock Miata wheels and near-stock tire sizes - I definitely can't go wider without more metal work.

Keith: What flares did you use? Or are those bespoke?

They're steel parts from a Mk1 Golf (aka Rabbit). I had to do a little extra filling at the top, but the rear shape was almost perfect otherwise. Because of my obsession with suspension travel and the wider track, I needed to put them a little further up than on, say, Dan's green car. I looked at the Omni ones he used but I prefer the shape of the Rabbit ones on the MG body.

singleslammer wrote: I remember this car! I swear it has been for sale for 5 years. I think he had 4 GTs at one point. FYI I am up in Columbia.

Apparently MGs are something that people horde. I took my 71 B roadster (no ugly GT for me) to BJs yesterday and as I was loading stuff into the car someone drove up and asked if I knew anyone who was looking to buy a B. "I've got two MGBs, a TR6, and a Spitfire and they've all got to go" he said. I was kinda tempted by the Spit but I have no parking places available. My guess is that all four are rotting away in the guy's backyard and the HOA is getting on his case.

In reply to Claff:

Didn't happen to get his info did you?

For rust, the "dog-leg" panel in front of the rear wheel well. Rocker panels are 3 layers. Rust often starts on the front of the rocker behind the fron fender. Under the stainless trim at the back/bottom of the side rear windows.On bad ones, the cowl panel below the windshield. And of course floors. Bottom half of front fenders and around the headlight buckets. Front fenders are unique to the gt and about 800 for repops. Complete bodies are still available from original tooling.

The green one was about an 80-90k build. It has a red twin that is as nice if not a titch above it. Both have a tubular front subframe. The mg one is crazy heavy and interfers with a 302 without mods. LSxs have been fit, but trans are a bit of an issue - t56 is big. The tube subframe drops about 80 lbs making it about a wash with the mg engine on weight. About the best v8 swap candidate is a 74 also about the hardest to find). 67 and earlier have a narrower trans tunnel making things more involved with trans swaps. The engine bay on a 74 will take a rover v8 with minimal mods ( there was a factory one).

When looking at MGBs, you need to decide if you are looking for a perfect car for a restoration or a car that has been "restored" and you are judging how well that has been done.

First place I look is the pinch weld and what is known as the "castle rail". What do the spotwelds along the pinch weld look like? Are they factory or are they puddle-welds made by the person who restored the car? Original means the sill has never been replaced. A rusty castle rail is a good sign that the car has rust. A rusty castle rail and a fresh painted car is something you want to run away from.

Now go look at the rear wheel openings. With a glove on, run your hand around the inner edge. Does it feel thick? Did it slice the glove open with a ragged rust edge? Look at the spot- welds again; are they factory or repair quality? Are they well done?

Look at the rocker panels. There should be a line at the rear and front just below the door where the rocker meets the rear quarter and the fender at the front. If they are not there run.

Look at the beading at the top of the rear quarter and the front where the fender meets the scuttle. Any rust that gets into that beading is very hard to eliminate.

If the owner claims new floors, make sure they cut out the old ones.

Check the front and rear spring mounts for rust.

It the car has quarter panel repairs, look in the trunk to see how well they were done. I like to butt-weld the parts on and make them invisible, but that is too much work for most people. At least get and idea if the were sloppy with the cutting and welding.

Dead give-away that the sills have been done are the spotwelds at the base of the a-pillar that attach to the sill. Very hard to replicate these with a factory look when doing sills so just open the door and have a glance.

Look for wrinkles in the front frame rails right around where they attach to the crossmember. At the rear, look at the framerail at the top of the wheel-well an right inside the trunk panel.

I would stay away from 3 synchro gearboxes unless they have just been rebuilt. The first gear is not synchronized and at best sounds like the box is grinding a load of gravel. They only get worse with age. The 4 synch is bombproof.

In case you want to know how the sill area is designed, and why it rust out so efficiently, I did this sketch several years back that shows how it all goes together or comes apart if need be.

In reply to NOHOME:

As you now know, very similar to 1800 sill construction. It's because I have seen so many poorly restored cars (with crazy asking prices) that I am more keen to restore the rusty car I have - at least with my car I know what is there.

Keith Tanner wrote:

Carl Heideman wrote: Regarding the Miata suspension swap, I've had several people send me pictures that look like the ones that Keith linked to. I've never seen a finished one. The Miata track width is much wider, the packaging is tricky, and it would take more than just flares to make things look good in the end.

Carl, my car (the black one with the Golf flares) has Miata track width. Stock Miata wheels and near-stock tire sizes - I definitely can't go wider without more metal work.

Sorry, I stand corrected...Keith's is the only one I've seen finished. It's been long time since I've read his build thread and for some reason I thought he'd narrowed it a couple of inches. He nailed it and I too like the Golf flares.

NOHOME's rust advice is great. There are quite a few pictures of rust repair on the Eclectic "previous work" page. Not really well organized, but if you search through some of the MGB pages you'll see where they rust and how we fix them: http://www.eclecticmotorworks.com/previous.html
(sorry I can't figure out how to hotlink)

jh36 wrote: I had a '67 and loved it. It was my band car. I could just fit a 4x12 in the back. It would run flawlessly for weeks then fry three sets of points in a day. We called her Christine. I miss her and like you, dream of another one still.

Needs new condenser